Thoughts on the OL after the draft | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Thoughts on the OL after the draft

Finswatch said:
It hit me last week how close we were to solidifying the offensive line. I like Chop and would have taken him over Graham Barton, it was close, but I thought that Chop has more potential this season and going forward to help the Dolphins more than Graham Barton. I don't think Grier was/is wrong to prioritize the pass rusher over OL if the edge guy has a similar grade to the OL you're considering but you missed out on a guy who is probably going to be an all-Pro for a decade for the Steelers and you were one pick away,

If we were willing to give up a 2025 third for a great running back (this I have to admit was a luxury pick, as much as I like the player), we should have been willing to do the same to get a great OL who could have played G or T for us.

I believe in drafting the best player at a position of need, and don't feel like we did that with second round pick, Patrick Paul. We needed to get at least 2 players in this draft who could come in and play well this year. Maybe we did that by doubling up on edge players and slot receivers but we still have a hole in the middle of the OL that needs to be fixed in the next few weeks or months.

I would have been great with a RG in round 2 after taking Chop. Pick my guy Haynes from UConn, he plays right away imo. There were other guys available who were potential starters on the IOL. Would have saved us the $5-8 mil we're going to need to pay for van Roten or Risner.

I hope I'm wrong about Patrick Paul and that he gets the coaching he needs to become a viable starter by 2025 but what if he languishes like some of our recent OL day 1 or 2 picks have? I was encouraged by the articles about AJ dedicating himself to improving and becoming mentally and physically ready to play but it took the guy three frickin years and not getting his 5th year option picked up to get his ass in gear. Maybe he and TA become better examples for Paul, I don't know what to believe about our second round pick. Here's what I've read on him in no particular order:

"He doesn't bend well, he's a great athlete who can move, he was poorly coached by Dana Holmgren at Houston, he is a polished pass protector, he's a technical nightmare who relies way too much on size and length. He's inexperienced, he's played a ton of games, he's improved and is dedicated to his craft."

I can't remember reading more conflicting info about a prospect. We can only hope that Butch Barry and the vets can get to work on him and it takes. I have felt forever that Miami picking any OL in rounds 1-3 was usually a waste because we had no idea how to evaluate or develop offensive linemen since Jimmy Johnson left town. I think Butch Barry is the first good OL coach we've had in a long time but we've been hamstrung with a lack of picks and cap space in the past few years, We need Barry to do more with less.

I had an argument in here with a fan who said we should have taken the Duke C, the lower rated UM guard Keegan and the PSU C over Wright. I thought those were crazy suggestions at the time. He mentioned good teams and good drafting teams like KC and Philly drafting multiple OL in every draft. The fan was right esp about Philly that seems to keep adding to a wealth of talent on the OL every year. I don't know how they're going to fit Juergens, Keegan, Steen and all the young talent they have into the lineup but they don't care. Nor does KC who also keeps adding to the OL and took a bad line a few years ago and made it better with FAs and Trey Smith and Humphrey.

I do think the better teams have had better coaching and better scouts when it comes to developing o-line prospects. Maybe that changes with Barry and a full complement of draft picks next year. not sure what the cap situation will be but I could see a need for 2-3 more starters on that line next year. If Paul can play and Brewer is good that number drops to maybe one player but it would be nice to load up on middle round picks like the Eagles do and start selecting more IOL players in the middle rounds.
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I would have loved to draft Nourzad at C… not sure if he’s any good, but he’s my cousin so I would have definitely got some sick “in’s”


zullo1 said:
The OL is as big a mystery as it ever was. If it weren't so sad, it would be comical. Year after year the offensive line is what's talked about and the Fins never truly fix it. They keep putting band-aids in place and hoping and praying. From the starters to the backups the OL is perpetually in a state of flux. It's 2024 and the LT is a lock to miss multiple games, there's no starting LG identified, the new Center is an unknown, and there's no starting RG identified. Ironically, the much-maligned AJ grabbed hold of the RT spot and is "the anchor". Thankfully, there's a whole offseason to try and figure this out. But, if Butch Barry can make lemonade out of this bag of lemons, then build a special wing for him in Canton.
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Nailed it. This isn’t even a revelation, this is just like “the sky is blue” type obvious stuff and yet… here we are, with another questionable OL. Oh joy.
 
utahphinsfan said:
I guess football is a way of life in the B12 & just a game in the AAC.
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Do you have take everything so literal?

You know exactly what I meant… the AAC is nowhere close to the Big12 in terms of talent. My point is he hasn’t exactly been lining up across from All American EDGE guys.
 
MiaFins31 said:
Do you have take everything so literal?

You know exactly what I meant… the AAC is nowhere close to the Big12 in terms of talent. My point is he hasn’t exactly been lining up across from All American EDGE guys.
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I'll stop being so literal when you stop being so serious.... deal?
 
eMCee85 said:
I've been screaming this all off season. It wasn't me you had the argument with but I've been saying our first two draft picks should be o line... we need them desperately. No matter what the clowns say about it doesn't matter because Tua has such a quick release... bull ****!!! And what if Tua gets hurt again? Now we watch the back up get screwed because the o line is horrible.

I'll go on record to say we messed up big time this draft. We picked players that are not ready to start and are ****ing project players... only ****ing Grier man...
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You are correct about who we got with our 1st two draft selections.

As to your conclusion of the effectiveness of those two picks, I believe you failed to allocate appropriate value to the players that we selected, ignored the additions we made in FA to our OL, and forgot that we still have some excellent OL players who are coming back.

It will be interesting to see the makeup of our OL after training camp.

I believe it will be better than last year's OL and that we will have significantly better depth at each position, with many of those players being available for two different OL positions.

This will pair well with our significantly improved defense with more good players, better depth, and a new DC who is likely to outperform last year's DC.
 
Finswatch said:
Right back at you.

I now believe that multiple OL in every draft, rather than multiple WRs or skill guys, is the right way to go. But we have to make sure we don't go into any drafts with less than 7 picks. Let's make it 10 as often as we can

My cousin is a huge Eagles fan, and a smart guy. He doesn't like Howie Roseman's work in most drafts and we disagree on this point. I looked at what Philly does in every draft and it is almost always among the best in the league, imo. This year, even with what most would say is an elite OL, they decided to add additional talent to the OL. They decided to upgrade from Jack Driscoll and we decided to sign Jack and draft a developmental LT and add a few additional pieces that probably wouldn't be more than second or third stringers for the Eagles.
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It’s absolutely the correct way to build a sustainable winning franchise. Games are won/lost at the LOS on both sides.

Skill guys are great and fun to watch but come playoff time when it’s cold and conditions present different challenges… you have to be able to line up and run the football successfully. You do by having a top notch OL. A top notch OL isn’t just the 5 starters… you need depth bc it’s the NFL and injuries will almost certainly occur for everyone.

Same thing on the DL. In the playoffs… you have to be able to rush the passer with your front 3 or 4 depending on what type of scheme you’re running. The LOS are the most important pieces outside of the QB.

As you said… Philly/KC and other winning teams are constantly adding to their OL even though what they already have is considered top notch. They understand that’s how you build and then sustain a winning franchise.

Not sure why your cousin has a problem with Howie Roseman? He’s considered one of the best in the game and consistently produces playoff level teams. The evidence is there as he’s been doing it a long time.

This is why we get pushed around and are physically overwhelmed at the point of attack when we face teams like Baltimore/Philly and the like. They can take 2/3 guys out and put in 2/3 fresh guys and the drop off is minimal while they’re still facing the same 5 that are already tired bc they’ve been dealing with the starters.

That’s how you win in football. The LOS on both sides of the ball are the key.
 
Patrick Paul has another advantage besides his length, and that is his incredible strength! He is easily the strongest offensive lineman on this team now and I think that will allow him to compensate for the lack of technical development he might demonstrate early on in training camp and into the season.

He has Butch Barry and Terron Armstead to help him get up to speed with the technical aspect of his game. I am extremely confident that they will turn Paul into an absolute monster!

And look at his film. Paul loves to get really physical with his opponent at the line of scrimmage!
I guess he just wants to work on his martial arts skills that he’s heavily involved in. 😎

I actually hope that the Dolphins will draft more giant and physical Planet Theory players like Paul in the future!
I so badly want to be the proverbial bully on the block going forward!!
 
MiaFins31 said:
It’s absolutely the correct way to build a sustainable winning franchise. Games are won/lost at the LOS on both sides.

Skill guys are great and fun to watch but come playoff time when it’s cold and conditions present different challenges… you have to be able to line up and run the football successfully. You do by having a top notch OL. A top notch OL isn’t just the 5 starters… you need depth bc it’s the NFL and injuries will almost certainly occur for everyone.

Same thing on the DL. In the playoffs… you have to be able to rush the passer with your front 3 or 4 depending on what type of scheme you’re running. The LOS are the most important pieces outside of the QB.

As you said… Philly/KC and other winning teams are constantly adding to their OL even though what they already have is considered top notch. They understand that’s how you build and then sustain a winning franchise.

Not sure why your cousin has a problem with Howie Roseman? He’s considered one of the best in the game and consistently produces playoff level teams. The evidence is there as he’s been doing it a long time.

This is why we get pushed around and are physically overwhelmed at the point of attack when we face teams like Baltimore/Philly and the like. They can take 2/3 guys out and put in 2/3 fresh guys and the drop off is minimal while they’re still facing the same 5 that are already tired bc they’ve been dealing with the starters.

That’s how you win in football. The LOS on both sides of the ball are the key.
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Eagle fans are rarely happy in my experience. My cousin thinks Howie whiffs on too many first round picks but they are essentially a home grown team with a solid roster everywhere. He's got to get credit for a lot of that success. They fell apart last season largely due to a bad secondary and some shaky coaching by Siriani and his assistants. They have re-loaded their personnel and have gotten better coordinators (I think?). I am down on Fangio who seems to be so old-school and hard headed that he's going to run into problems everywhere he coaches. Nevertheless, I think he has players to work with up there. If I saw one more snap with Duke Riley or Eli Apple I'd jump into traffic, Vic had options, he chose not to employ them.

Getting back to the OL, I think Miami has two or three problems regarding their O-line. They haven't been well coached in years. I think JJ and Sparano had some good OL coaches but Philbin, Gase and Flores ran OCs and OL coaches in and out of here like they were hookers at a political convention. Flores' having 3 OCs in three years or whatever it was couldn't have helped AJ or Dieter or any of the OL we drafted.

Second, our FO is reactive, not proactive like KC and Philly, when it comes to acquiring OL through the draft or free agency. We reach for/overdraft prospects then poorly develop them. We'll overpay for free agents because that's what you have to do to get good OL to sign, especially tackles. I gotta give McLovin credit for realizing that his first OL coach, Matt Applebaum (?), wasn't going to cut it. Butch Barry looks like a good hire to this point and hopefully he was pounding the table for Patrick Paul and can develop him quickly,
 
If armstead & Wynn are healthy during our next playoff run we have a chance to compete for a Super Bowl. Plus brewer , Driscoll & Austin have to be solid.
 
Finswatch said:
Right back at you.

I now believe that multiple OL in every draft, rather than multiple WRs or skill guys, is the right way to go. But we have to make sure we don't go into any drafts with less than 7 picks. Let's make it 10 as often as we can

My cousin is a huge Eagles fan, and a smart guy. He doesn't like Howie Roseman's work in most drafts and we disagree on this point. I looked at what Philly does in every draft and it is almost always among the best in the league, imo. This year, even with what most would say is an elite OL, they decided to add additional talent to the OL. They decided to upgrade from Jack Driscoll and we decided to sign Jack and draft a developmental LT and add a few additional pieces that probably wouldn't be more than second or third stringers for the Eagles.
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You win from the inside out. Miami still hasn't embraced this fact, even though they have become laughingstocks by not winning a playoff game in over 2 decades...but yeah, they know better than the rest of the league.
 
Shula Fan said:
My thoughts are we still need to add at least one more solid player. It would be amazing if we did that and Connor Williams also came back healthy.
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It's a shame Williams got injured as it looked like Fins had finally solidified the Center position. I think it's the last we have seen of Williams in Miami as they just gave Brewer $21 mill. Why, I don't know, but they did.
 
Here are some of my thoughts on Paul.

He's experienced in the fact that he's played so many games, yet inexperienced with elite competition. He has NFL ready strength, which many draft picks don't despite their pedigree. He needs some refinement but he's about to receive some of the best coaching he's ever had in his life along with a great mentor.

If he takes well to coaching, this could be a very good draft pick that contributes this year. It's not like TA and AJ have stellar medical records.
 
Goonies said:
If armstead & Wynn are healthy during our next playoff run we have a chance to compete for a Super Bowl. Plus brewer , Driscoll & Austin have to be solid.
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I'm sure that I'm not the only one who sees that the majority of the o-linemen they're counting on were drafted by other teams. Other teams can build a decent o-line through the draft, but Grier has to pay FAs because he mostly sucks at drafting linemen. And, the duo of Grier and McDaniel are so concerned with acquiring speedy offensive weapons that the o-line is basically nothing more than an afterthought each year.
 
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