TankStellman
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Why we should draft Chris Long
- Thread starter TankStellman
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Ok..., who faced better OTs the past two years... Vernon or C. Long...? I hear the Big Ten has better teams...? Is this true... I am looking for some help... NOT A FIGHT...
RoninFin4
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I posted this in another thread, but here's an argument for Gholston over Chris Long.
Long played 6 games his freshman year http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sco...chrislong.html
Gholston was redshirted then received a medical redshirt after breaking his hand in the 2005 season opener. http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sco...ngholston.html
As far as your breakdown:
Gholston 28 games played, 87 tackles, 30.5 tfl, 22.5 sacks
Long 43 games played, 137 tackles, 43 tfl, 21 sacks
If Gholston playes 15 more games, I think the numbers he posts would be equal to or greater than Chris Long. Let's not forget that Long's had football tuteledge since what, the age of 4, while Gholston has only played DE for 2 years and 2 games after originally play LB and G in HS.
Long only had one great season, his senior year, while comparing his junior campaign against Gholston's redshirt sophomore year you get these #'s:
Gholston 13 games played, 49 tackles, 15 tfl, 8.5 sacks
Long 12 games played, 57 tackles, 12 tfl, 4.0 sacks
Pretty comparable numbers both years, especially that redshirt sophomore campaign for Gholston who didn't start several games and whose defense was designed to funnel plays to James Laurinaitis and Marcus Freeman, where as Chris Long was moved around to feature his abilities all over the field; yet the numbers are pretty comparable. I couldn't find pass breakups - I'm not sure if they're even kept well for DE's, but you might be right Long has him beat there, but I do know, I forget which poster broke it down on FH, but Gholston only had 4 completions in his coverage zones in his redshirt soph. and junior campaigns, none of which were converted for a first down.
I guess the point I'm making here is that everyone knows that Chris Long is an intense dude with a great motor and that Vernon Gholston is labeled "lazy" by some posters, and gets the "incosistent" tag from draftniks. That said, if Long is going balls-to-the-wall all the time and can only put up numbers that are slightly better than Gholston's 2 year career over a 4 season career; imagine what Gholston could do if someone gets him to maximize his potential. That's the value I see in him - he's already acknowledged that he's in the film room quite a bit and is willing to do whatever it takes to get better; something I think Parcells and Co. can get out of him. With Chris Long you know you're getting a dependable player who'll be a solid pro for 10-12 years; with Gholston, if you get him to maximize his potential - he's already a better pure pass-rusher, you're going to get a Pro Bowl guy year-in and year-out a la Shawn Merriman or DeMarcus Ware.
Most people, Al Groh included, compare Chris Long to Mike Vrabel...who would you rather have Mike Vrable or Shawn Merriman/DeMarcus Ware?
Long played 6 games his freshman year http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sco...chrislong.html
Gholston was redshirted then received a medical redshirt after breaking his hand in the 2005 season opener. http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sco...ngholston.html
As far as your breakdown:
Gholston 28 games played, 87 tackles, 30.5 tfl, 22.5 sacks
Long 43 games played, 137 tackles, 43 tfl, 21 sacks
If Gholston playes 15 more games, I think the numbers he posts would be equal to or greater than Chris Long. Let's not forget that Long's had football tuteledge since what, the age of 4, while Gholston has only played DE for 2 years and 2 games after originally play LB and G in HS.
Long only had one great season, his senior year, while comparing his junior campaign against Gholston's redshirt sophomore year you get these #'s:
Gholston 13 games played, 49 tackles, 15 tfl, 8.5 sacks
Long 12 games played, 57 tackles, 12 tfl, 4.0 sacks
Pretty comparable numbers both years, especially that redshirt sophomore campaign for Gholston who didn't start several games and whose defense was designed to funnel plays to James Laurinaitis and Marcus Freeman, where as Chris Long was moved around to feature his abilities all over the field; yet the numbers are pretty comparable. I couldn't find pass breakups - I'm not sure if they're even kept well for DE's, but you might be right Long has him beat there, but I do know, I forget which poster broke it down on FH, but Gholston only had 4 completions in his coverage zones in his redshirt soph. and junior campaigns, none of which were converted for a first down.
I guess the point I'm making here is that everyone knows that Chris Long is an intense dude with a great motor and that Vernon Gholston is labeled "lazy" by some posters, and gets the "incosistent" tag from draftniks. That said, if Long is going balls-to-the-wall all the time and can only put up numbers that are slightly better than Gholston's 2 year career over a 4 season career; imagine what Gholston could do if someone gets him to maximize his potential. That's the value I see in him - he's already acknowledged that he's in the film room quite a bit and is willing to do whatever it takes to get better; something I think Parcells and Co. can get out of him. With Chris Long you know you're getting a dependable player who'll be a solid pro for 10-12 years; with Gholston, if you get him to maximize his potential - he's already a better pure pass-rusher, you're going to get a Pro Bowl guy year-in and year-out a la Shawn Merriman or DeMarcus Ware.
Most people, Al Groh included, compare Chris Long to Mike Vrabel...who would you rather have Mike Vrable or Shawn Merriman/DeMarcus Ware?
Trowa
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Nice post. I'm still for Jake Long over any of the other prospects, and I see Chris Long and Gholston as an either/or situation, but I honestly think that unless we royally screw the pooch on this one that we will get a great player out of this draft for years to come.
SnakeoilSeller
Scout Team
I think if the Fins cannot trade out they have to go with Jake Long. The need for offensive line help is far greater than that of the DE/OLB need. I would go as far as saying our first 2 picks could be O -Line depending who falls out of round 1. (Branden Albert)
Jake Long had insane numbers, like 1 sack his entire senior year (yes it was Gholston) 2 penalties his entire career. He would have been a top 10 pick last year, maybe even OURS, had he come out. As a Junior he was named Big Ten O-Lineman of the Year, beating out Joe Thomas, yet I have heard the "experts" say he is not as good as Thomas. I think that is Bull! I think he could start at Left Tackle from Day One
My fear with Gholston, he could be a workout warrior in a draft that does not have a lot of spectacular talent and that makes him look lots better than he really is.
C. Long, good, solid. Would be a great addition, but in the end Sparano is going to want to pound the football. The pick is Jake Long.
Jake Long had insane numbers, like 1 sack his entire senior year (yes it was Gholston) 2 penalties his entire career. He would have been a top 10 pick last year, maybe even OURS, had he come out. As a Junior he was named Big Ten O-Lineman of the Year, beating out Joe Thomas, yet I have heard the "experts" say he is not as good as Thomas. I think that is Bull! I think he could start at Left Tackle from Day One
My fear with Gholston, he could be a workout warrior in a draft that does not have a lot of spectacular talent and that makes him look lots better than he really is.
C. Long, good, solid. Would be a great addition, but in the end Sparano is going to want to pound the football. The pick is Jake Long.
beck2ginn4TD
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I think that you are forgetting one thing. Chris played 3-4 DE in college. How can you compare Chris's stats with Vernon's when he played that position?
Still lookin...
fishypete
FinHeaven Elite
I have my doubts that neither of them will be taken with the first pick...if the Dolphins trade down...then things could change.
JT#1
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you're forgetting long played 3-4 end. ends in the 3-4's job is to occupy blockers, similar to a DT in a 4-3. TO get double digit sacks as a 3-4 end in one season is remarkable
fishypete
FinHeaven Elite
It would be remarkable if he had done it against good teams...which he didn't.
the problem was some of your evaluations, is yes, virginia only played 3 down lineman, they didnt run a true pro 3-4 style. most of the time long was lined up where a normal 4-3 end of line up.
goofy_dude
Rookie
Not true. I watch most of Virginia games. The first two downs, they play a straight 3-4 defense. Only on obvious passing plays, did Long line up in a 4-3 configurement. Beginning of the season, he was mostly rushing from the right side. Only when teams began to game plan him did he move all around the field. And that was only on obvious passing plays.
goofy_dude
Rookie
These are the complete stats for 2007.
Chris Long. 2007 79 tackles, 19 for a loss, 14 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 10 passes broken up and 1 interception
Vernon Gholston. 2007 37 tackles, 15 1/2 for loss, 14 sacks, 0 forced fumbles, 0 passes broke up and 0 interceptions.
Very impressive numbers considering he played end in a 3-4 configurement. The tackles numbers just jump out.
Chris Long. 2007 79 tackles, 19 for a loss, 14 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 10 passes broken up and 1 interception
Vernon Gholston. 2007 37 tackles, 15 1/2 for loss, 14 sacks, 0 forced fumbles, 0 passes broke up and 0 interceptions.
Very impressive numbers considering he played end in a 3-4 configurement. The tackles numbers just jump out.
your not understanding me, i know most of the time va played with 3 down lineman, and 4 LBs. but most the time, their 3 down lineman were more widespread then a pro style 3-4. spreading long out further towards were a 4-3 end would be.
and thats just the video i can find. as a acc guy, i watched him a whole lot. not saying they ran a wide spread 3-4 every play, but they did it a awful lot. much much much more so then pros do.
RUDEbyallMEANS
Perennial All-Pro
Gholston is much more explosive than Chris Long is on the football field.
I believe that Chris Long ran much better in shorts and a t-shirt than he does on the football field.
I myself, was surprised that Gholston DID NOT post a better number in the short shuttle and 3 cone drill after watching his film.
I was surprised that Chris Long tested as well as he did after watching his games.
I believe that Chris Long ran much better in shorts and a t-shirt than he does on the football field.
I myself, was surprised that Gholston DID NOT post a better number in the short shuttle and 3 cone drill after watching his film.
I was surprised that Chris Long tested as well as he did after watching his games.