Wow, the number of additions

[Mile High Fin]

Regarding the point of the thread, you can credit Rick all you want, it won't matter. History will record this as Nick Saban's success if he truly turns this team around. History will reflect that Spielman's negatives far outweighed his positives here in Miami and that he was part of the problem not the solution, no matter how you and few other fans view it.

So you're admitting that Spielman had some positives... :evil:

Funny, you don't give him credit for ANY positives at all.

Not ONE! But you just admitted he had positives.....baffling...

So, tell me, what were his positives that you admit to???

That's the point of this thread:

Rick Spielman did AT LEAST SOME GOOD THINGS...
- Like not put us in cap jail....which he could've done if he wanted.
- Like give us a solid draft in 2004 (having Poole allowed us to cut Surtain)

Tell me, Blue Fin, what are the positives?????? Please elaborate...

I'm eagerly waiting.... :D :D :D

 

[BlueFin]

So you're admitting that Spielman had some positives... :evil:

Funny, you don't give him credit for ANY positives at all.

Not ONE! But you just admitted he had positives.....baffling...

So, tell me, what were his positives that you admit to???

That's the point of this thread:

Rick Spielman did AT LEAST SOME GOOD THINGS...
- Like not put us in cap jail....which he could've done if he wanted.
- Like give us a solid draft in 2004 (having Poole allowed us to cut Surtain)

Tell me, Blue Fin, what are the positives?????? Please elaborate...

I'm eagerly waiting.... :D :D :D

His positives were his work ethic and the few quality players he was involved in bringing here, they were of course far outweighed by the mistakes.

The 2004 draft is far from being graded as solid at this point.

Carey is a major question mark, and considering that we spent a first and fourth on him that only amplifies the fact that he couldn't get on the field last year on a team with such a poor O-line.(perhaps you remember Webb and Simms starting as rookies here under Shula?)

Will Poole has proven nothing yet, just because he was projected to start prior to his injury does not mean he would have or played well.

Bua and Pope are special teamers and backups at best.

Hadnot did start, but considering it was on this pathetic line the jury is still out on him.

I think some of you have forgotten what a solid draft is, much less an excellent draft.

 

[Mile High Fin]

His positives were his work ethic and the few quality players he was involved in bringing here, they were of course far outweighed by the mistakes.

The 2004 draft is far from being graded as solid at this point.

Carey is a major question mark, and considering that we spent a first and fourth on him that only amplifies the fact that he couldn't get on the field last year on a team with such a poor O-line.(perhaps you remember Webb and Simms starting as rookies here under Shula?)

Will Poole has proven nothing yet, just because he was projected to start prior to his injury does not mean he would have or played well.

Bua and Pope are special teamers and backups at best.

Hadnot did start, but considering it was on this pathetic line the jury is still out on him.

I think some of you have forgotten what a solid draft is, much less an excellent draft.

PS - Thank you, RS, also for not putting us in cap jail.......like Titans, etc.

 

[Merman]

We all knew Tim Bowens back was a major problem? Yeah, I agree, once the season started we ALL knew. At the time of the draft it wasn't common knowledge that TimBo was going to miss the whole season. Re-writing history is not going to make it change or convince me that you're right.
Now please, I respect your cap knowledge so, can you show me in detail how we could have kept Surtain and traded Madison?....

Saban "decided to make one bold move and trade Surtain".... Saban was lucky that Rick set him up to make that one "bold" move huh?

Bowens' back problems may not have been common knowledge before the draft but I wrote an article on 12/29/03 “Harsh Cuts†about the coming off-season where I argued what he was worth unless my assessment of his playing potential for the next year was wrong. There was some question of his playing ability for 2004.

As for keeping Surtain instead of Madison:

NOTEBOOK
DE Burnett might quit after 14 seasons
BY ARMANDO SALGUERO
Posted on Tue, Dec. 30, 2003
Madison is scheduled to make $6.3 million in base salary and his cap number for the season is $8.03 million. The Dolphins can lower that number by asking the player to cut his base pay while at the same time guaranteeing a portion of his salary.

Not exactly the same situation as Surtain because he was not in the last year of his contract but there was no attempt to trade Madison.


1.305598*3yrs 2004-2006=$3.917

2.252/6yrs*4yrs 2004-2006=$1.501

Total $5.418 million unamortized bonus on Madison’s contract in 2004 before the pay cut.

If he were released that year before the pay cut or traded there would have been $5.418 million of dead money with $2.612 million cap savings. The renegotiation saved $3 million. Though the future savings of a release or trade would have easily allowed Surtain to redo his contract. If you remember Madison thought or led to believe there was enough savings on his pay cut to keep Surtain for the future. Instead on March 6 Spielman signs Reggie Howard and redoes Surtain’s deal March 9.

As for being lucky to trade Surtain, how can you twist that into being lucky??? Most would prefer to keep the better players on the team until they start to decline. Now who was in decline Madison or Surtain??? How is trading Surtain a defense of Spielman???

I could also go into the Ogunleye trade and tear the hell out of that deal too.

As for Huizenga's instructions to win now: No way that can be twisted into thinking that meant making moves that were not in the team's best long-term interest to win a few games in 2004. Now that is not only rewriting history but distorting it too.

 

[MDFINFAN]

His positives were his work ethic and the few quality players he was involved in bringing here, they were of course far outweighed by the mistakes.

The 2004 draft is far from being graded as solid at this point.

Carey is a major question mark, and considering that we spent a first and fourth on him that only amplifies the fact that he couldn't get on the field last year on a team with such a poor O-line.(perhaps you remember Webb and Simms starting as rookies here under Shula?)

Will Poole has proven nothing yet, just because he was projected to start prior to his injury does not mean he would have or played well.

Bua and Pope are special teamers and backups at best.

Hadnot did start, but considering it was on this pathetic line the jury is still out on him.

I think some of you have forgotten what a solid draft is, much less an excellent draft.

A solid draft is one that most of the draftees make the team and contribute. ..Hmmm, I think last year's draftees did that. Of course the jury is still out on all these players, their only in their 2nd season. But the fact that all except one made the team is very good in it's self, especially when you have a late rounder, (Hadnot), doing a creditable job and getting good comments by the new staff.

There are only 2 1/2 mistakes I'm awhere that ppl said Speilman make; 1. giving up a 4th rounder to move up one spot to get carey. 2. trading the 3rd we got from St. Louis to get Gordon, and 1/2, possible giving Philly the 2nd for AJ who's a question mark in terms of worth at this point. Those are points of arguments and speculation in my humble opinion. The biggest is the giving up the 4th, which I feel has merit. The others don't bother me. Now the good.

Booker and a 3rd.
Good risk money wise to bring in Boston.
AJ--We needed another QB to take over.
Hadnot (Gem so far)
Poole (Was playing well enough last year to allow us to trade surtain)
James (will be anchor of OL)
St. Clair (suprisingly good play)
Welker (best kr\pr we've had in awhile)
Bua (had to have video clip made of his hit, highlighted on espn)
Pope...played solidly while Zach was out. (Only reason he didn't start--Z.Thomas (should we say more??)
S. Morris..(FB talented enough to play HB)
Howard..(Played a lot year one, other part of cb acquisition that allowed us to trade Surtain)
Possibly Carey
Possibly McIntosh, both of the last two we'll know more about this year.
Having the Guts to revamp our OL..thank God, we have have suffer, but we're on the right track in that requards.
Did not overpay for Woody
Did not overpay for Tait
Guy has consistently shown an eye for late round talent, and undrafted talent..i.e Banks, Roundtree, Y. Bell, C. Jenkins..and now Pape possibly.
I'm not going to add the many players I think he had a hand in picking up or recommending to Wanny.
AND MOST OF ALL, he did not leave us in CAP HELL.

His good outshined the bad for sure.

 

[korl68]

PS - Thank you, RS, also for not putting us in cap jail.......like Titans, etc.

When was Rick ever in charge of managing the cap? It was Bryan Wiedmeier and Eddie Jones that managed the cap. And since December the only decisions that have been made have been Saban's with the help of Bryan to see if the moves would fit cap wise.


Look for those of you that have fallen in love with Rick will always view him romantically. Nothing said on here will change that. Dolphin history will view him as only a footnote that was part of the worst Dolphin team in the last 20 years.

 

[BlueFin]

When was Rick ever in charge of managing the cap? It was Bryan Wiedmeier and Eddie Jones that managed the cap. And since December the only decisions that have been made have been Saban's with the help of Bryan to see if the moves would fit cap wise.


Look for those of you that have fallen in love with Rick will always view him romantically. Nothing said on here will change that. Dolphin history will view him as only a footnote that was part of the worst Dolphin team in the last 20 years.

Nuff said!

 

[Mile High Fin]

When was Rick ever in charge of managing the cap?

Since he was made GM........with final say.

It was Bryan Wiedmeier and Eddie Jones that managed the cap. And since December the only decisions that have been made have been Saban's with the help of Bryan to see if the moves would fit cap wise.


Look for those of you that have fallen in love with Rick will always view him romantically. Nothing said on here will change that. Dolphin history will view him as only a footnote that was part of the worst Dolphin team in the last 20 years.

Dude, when will YOU realize that the GM can sign anyone they want???? The cap guy crunches the numbers TO ASSIST THE GM, NOT TO CONTROL THE GM. GM's sign players all the time with bad, long-term cap implications.......that's how they get in cap jail. It's the GM's final say.


THE GM CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS, AS LONG AS HE'S IN COMPLIANCE.
That includes putting us in cap jail if he (the GM) wants to!!!!

Again, for your benefit, the GM has FINAL SAY, not the cap number crunchers. What can't you understand about that???

Here's an analogy to help you:
The CEO of a business can use the advice of the accountant/number cruncher to help decide whether to spend money or not, but regardless of the accountant's advice, it's the CEO's final say...........he can choose to spend wisely, or he can go into debt up to his eyeballs.

Thank you, RS, for using your FINAL SAY to spend wisely!!!!

PS - FYI, I agree with letting RS go. But he deserves SOME credit for what he did right...................and he kept us out of cap jail.

 

[inFINSible]

Bowens' back problems may not have been common knowledge before the draft but I wrote an article on 12/29/03 “Harsh Cuts†about the coming off-season where I argued what he was worth unless my assessment of his playing potential for the next year was wrong. There was some question of his playing ability for 2004.

As for keeping Surtain instead of Madison:



Not exactly the same situation as Surtain because he was not in the last year of his contract but there was no attempt to trade Madison.


1.305598*3yrs 2004-2006=$3.917

2.252/6yrs*4yrs 2004-2006=$1.501

Total $5.418 million unamortized bonus on Madison’s contract in 2004 before the pay cut.

If he were released that year before the pay cut or traded there would have been $5.418 million of dead money with $2.612 million cap savings. The renegotiation saved $3 million. Though the future savings of a release or trade would have easily allowed Surtain to redo his contract. If you remember Madison thought or led to believe there was enough savings on his pay cut to keep Surtain for the future. Instead on March 6 Spielman signs Reggie Howard and redoes Surtain’s deal March 9.

As for being lucky to trade Surtain, how can you twist that into being lucky??? Most would prefer to keep the better players on the team until they start to decline. Now who was in decline Madison or Surtain??? How is trading Surtain a defense of Spielman???

I could also go into the Ogunleye trade and tear the hell out of that deal too.

As for Huizenga's instructions to win now: No way that can be twisted into thinking that meant making moves that were not in the team's best long-term interest to win a few games in 2004. Now that is not only rewriting history but distorting it too.

How is picking up young players on reasonable contracts NOT looking at the long term value? For the umpteenth time, Rick did NOT go out and get stop gap veterans who would have cost the SAME amount of draft picks, he got YOUNG players WITH potential exactly for the the long term benefits. Nobody is twisting anything except you.

And again, New England has lost, what, three pro bowlers in the last 4 years?? It happens, it's a fact of life when a player outgrows his value to the team. Did New england want to lose Damien Woody, Did they want to lose Ty Law, Troy Brown, Lawyer Milloy??? No. But it's only Rick that gets smeared for losing ONE valuable member of our core defense. Please, gimme a break. The time that people are signed and the time that they are due to renew or restructure is intertwined. If Surtain was due to restructure last year and Madision was due this year, we'd be seeing Sam playing somewhere else and we most likely wouldn't have Roth on this team unless you think that Sam would have garnered the same amount of compensation from KC.

It's all a bunch of hits and misses and all I'm trying to say here is that if Rick was as bad as some people want to make him out to be we'd have been in a lot worse shape than what he left us, which wasn't bad at all. He deserves his props for what he did in the most trying circumstances that any GM in the league's history has had to try and overcome. You don't have to agree with that but, you're far from convincing me that it's not true.

 

[MDFINFAN]

When was Rick ever in charge of managing the cap? It was Bryan Wiedmeier and Eddie Jones that managed the cap. And since December the only decisions that have been made have been Saban's with the help of Bryan to see if the moves would fit cap wise.


Look for those of you that have fallen in love with Rick will always view him romantically. Nothing said on here will change that. Dolphin history will view him as only a footnote that was part of the worst Dolphin team in the last 20 years.

Korl, reread some of the posts in this threat, The GM can run a team into cap hell, the cap guys make sure the team is in compliant for that particular year. Not out years..they can only advise the GM, not make him do something.. The GM is in charge.

 

[inFINSible]

When was Rick ever in charge of managing the cap? It was Bryan Wiedmeier and Eddie Jones that managed the cap. And since December the only decisions that have been made have been Saban's with the help of Bryan to see if the moves would fit cap wise.


Look for those of you that have fallen in love with Rick will always view him romantically. Nothing said on here will change that. Dolphin history will view him as only a footnote that was part of the worst Dolphin team in the last 20 years.

And in that sense it's going to be real interesting to see how many of Rick Speilman's player acquisitions play a big role in what everyone thinks is going to be a big turn around under Saban.

 

[DeathStar]

randy mueller is just a player personnel dude with the GM title.

 

[gofins]

Look at all these FA signed...who did the budget to ensure we had that much space?
I thought we panic'd last year.

Seem like there was a plan...

Saban you are benefitting: plus you get a lot of good players from before, we should be competitive this year, and set for a good run next year.

If no one else will, I'll thank him, thanks Speilman.


Miami Dolphins
Unrestricted free agents
Dolphins QB Jason Garrett
S Shawn Wooden
CB Jimmy Wyrick

Restricted free agents
Players re-signed
TE Ed Perry
QB Sage Rosenfels
RB Travis Minor
C Seth McKinney
DT Dario Romero

Players added
LB Donnie Spragan
DE Kevin Carter
DE Vonnie Holliday
S Travares Tillman
QB Gus Frerotte
S Tebucky Jones
OT Stockar McDougle
FB Heath Evans
CB Mario Edwards
WR David Boston
NT Keith Traylor
OG Damion Cook

Players lost
S Sammy Knight (Chiefs)
LB Morlon Greenwood (Texans)
DT Bryan Robinson (Bengals)
CB Pat Surtan (Chiefs)
S A. Freeman (Packers)

I think Spielman did a much better job than what he's given credit for too.

 

[Merman]

How is picking up young players on reasonable contracts NOT looking at the long term value? For the umpteenth time, Rick did NOT go out and get stop gap veterans who would have cost the SAME amount of draft picks, he got YOUNG players WITH potential exactly for the the long term benefits. Nobody is twisting anything except you.

And again, New England has lost, what, three pro bowlers in the last 4 years?? It happens, it's a fact of life when a player outgrows his value to the team. Did New england want to lose Damien Woody, Did they want to lose Ty Law, Troy Brown, Lawyer Milloy??? No. But it's only Rick that gets smeared for losing ONE valuable member of our core defense. Please, gimme a break. The time that people are signed and the time that they are due to renew or restructure is intertwined. If Surtain was due to restructure last year and Madision was due this year, we'd be seeing Sam playing somewhere else and we most likely wouldn't have Roth on this team unless you think that Sam would have garnered the same amount of compensation from KC.

It's all a bunch of hits and misses and all I'm trying to say here is that if Rick was as bad as some people want to make him out to be we'd have been in a lot worse shape than what he left us, which wasn't bad at all. He deserves his props for what he did in the most trying circumstances that any GM in the league's history has had to try and overcome. You don't have to agree with that but, you're far from convincing me that it's not true.

You are the one that kept asking so I told you, so don't get upset.

As for the Patriots check out the situations first before you compare.

As for what you are trying to say just let it go. I and others said in previous posts it's over and it's no use trying to defend Spielman.

 

[PHINATIC13]

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