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X's and O's Guru's: Let fix the run defense

ANUFan

ANUFan

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No more talk of problems! Let's focus on defense specifically the run D.

I'll preface this by saying Washington's run game is a lot more potent than people, at least locally here think. They are going to present problems for teams during the season. With that said onto us...

I gotta say unfortunately they made the biggest gain exploiting our edges.What's the problem there? The ends are too small? The outside LB can't get there in time? Whats the solution?

Chop blocks--What the hell? Really? What can be done to counter this?
 
ANUFan said:
No more talk of problems! Let's focus on defense specifically the run D.

I'll preface this by saying Washington's run game is a lot more potent than people, at least locally here think. They are going to present problems for teams during the season. With that said onto us...

I gotta say unfortunately they made the biggest gain exploiting our edges.What's the problem there? The ends are too small? The outside LB can't get there in time? Whats the solution?

Chop blocks--What the hell? Really? What can be done to counter this?
Click to expand...

Problem is our ends are not good at setting the edge. Wake and Vernon in particular. I think Fede might actually be better than Vernon at setting the edge.

Yes, the LBs have to be able to get to the edges in time, take the right angles, and bring the ball carrier down reliably. Misi is a decent tackler but not very fast. Neither Sheppard nor Vigil is fast. Jenkins is the only fast LB we have. McCain can't get on the field, but even if he does, seems to get washed out by blockers too often. The solution, aside from acquiring better LBs, is to have Jones closer to the box. Problem there is then you're leaving Aikens or Thomas alone over the top.

The counter to chop blocks is to either be athletic enough to leap over them (not likely) or knee the f-ers in the head, as was done to Albert.
 
I agree. if this isn't fixed, the season is done. because it is what doomed us last year. All we did was sign Suh and invest a 2nd round pick on Phillips.
 
by the way, at what point is it Coyle? All you have is the best paid DL in the NFL
 
Tannchise said:
by the way, at what point is it Coyle? All you have is the best paid DL in the NFL
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Coyle takes a lot of this blame. I'm of the opinion, he is too slow to adjust to in game situation. It became very apparent very early what Washington's game plan was. Yet, why did we have DE rushing up the field expecting Cousin to sit back there attempting passes like he's some Brady. At that point they should have be focus on setting the edges anticipating runs going at them.

I for the life of me have NO IDEA what our LBs were doing. If Suh is getting double teamed. Mitchell, Wake and OV are being singled the how in the world aren't you making tackles for losses? Someone honestly please help me understand that?
 
ANUFan said:
Coyle takes a lot of this blame. I'm of the opinion, he is too slow to adjust to in game situation. It became very apparent very early what Washington's game plan was. Yet, why did we have DE rushing up the field expecting Cousin to sit back there attempting passes like he's some Brady. At that point they should have be focus on setting the edges anticipating runs going at them.

I for the life of me have NO IDEA what our LBs were doing. If Suh is getting double teamed. Mitchell, Wake and OV are being singled the how in the world aren't you making tackles for losses? Someone honestly please help me understand that?
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So I just quickly rewatched most of the first half. There weren't many outside runs. Most of the damage was done in between the tackles, so fill from the LBs was the major problem.
That being said, here's an example of an outside run causing us some problems. 7:13 Q2. Play is a 3WR/1TE/1HB toss right to Jones. Dolphins are in nickel, with Jones back and Aikens hanging out near the box shadowing the TE Reed. The LBs are Sheppard (lined up at the left LOS as if he'll blitz) on the left side so basically a non-factor in this this play. Jenkins is lined up in the middle. The run is at Wake...the RT pulls out and the TE Reed absolutely smashes Wake...so right away the edge isn't even close to set. Jenkins pursues behind the pulling RT but his angle is slightly too deep and he's unable to shoestring the runner. The other guy you might have expected to possibly fill in faster would be Aikens, but he doesn't react quickly enough once he sees his man blocking and gets caught up by a WR. Run goes for 7 on 3rd and 1.
 
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Whether by scheme or lack of discipline over-penetration was the main issue that I saw. Wide open lanes with both DTs two yards in the backfield. We want Suh doing that, but you're other DT has to compliment his game. Mitchell did not do that yesterday.
 
3:38 Q2
2 TE set and the play is a run off tackle left Morris. Vernon needs to set the edge...can't get off his block and basically swallowed up by a very good LT. Vigil shoots the wrong gap from his MLB spot (actually takes the G by surprise that he tried to go behind him) and ends up well behind the runner. And Misi, at the SLB spot is easily handled by TE Reed and unable to disengage. Run goes for 10 on 2nd and 6 and it's Suh who makes the tackle jogging down the line (this is the leg to helmet play).
 
Those two plays that I just highlighted above were in large part due to Reed's effectiveness as a blocker, something which he supposedly has gotten better at.
 
oasis said:
Those two plays that I just highlighted above were in large part due to Reed's effectiveness as a blocker, something which he supposedly has gotten better at.
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I have to admit I was very impressed with the TE Reed out there - not only was he too big/strong for our DB's to handle in coverage, he blocked extremely well too. The block on Wake where he sealed him inside (Wake was trying to penetrate the gap the RT vacated) was extremely physical for a guy his size. Definitely one of Skins better players.
 
oasis said:
So I just quickly rewatched most of the first half. There weren't many outside runs. Most of the damage was done in between the tackles, so fill from the LBs was the major problem.
That being said, here's an example of an outside run causing us some problems. 7:13 Q2. Play is a 3WR/1TE/1HB toss right to Jones. Dolphins are in nickel, with Jones back and Aikens hanging out near the box shadowing the TE Reed. The LBs are Sheppard (lined up at the left LOS as if he'll blitz) on the left side so basically a non-factor in this this play. Jenkins is lined up in the middle. The run is at Wake...the RT pulls out and the TE Reed absolutely smashes Wake...so right away the edge isn't even close to set. Jenkins pursues behind the pulling RT but his angle is slightly too deep and he's unable to shoestring the runner. The other guy you might have expected to possibly fill in faster would be Aikens, but he doesn't react quickly enough once he sees his man blocking and gets caught up by a WR. Run goes for 7 on 3rd and 1.
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So basically Wake is wayy to light in the pants. Especially if he's being smashed by a TE?
 
oasis said:
3:38 Q2
2 TE set and the play is a run off tackle left Morris. Vernon needs to set the edge...can't get off his block and basically swallowed up by a very good LT. Vigil shoots the wrong gap from his MLB spot (actually takes the G by surprise that he tried to go behind him) and ends up well behind the runner. And Misi, at the SLB spot is easily handled by TE Reed and unable to disengage. Run goes for 10 on 2nd and 6 and it's Suh who makes the tackle jogging down the line (this is the leg to helmet play).
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This is the second time your mentioning that the TE Reed is owning another one of our players...Jordan Reed is listed at 6-3 237 and was NOT this monster blocking TE at UF. I'm getting pissed...
 
Now take a look at Q4 11:08 and contrast to the Q2 7:12 play above. It is the exact same play as above where Wake got sealed inside by Reed. Pretty much the same 3WR/1TE/1HB formation, with toss right to Morris (instead of Jones). This time the Dolphins (again in nickel) are in a more neutral position with respect to the backers. But the other main difference is this time, Shelby is in at DE instead of Wake. Shelby shoots up and out to where the RT vacates, and Reed is unable to seal him inside. Minimal gain. Textbook defense of this play.
 
oasis said:
Now take a look at Q4 11:08 and contrast to the Q2 7:12 play above. It is the exact same play as above where Wake got sealed inside by Reed. Pretty much the same 3WR/1TE/1HB formation, with toss right to Morris (instead of Jones). This time the Dolphins (again in nickel) are in a more neutral position with respect to the backers. But the other main difference is this time, Shelby is in at DE instead of Wake. Shelby shoots up and out to where the RT vacates, and Reed is unable to seal him inside. Minimal gain.
Click to expand...

I knew Wake was a liability in the run game. But I didn't know he was that bad...
 
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