Why We're Basement Dwellers | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Why We're Basement Dwellers

Boomer

FinHeaven Elite
Joined
May 5, 2002
Messages
16,585
Reaction score
21
Age
50
Location
London
There is a reason why Miami has languished at and around the foot of the league for the past few years, without a trip to the playoffs since 2001 and the infamous James McKnight 'neck catch'.

The key period for this franchises' malaise came specifically during the period where Dave Wannstedt was head coach and Rick Spielman was GM, or Director of Player Personnel, as he was. It's that period, 2000-2004, where other teams are seeing veterans from those drafts flourish into solid players, sometimes with them, sometimes, in this era of free agency, with other teams, that I'm looking at. And it's the draft where, despite free agency, you build the foundations for your team.

So I thought I'd look at the root cause of our problem and analyse Miami's drafts, against 5 other teams, fairly or unfairly, who have been at the top end of the game for the past few years; the last three Superbowl champions, the Patriots, the Steelers and the Colts, as well as the Seahawks and the Bears, the losers of the last two championship games. Why are they so special, whilst we muddle along in and around the basement? I mean, we all KNOW our drafting has been bad, but just how bad?

The first point is that four out of those five have solidified the QB position and for all Rex Grossman's flaws in the 2nd half of the season, he was two careless picks away from winning a Superbowl. But the QB debate aside, lets look at the drafting and see why that 5 draft period was so bad for us, that we're still trying to recover from it.

Miami:
In the draft, specifically, through that five draft period from 2000 to 2004. Miami drafted 35 players. Only 5 remain on the roster – Chris Chambers, Yeremiah Bell, Vernon Carey, Rex Hadnot and Derrick Pope. And of those 5, only four are starters. And only one of them has been to the Pro Bowl.

Once.

And of that 35, only 14 are still in football. That's just a 40% success rate at staying in the damn league.

To recap:
35 picked, 14 in football = 40%
35 picked, 5 on team = 14%

So consider the most successful team since 2000, the Patriots, three titles and an AFC Champonship during that period. They drafted 44 players from 2000-2004. Now only 12 of those picked remain on the roster, but 30 players are still in the league. And every player, but two, that they drafted between 2002 and 2004, that’s 3 drafts, 22 players, are still on active rosters or practice squads. Those two players are Virginia TB Antwoine Womack and LSU passer Rohan Davey. Davey has bounced around the league and is currently in Arena Ball, whilst Womack was always going to struggle to recover from a bad knee injury at Virginia.

Is it any wonder they’ve won three of the last 5?

And if you break it down and look at how appalling that 2000 draft was – save for future Hall of Famer Tom Brady – and Patrick Pass; that's Adrian Klemm, J.R. Redmond, Greg Randall, Dave Stachelski, Jeff Marriott, Antwan Harris, David Nugent and Casey Tisdale and consider if they’d hit on more of those 8 picks, then that 5 draft period would have been even more special. That's a 28% better average than us on picking players still in football and a 10% better average on keeping players, although the Patriots have, during the Pioli/Belichick era, allowed many players to depart through FA that others would have kept. And they traded one of their 44 players picked for a 1st rounder, (Deion Branch).

To recap:
44 picked, 30 active = 68%
44 picked, 12 on team = 27%

So how about the past 2 Superbowl winners? Let’s start with the Steelers;
They drafted just two more players than Miami, with 37. 25 are still active in the NFL, 13 on the roster. That's 68% of players picked still in football and 35% still on the team, which, like the Pats, is 28% better than Wannstedt and Spielman. And an 18% better hit rate on players still on the roster.

To recap:
37 picked, 25 active = 68%
37 picked, 13 on team = 35%

The team they beat in Superbowl XL, Seattle, drafted a remarkable 47 players. 32 are active, 17 are still on the roster. Again that's 68% in football and 40% still on the roster.

This year's winners, Indianapolis, drafted 39 players over that period, 4 more than Miami. 27 are still active, 17 still on the roster.

To recap:
39 picked, 27 active 69%
39 picked, 17 on roster 44%

And the team they beat, Chicago, drafted 44 players across that 5 draft period. 26 are still playing, 15 are still on the roster. That's 61% of active players and 34% of players stil on the roster.


What's even scarier is that the percentage of players still on the roster would be much higher for all the teams apart from Miami, if they hadn't all lost quality players in free agency;

Patriots; Dan Graham, David Givens, Tully Banta Cain, Branch traded to Seattle.

Indy; Marcus Washington, David Macklin, Rick DeMulling, Larry Tripplett, David Thornton and Steve Scuillo.

Chicago; Anthony Thomas, Mike Gandy, Marc Colombo.

Pittsburgh; Plaxico Burress, Antwaan Randle-el and Chris Hope.

Seattle; Ike Charlton, Koren Robinson, Steve Hutchinson, Ken Lucas, Alex Bannister and Wayne Hunter.

Miami; Travis Minor (3rd string TB), Wade Smith (3rd string OC), Seth McKinney (2nd string OC), Morlon Greenwood (1st string LB).


So it's not like I'm telling you anything new, just telling you just how bad it is and underlining just why we are where we arv with such a poor foundation and why were in such cap hell.

That's what RandyCam is up against.
 
There is a reason why Miami has languished at and around the foot of the league for the past few years, without a trip to the playoffs since 2001 and the infamous James McKnight 'neck catch'.

The key period for this franchises' malaise came specifically during the period where Dave Wannstedt was head coach and Rick Spielman was GM, or Director of Player Personnel, as he was. It's that period, 2000-2004, where other teams are seeing veterans from those drafts flourish into solid players, sometimes with them, sometimes, in this era of free agency, with other teams, that I'm looking at. And it's the draft where, despite free agency, you build the foundations for your team.

So I thought I'd look at the root cause of our problem and analyse Miami's drafts, against 5 other teams, fairly or unfairly, who have been at the top end of the game for the past few years; the last three Superbowl champions, the Patriots, the Steelers and the Colts, as well as the Seahawks and the Bears, the losers of the last two championship games. Why are they so special, whilst we muddle along in and around the basement? I mean, we all KNOW our drafting has been bad, but just how bad?

The first point is that four out of those five have solidified the QB position and for all Rex Grossman's flaws in the 2nd half of the season, he was two careless picks away from winning a Superbowl. But the QB debate aside, lets look at the drafting and see why that 5 draft period was so bad for us, that we're still trying to recover from it.

Miami:
In the draft, specifically, through that five draft period from 2000 to 2004. Miami drafted 35 players. Only six remain on the roster – Chris Chambers, Eddie Moore, Yeremiah Bell, Vernon Carey, Rex Hadnot and Derrick Pope. And of those six, only four are starters. And only one of them has been to the Pro Bowl.

Once.

And of that 35, only 14 are still in football. That's just a 40% success rate at staying in the damn league.

To recap:
35 picked, 14 in football = 40%
35 picked, 6 on team = 17%

So consider the most successful team since 2000, the Patriots, three titles and an AFC Champonship during that period. They drafted 44 players from 2000-2004. Now only 12 of those picked remain on the roster, but 30 players are still in the league. And every player, but two, that they drafted between 2002 and 2004, that’s 3 drafts, 22 players, are still on active rosters or practice squads. Those two players are Virginia TB Antwoine Womack and LSU passer Rohan Davey. Davey has bounced around the league and is currently in Arena Ball, whilst Womack was always going to struggle to recover from a bad knee injury at Virginia.

Is it any wonder they’ve won three of the last 5?

And if you break it down and look at how appalling that 2000 draft was – save for future Hall of Famer Tom Brady – and Patrick Pass; that's Adrian Klemm, J.R. Redmond, Greg Randall, Dave Stachelski, Jeff Marriott, Antwan Harris, David Nugent and Casey Tisdale and consider if they’d hit on more of those 8 picks, then that 5 draft period would have been even more special. That's a 28% better average than us on picking players still in football and a 10% better average on keeping players, although the Patriots have, during the Pioli/Belichick era, allowed many players to depart through FA that others would have kept. And they traded one of their 44 players picked for a 1st rounder, (Deion Branch).

To recap:
44 picked, 30 active = 68%
44 picked, 12 on team = 27%

So how about the past 2 Superbowl winners? Let’s start with the Steelers;
They drafted just two more players than Miami, with 37. 25 are still active in the NFL, 13 on the roster. That's 68% of players picked still in football and 35% still on the team, which, like the Pats, is 28% better than Wannstedt and Spielman. And an 18% better hit rate on players still on the roster.

To recap:
37 picked, 25 active = 68%
37 picked, 13 on team = 35%

The team they beat in Superbowl XL, Seattle, drafted a remarkable 47 players. 32 are active, 17 are still on the roster. Again that's 68% in football and 40% still on the roster.

This year's winners, Indianapolis, drafted 39 players over that period, 4 more than Miami. 27 are still active, 17 still on the roster.

To recap:
39 picked, 27 active 69%
39 picked, 17 on roster 44%

And the team they beat, Chicago, drafted 44 players across that 5 draft period. 26 are still playing, 15 are still on the roster. That's 61% of active players and 34% of players stil on the roster.


What's even scarier is that the percentage of players still on the roster would be much higher for all the teams apart from Miami, if they hadn't all lost quality players in free agency;

Patriots; Dan Graham, David Givens, Tully Banta Cain, Branch traded to Seattle.

Indy; Marcus Washington, David Macklin, Rick DeMulling, Larry Tripplett, David Thornton and Steve Scuillo.

Chicago; Anthony Thomas, Mike Gandy, Marc Colombo.

Pittsburgh; Plaxico Burress, Antwaan Randle-el and Chris Hope.

Seattle; Ike Charlton, Koren Robinson, Steve Hutchinson, Ken Lucas, Alex Bannister and Wayne Hunter.

Miami; Travis Minor (3rd string TB), Wade Smith (3rd string OC), Seth McKinney (2nd string OC), Morlon Greenwood (1st string LB).


So it's not like I'm telling you anything new, just telling you just how bad it is and underlining just why we are where we arv with such a poor foundation and why were in such cap hell.

That's what RandyCam is up against.

Nice work Boomer....
I think Wanny's first two season were 11-5 because of the talent
JJ drafted...
Wanny ruined this team.... We have to dig ourselves out of a huge
pit....
As bad as it seems,this team does have some talent, so hopefully Randy can add to that with some solid drafts.
Good analysis......
 
I have another theory. We dont draft Olinemen in early rounds. Football is won in the trenches especially when you have a 17 week schedule and you have to cosistantly win week to week.


jimma didnt want to draft Oline early. We had a guy at Tackle who fell to us and we passed like everybody else. I believe he is still playing quality tackle in the league for the cowboys, forget his name. Then the brilliant Wannstedt followed the same recipe minus Carey which was Spielmans guy who he traded up one spot for. He sticks and is good. You think we could catch on?

Hopefully, this year, RandyCam will catch on cus this draft is full of Centers, Gaurds, and Tackles who are capable of contributing early.

I was an Olinemen in HS. If your Oline is not good, you wont be good in the end, no matter how many superstars are on your team. You look at the Indy Colts, they have consistancy on the Oline, year after year with guys they draft, not just pick up in FA. They can fill one spot with someone from FA when the rest of the Oline is still in tact. Thats what we need if we are ever going to be any good, aside from settling the QB question.
 
Great Thread Boomer

totally agree

clear.gif


+

spielman_rick_m-1.jpg


=

clear.gif

one big mess


What's a thread without pictures
 
There is a reason why Miami has languished at and around the foot of the league for the past few years, without a trip to the playoffs since 2001 and the infamous James McKnight 'neck catch'.

The key period for this franchises' malaise came specifically during the period where Dave Wannstedt was head coach and Rick Spielman was GM, or Director of Player Personnel, as he was. It's that period, 2000-2004, where other teams are seeing veterans from those drafts flourish into solid players, sometimes with them, sometimes, in this era of free agency, with other teams, that I'm looking at. And it's the draft where, despite free agency, you build the foundations for your team.

So I thought I'd look at the root cause of our problem and analyse Miami's drafts, against 5 other teams, fairly or unfairly, who have been at the top end of the game for the past few years; the last three Superbowl champions, the Patriots, the Steelers and the Colts, as well as the Seahawks and the Bears, the losers of the last two championship games. Why are they so special, whilst we muddle along in and around the basement? I mean, we all KNOW our drafting has been bad, but just how bad?

The first point is that four out of those five have solidified the QB position and for all Rex Grossman's flaws in the 2nd half of the season, he was two careless picks away from winning a Superbowl. But the QB debate aside, lets look at the drafting and see why that 5 draft period was so bad for us, that we're still trying to recover from it.

Miami:
In the draft, specifically, through that five draft period from 2000 to 2004. Miami drafted 35 players. Only 5 remain on the roster – Chris Chambers, Yeremiah Bell, Vernon Carey, Rex Hadnot and Derrick Pope. And of those 5, only four are starters. And only one of them has been to the Pro Bowl.

Once.

And of that 35, only 14 are still in football. That's just a 40% success rate at staying in the damn league.

To recap:
35 picked, 14 in football = 40%
35 picked, 5 on team = 14%

So consider the most successful team since 2000, the Patriots, three titles and an AFC Champonship during that period. They drafted 44 players from 2000-2004. Now only 12 of those picked remain on the roster, but 30 players are still in the league. And every player, but two, that they drafted between 2002 and 2004, that’s 3 drafts, 22 players, are still on active rosters or practice squads. Those two players are Virginia TB Antwoine Womack and LSU passer Rohan Davey. Davey has bounced around the league and is currently in Arena Ball, whilst Womack was always going to struggle to recover from a bad knee injury at Virginia.

Is it any wonder they’ve won three of the last 5?

And if you break it down and look at how appalling that 2000 draft was – save for future Hall of Famer Tom Brady – and Patrick Pass; that's Adrian Klemm, J.R. Redmond, Greg Randall, Dave Stachelski, Jeff Marriott, Antwan Harris, David Nugent and Casey Tisdale and consider if they’d hit on more of those 8 picks, then that 5 draft period would have been even more special. That's a 28% better average than us on picking players still in football and a 10% better average on keeping players, although the Patriots have, during the Pioli/Belichick era, allowed many players to depart through FA that others would have kept. And they traded one of their 44 players picked for a 1st rounder, (Deion Branch).

To recap:
44 picked, 30 active = 68%
44 picked, 12 on team = 27%

So how about the past 2 Superbowl winners? Let’s start with the Steelers;
They drafted just two more players than Miami, with 37. 25 are still active in the NFL, 13 on the roster. That's 68% of players picked still in football and 35% still on the team, which, like the Pats, is 28% better than Wannstedt and Spielman. And an 18% better hit rate on players still on the roster.

To recap:
37 picked, 25 active = 68%
37 picked, 13 on team = 35%

The team they beat in Superbowl XL, Seattle, drafted a remarkable 47 players. 32 are active, 17 are still on the roster. Again that's 68% in football and 40% still on the roster.

This year's winners, Indianapolis, drafted 39 players over that period, 4 more than Miami. 27 are still active, 17 still on the roster.

To recap:
39 picked, 27 active 69%
39 picked, 17 on roster 44%

And the team they beat, Chicago, drafted 44 players across that 5 draft period. 26 are still playing, 15 are still on the roster. That's 61% of active players and 34% of players stil on the roster.


What's even scarier is that the percentage of players still on the roster would be much higher for all the teams apart from Miami, if they hadn't all lost quality players in free agency;

Patriots; Dan Graham, David Givens, Tully Banta Cain, Branch traded to Seattle.

Indy; Marcus Washington, David Macklin, Rick DeMulling, Larry Tripplett, David Thornton and Steve Scuillo.

Chicago; Anthony Thomas, Mike Gandy, Marc Colombo.

Pittsburgh; Plaxico Burress, Antwaan Randle-el and Chris Hope.

Seattle; Ike Charlton, Koren Robinson, Steve Hutchinson, Ken Lucas, Alex Bannister and Wayne Hunter.

Miami; Travis Minor (3rd string TB), Wade Smith (3rd string OC), Seth McKinney (2nd string OC), Morlon Greenwood (1st string LB).


So it's not like I'm telling you anything new, just telling you just how bad it is and underlining just why we are where we arv with such a poor foundation and why were in such cap hell.

That's what RandyCam is up against.

Um Boomer, great post, but you forgot Vernon Carey.
 
Boomer i completely agree with you that this teams struggles can still be traced back to the wannspiel years. The drafting and trading away of picks is still haunting us. It is the major reason why this team was one of the oldest last year, and why we are usually not in the greatest cap situation. Thankfully this regime seems to be trying to gut the roster of older and overpaid players and go with youth. So Boomer I ask you what would your strategy be in the draft. Would you stay pat at 9 and take the best possible player, or do you attempt to trade down and pick up more picks (I know easier said than done)? Or do what I don't agree with and try and move up and take one of the QB's?
 
You know I was thinking about that the other day. When another poster was talking about locking up the Dolphins young talent and that is was one of the mistakes Wannstedt made. But then I was thinking "What young talent did we have to lock up?". So yup they were pretty terrible at drafting. Its amazing that they were able to come up with players like Chambers, McMichael, Bell, and Ogunleye. But I guess even a blind squirrell can find a nut.
 
great post man. i was thinking the same thing the other day just didn't go into the percentages of the success of the dolphins drafts, but thats where teams are built and the dolphins have been drafting poorly ever since they got lucky and marino fell to them in 1983.
 
Neck catch...What ? Can some one remind me.Mc Knight droped soooooo many game changing balls.Help me remember Boomer.

WANSPEIL were morons. They couldnt find a G spot with a map.I hated when they were hired.Man we actually could have done good those years if we just didnt have those idiots.I think they thought we were in high school.



Good riddance wanspiel......Hello CAM,RANDY.


GOOOOO DOLPHINS..#!
 
Very good work Boomer you hit the nail on the head. Man I am glad we don't have those people handling our draft anymore.
I also agree with what finfan54 stated, we haven't put an emphasis on Olinemen in a long time its been like its a last priority. Its also been a long time since we had a dominating Left Tackle (Richmond Webb) and its been even longer since we had a really good center to anchor the line and control the middle of the pocket, (Dwight Stepenson and Jim Langer).
 
Back
Top Bottom