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Worries about the top names

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Ekinger

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I don't know much about Tomlin. What I do know is he spent a lot of time with Herm and Dungy. And though those guys have been successful, I think they are 2 of the most overrated coaches in the league. The third being Bill Cowher.

I know Dungy is an x and o guru but he lacks the fire and mentality to will a win. I think he realises that it's just a game and ultimately the world doesn't stop with a loss. That's a healthy attitude but not an attitude that is going to win you many big games.

I've never understood any of the hype Herm has engendered. He's never really been more than mediocre with any team as far as I'm concerned. If we had gotten him for Saban I would have considered that a lateral move.

With that said, I love the fact that Tomlin is young and one can't argue that the wouldn't have learned a lot of good information spending time with Herm and Dungy despite the fact that they are overrated as head coaches. I think the youth movement in the NFL is healthy. These guys aren't set in their ways and realize that a more fluid style of coaching seems to work the best. One doesn't have to be set in a mode of thinking and being young and learning on the job pretty much prevents that from occurring. Billick has always impressed me in that sense. I think he's always figured that he can get any offense to play well enough to compete with anyone. Therefore, his focus has been putting the best possible talent at D. It's a smart way to think as an offensive minded head coach.

I loved the post that suggested we take Tomlin and Schottenheimer. The Jets offense was serious smoke and mirrors. I think it did the absolute most with the absolute least this year. That's always impressed me and is definitely a page out of the Bellichick book.
 
Ekinger said:
I don't know much about Tomlin. What I do know is he spent a lot of time with Herm and Dungy. And though those guys have been successful, I think they are 2 of the most overrated coaches in the league. The third being Bill Cowher.
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Hopefully others have some more feedback for you, but you lost me at Bill Cowher is overrated. Thats a pretty lame statement considering what he did in Pittsburgh the last 15 years, and he left on his terms. You know, for all the fans that 'hate' on coaches that don't win year after year, shouldn't we credit coaches that do (i.e. Cowher)?
 
Tony Dungy is overrated as a head coach? Really? Exactly who do you think the Fins could hire that will have a better record than the coach with the highest winning percentage in the past 7 years? Dungy has become the winningest coach for 2 franchises now, and is one of only 6 men in NFL history to record 100+ wins in his first 10 years as a HC.
Seifert.
Shula.
Madden.
Dungy.
Gibbs.
Ditka.

That's one overrated list, huh?

Get back to work. :shakeno:
 
Ekinger said:
I don't know much about Tomlin. What I do know is he spent a lot of time with Herm and Dungy. And though those guys have been successful, I think they are 2 of the most overrated coaches in the league. The third being Bill Cowher.

I know Dungy is an x and o guru but he lacks the fire and mentality to will a win. I think he realises that it's just a game and ultimately the world doesn't stop with a loss. That's a healthy attitude but not an attitude that is going to win you many big games.

I've never understood any of the hype Herm has engendered. He's never really been more than mediocre with any team as far as I'm concerned. If we had gotten him for Saban I would have considered that a lateral move.

With that said, I love the fact that Tomlin is young and one can't argue that the wouldn't have learned a lot of good information spending time with Herm and Dungy despite the fact that they are overrated as head coaches. I think the youth movement in the NFL is healthy. These guys aren't set in their ways and realize that a more fluid style of coaching seems to work the best. One doesn't have to be set in a mode of thinking and being young and learning on the job pretty much prevents that from occurring. Billick has always impressed me in that sense. I think he's always figured that he can get any offense to play well enough to compete with anyone. Therefore, his focus has been putting the best possible talent at D. It's a smart way to think as an offensive minded head coach.

I loved the post that suggested we take Tomlin and Schottenheimer. The Jets offense was serious smoke and mirrors. I think it did the absolute most with the absolute least this year. That's always impressed me and is definitely a page out of the Bellichick book.
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Dungy is not overrated. They guy has made the playoffs in every season hes been a coach but maybe two. His teams are good, always good.

As for Cowher being overrated, I don't have any idea of what you are talking about there either.

And just because they coached together doesn't mean they share the same personality.

Mike T. is a brilliant young coach. And hes going to be successful in the NFL one day.
 
i'm not so interested in the fact that tomlin coached with herm edwards. more that he was with monte kiffin and rod marinelli, who IMO are far more knowledgable as football guys.
 
NawlinsBucFan said:
Don't be offended because I speak the truth. and our 'loser' coach has 2 division titles and a Lombardi trophy in his 5 years. I think that deserves one more year to try and turn things around.
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I am not a Gruden fan, but I think the Bucs future is bright. Esp if they can draft Calvin Johnson. They would have Simms coming back, Cadillac, CJ, two young stud linemen in Trueblood and Davin Joseph...maybe a FA linemen and some young draft picks on defese.

Plus, they get Indy's second round draft pick in the Booger trade.

The downside is that Bruce Allen and Gruden have been known to drop the ball occasionally....but if they could hit on this draft, the Bucs and Saints will have a great rivalry for the next few years.
 
I'm not going to get into your opinions on Edwards, Dungy, or Cowher. I will say that I am very intrigued by Schottenheimer. He has gotten the most out of his offense, and I think the philosophy of having an offense that is flexible in its approach week-in-week-out is absolutely brilliant, and straight out of the Charlie Weis/Bill Belichik playbook. I think the hybrid defense that Saban built and Capers honed should still be employed, and now we need an innovative offense to match it.
 
PerfectFinz72 said:
Hopefully others have some more feedback for you, but you lost me at Bill Cowher is overrated. Thats a pretty lame statement considering what he did in Pittsburgh the last 15 years, and he left on his terms. You know, for all the fans that 'hate' on coaches that don't win year after year, shouldn't we credit coaches that do (i.e. Cowher)?
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Bill and Wanny are of the same mold. the only difference is that Bill had great players on his team and Dave didn't.
 
Mike Tomlin if selected it could really change the face of this team especially since he believes in the cover 2. That could mean JT is gone, he has already said he does not want to go back to being an end in the 4-3. It would all depend on his relationship and trust level with capers.
 
Mr772 said:
Mike Tomlin if selected it could really change the face of this team especially since he believes in the cover 2. That could mean JT is gone, he has already said he does not want to go back to being an end in the 4-3. It would all depend on his relationship and trust level with capers.
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he doesn't "believe" in the cover 2 at all. he adjusted his defense to his players with the vikings, which i imagine he'd do in miami.
 
So you wouldn't want Cowher, Dungy, or Edwards? What's the matter, don't like winning? You've got to be kidding, seriously. Try a little research maybe.
 
NawlinsBucFan said:
Tony Dungy is overrated as a head coach? Really? Exactly who do you think the Fins could hire that will have a better record than the coach with the highest winning percentage in the past 7 years? Dungy has become the winningest coach for 2 franchises now, and is one of only 6 men in NFL history to record 100+ wins in his first 10 years as a HC.
Seifert.
Shula.
Madden.
Dungy.
Gibbs.
Ditka.

That's one overrated list, huh?

Get back to work. :shakeno:
Click to expand...

And how many AFC/NFC championships has he been in? How many Superbowls has he been in? How many has he won? Being a great regular season coach makes you a good coach, winning when it counts makes you a great coach.

He's never been able to do that. He's no better than Gruden. Gruden was successful with two separate teams and won a Superbowl. Overall his regular season record isn't great, but he's won a Superbowl. That makes him a good coach. Not great, just good.
 
To be a great coach, you need to be have multiple SB wins and a great playoff record. At least Cowher has a winning record in the playoffs but he's been in 21 playoff games yet only won 12 of them. He's 2 for 6 in AFC championships and 1 for 2 in SBs. Those number prove he's got a problem coaching big games. Anyone that's watched him coach in the big game has more questions about the things that happen than answers.

The SB last year was the worst I've ever seen. Neither team played well. Frankly it didn't surprise me. Cowher hasn't been a great big game coach. Hence he's good.

Dungy is 6-8 as a head coach in the playoffs. That's not even good. Herm Edwards is 2-4.

Tom Coughlin, Jeff Fisher, Tom Flores, Dan Reeves and Andy Reid all have far, far better playoff records and I wouldn't even consider them great. They are very good coaches but not great.

Don't the few of you that write a two sentence response get tired of being put in your place time and time again by me? If you are going to respond, how about using a little intelligence with the response? I know it's a struggle for some of you, but one of you is over 50, you must have some knowledge over those years.
 
Ekinger said:
To be a great coach, you need to be have multiple SB wins and a great playoff record. At least Cowher has a winning record in the playoffs but he's been in 21 playoff games yet only won 12 of them. He's 2 for 6 in AFC championships and 1 for 2 in SBs. Those number prove he's got a problem coaching big games. Anyone that's watched him coach in the big game has more questions about the things that happen than answers.

The SB last year was the worst I've ever seen. Neither team played well. Frankly it didn't surprise me. Cowher hasn't been a great big game coach. Hence he's good.

Dungy is 6-8 as a head coach in the playoffs. That's not even good. Herm Edwards is 2-4.

Tom Coughlin, Jeff Fisher, Tom Flores, Dan Reeves and Andy Reid all have far, far better playoff records and I wouldn't even consider them great. They are very good coaches but not great.

Don't the few of you that write a two sentence response get tired of being put in your place time and time again by me? If you are going to respond, how about using a little intelligence with the response? I know it's a struggle for some of you, but one of you is over 50, you must have some knowledge over those years.
Click to expand...


I agree above that of the coaches Edwards' teams performances in the playoffs leave much to be desired. Dungy is one of the best regular season coaches of this coaching generation. However, he is unable to win the big playoff game to get to the superbowl. Will he forever come up short like Marty S? Don't compare these guys to daddy Mora who is all time worst at 0-6 in playoffs.

As far as Cowher the man won a SB! Once you win the big one past playoff shortcomings are forgiven. Also, look back at some of the AFC championship games he lost too. Twice to the Pats during their recent mini-dynasty (God I hate typing that crapola!) and then to perhaps the best Elway led Bronco team in late '90s. The SD lost in '94 was a meltdown that should never have happened. That is the one clunker on his playoff resuem for sure. Basically Cowher' teams faced some heady competition once they went deep in playoffs and just fell short. Does not take away he is an excellent coach who has been most consistently successfull among all coaches for last decade and a half.
 
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