Thoughts on the OL after the draft

[gofins60]

No, you aren't the only one who sees this. I have been against drafting OL, especially in rounds 1 and 2, until recently. I thought about this problem and changed my mind. Drafting OL every year is a good strategy, it doesn't have to be in rounds 1 or 2, but you can't just draft offensive linemen without a plan and that's what we've been doing for way too long

And to clarify, I was against drafting OL because I felt the same way as you, we had no idea how to do it and therefore wasted so many picks and resources on them it was getting ridiculous.

Drafting OL is only one part of the process. It has to be a collaborative process that starts with the HC or OL coaching telling the GM what he needs in a T or IOL and then figuring out who the right prospects are. Evaluating and developing them are the keys and imo in years past we didn't come close to doing that. We'd draft a guy like Dieter or Billy Turner because we needed an IOL and then not have a plan. We'd throw a guy like Jamil Douglas into the fire and then act shocked when he failed. Or move AJ from LT to LG to RT and then declare him a bust when he couldn't hold down his position successfully.

I'm encouraged by AJ but still feel like we wasted 1-2 years figuring out where he fit best. That's on Flores and his parade of OC's and OL coaches. Too say Flores was allergic to learning anything about OLs and offense is being kind. I'm not very encouraged by Liam Eichenberg who doesn't have the athletic gifts or strength that AJ and Robert Hunt do. He's also been passed around like a party favor but I feel like the biggest problem is that the FO knew they needed another tackle, saw he was one of the best T's left and then overdrafted him out of a sense of desperation. I don't see a guy who is going to grow into a solid starter in Eichenberg and it's a shame we wasted so much time and draft picks on him. Maybe he sticks as a backup but this roster and O are better if we upgrade from him this year.

I think McD and Butch Barry know what they want in an OL and hopefully this signals a change in how we do business in contracting our O-line.

Good points, and I agree. At first I thought the o-line issue ever since Philbin was all caused by the Front Office, but eventually realized that the coaching side was also a problem. Linemen that did okay under Sparano didn't do as well under Philbin, and the only way that's possible is if what Philbin wanted them to do wasn't as effective as what they did under Sparano. Even having several 1st round picks on the line didn't help with their overall performance under Philbin and Gase. I know it's just my opinion and a generalization, but it sure seems like a line with most of the same guys was better at run-blocking under Philbin, but worse at run-blocking under Gase.

It seems to me that previous GMs were better at drafting o-linemen, but the OL coaching and/or Head Coach's offensive philosophy was bad. And now, many say that the current OL Coach is good, but IMO Grier is worse than previous GMs when it comes to drafting o-linemen. I also believe that McDaniel doesn't care too much about the line because if he did, they would have had a real Center on the active roster in case Williams got hurt. Making Eichenberg the Center shows that they don't value the o-line. IOW, I don't think Miami will ever have a strong o-line under Grier and McDaniel.

 

[JamesWsenior]

I dont have the stats in front of me, but if you check your beloved PFF his rating was like 52 in pass protection and rated as one of the worst Centers in terms of sacks and pressures. The knock is that he gets over powered and cant handle stunts. His forte is run blocking but sucks in pass blocking. If you really believe that is good, we obviously assess players much differently.

All good and dandy. The question I want to know is "can he snap the damn ball properly?"

 

[rafael]

Kion Smith, Ryan Hayes, Isiah Wynn, Liam Eichenburg, Chasen Hines, Robert Jones

Butch Barry has been developing all 6 guys in our system.

So you have the 2nd year in the system and you have a good teacher teaching them.

Two pluses in that regard.

So we have a lot of developmental guys ready to step up or get cut.

Continuity and development are the biggest factors in building an OL in general and for Miami this year specifically. It's not always about spending a top pick or signing a big FA. In fact, I would say historically the best OLs that are good year after year get that way through continuity rather than with a splash addition. I personally would have added Barton this draft, but thinking there's only one way to build an OL generally just shows that you have very little football understanding.

Going into the season we have enough OL talent to field a good starting OL. My concern is for the depth. There are a couple of starters I don't have much faith in their ability to stay healthy (Armstead and Wynn). We may of course still add more OL after June 1st. I don't see clear upgrades with what's available now, but there are always cuts before the season starts. If we don't add more OL then it will depend on internal continuity and development.

I see enough talent among the back-ups that I think we could weather an injury at LT and even at either or both Gs, but if we have to go down to our 9th OL getting a majority of the snaps like last season then that could be hobbling to our offense. My biggest depth concern is at C as I don't see anybody on the roster with the talent to fill in at C and keep our offense running smoothly.

My #1 hope is that Williams can recover and be a late signing. He was clearly better at C than G but a healthy Williams is starter level at either position. I just don't have any reliable info on how likely that is. There were extremely pessimistic reports early on followed by more optimistic but vague reports later. Anybody claiming to know the truth based just on any of those reports is just revealing their level of optimism or pessimism.

 

[DrMultimedia]

I really hope our new center can do it. Good OLs really need a SMART center with at least NFL average level physicality. Recognizing what the D is thinking is critical. I still miss DS. Soooo long ago.

I keep hoping we draft a true center rather high, but things never seem to match up with our needs/draft slots/available talent.

Counting on a lot of unknowns at this point of the pre pre preseason.

 

[FrostyFinFan]

Continuity and development are the biggest factors in building an OL in general and for Miami this year specifically. It's not always about spending a top pick or signing a big FA. In fact, I would say historically the best OLs that are good year after year get that way through continuity rather than with a splash addition. I personally would have added Barton this draft, but thinking there's only one way to build an OL generally just shows that you have very little football understanding.

Going into the season we have enough OL talent to field a good starting OL. My concern is for the depth. There are a couple of starters I don't have much faith in their ability to stay healthy (Armstead and Wynn). We may of course still add more OL after June 1st. I don't see clear upgrades with what's available now, but there are always cuts before the season starts. If we don't add more OL then it will depend on internal continuity and development.

I see enough talent among the back-ups that I think we could weather an injury at LT and even at either or both Gs, but if we have to go down to our 9th OL getting a majority of the snaps like last season then that could be hobbling to our offense. My biggest depth concern is at C as I don't see anybody on the roster with the talent to fill in at C and keep our offense running smoothly.

My #1 hope is that Williams can recover and be a late signing. He was clearly better at C than G but a healthy Williams is starter level at either position. I just don't have any reliable info on how likely that is. There were extremely pessimistic reports early on followed by more optimistic but vague reports later. Anybody claiming to know the truth based just on any of those reports is just revealing their level of optimism or pessimism.

Agree with your thoughts on Williams. None of us know. But, Williams and the coaching staff does. We’ll be the last to know. Hopefully their lack of addressing OC is because they know about Williams already and have a mutual plan. We can only hope.

 

[zullo1]

All good and dandy. The question I want to know is "can he snap the damn ball properly?"

Funny you should ask. He's had trouble with that as well.

 

[zullo1]

Continuity and development are the biggest factors in building an OL in general and for Miami this year specifically. It's not always about spending a top pick or signing a big FA. In fact, I would say historically the best OLs that are good year after year get that way through continuity rather than with a splash addition. I personally would have added Barton this draft, but thinking there's only one way to build an OL generally just shows that you have very little football understanding.

Going into the season we have enough OL talent to field a good starting OL. My concern is for the depth. There are a couple of starters I don't have much faith in their ability to stay healthy (Armstead and Wynn). We may of course still add more OL after June 1st. I don't see clear upgrades with what's available now, but there are always cuts before the season starts. If we don't add more OL then it will depend on internal continuity and development.

I see enough talent among the back-ups that I think we could weather an injury at LT and even at either or both Gs, but if we have to go down to our 9th OL getting a majority of the snaps like last season then that could be hobbling to our offense. My biggest depth concern is at C as I don't see anybody on the roster with the talent to fill in at C and keep our offense running smoothly.

My #1 hope is that Williams can recover and be a late signing. He was clearly better at C than G but a healthy Williams is starter level at either position. I just don't have any reliable info on how likely that is. There were extremely pessimistic reports early on followed by more optimistic but vague reports later. Anybody claiming to know the truth based just on any of those reports is just revealing their level of optimism or pessimism.

Unless Williams is ready to sign a 1 year prove it contract after the injury, he's likely not coming back. They sunk a pretty penny into Brewer.

 

[MrClean]

I dont have the stats in front of me, but if you check your beloved PFF his rating was like 52 in pass protection and rated as one of the worst Centers in terms of sacks and pressures. The knock is that he gets over powered and cant handle stunts. His forte is run blocking but sucks in pass blocking. If you really believe that is good, we obviously assess players much differently.

how much have you watched and isolated on Brewer with your own two eyes?

 

[MrClean]

Relax dude I’m just posting that in response to you chastising that guy as if he was the only person not high on the brewer pick up.

 

[MrClean]

Agree with your thoughts on Williams. None of us know. But, Williams and the coaching staff does. We’ll be the last to know. Hopefully their lack of addressing OC is because they know about Williams already and have a mutual plan. We can only hope.

21m for 3 years is a lack of addressing center?

 

[Ray R]

21m for 3 years is a lack of addressing center?

Yes, but it was a valid option.
time to move on. - LOL

 

[MrClean]

Funny you should ask. He's had trouble with that as well.

According to your own visual analysis or did you read that somewhere?

 

[zullo1]

how much have you watched and isolated on Brewer with your own two eyes?

how much have you watched and isolated on Brewer with your own two eyes?

Give it a rest pal. Your stats argument failed miserably, so now you are pretending to have watched every game he's played and focused in on him. Thats really disingenuous. Like everyone else I read articles, messages boards, twitter, watch replays, etc. I don't specifically watch the Titans unless they are on national tv or playing the Dolphins. I forgot though, that you have watched every game he's ever played in his life. Your act is so friggin' transparent and it has worn thin.

 

[MrClean]

Give it a rest pal. Your stats argument failed miserably, so now you are pretending to have watched every game he's played and focused in on him. Thats really disingenuous. Like everyone else I read articles, messages boards, twitter, watch replays, etc. I don't specifically watch the Titans unless they are on national tv or playing the Dolphins. I forgot though, that you have watched every game he's ever played in his life. Your act is so friggin' transparent and it has worn thin.

I have never once claimed to have watched every game he's played. Based on what you've said about him, my guess would more likely be you have not watched him at all. Your hatred for him is over the top. That is why I don't just scroll past your inane Brewer nonsense.
You obtusely leave out context. Granted he was not good in pass pro, according to your stats argument. It has been suggested in previous posts who he was pass-blocking for in Tennessee, and who he'll be pass-blocking for with Miami, are significantly different. How long they hold the ball, Things like that. How often they use true pass sets, and how often they each throw from play action. But you seem to disregard the idea that those differences likely mean he'll be much better suited in Miami's offense.

We should also consider that 2023 was his first full season starting at C and some improvement should come from the extra experience

The offenses are significantly different. Miami ran the 2nd highest pct of outside zone last season besides only Atlanta and that was primarily with Eich at center since he played well over half the center snaps. 659 compared to 497 for Connor. No one has claimed Brewer will be better than Connor as a blocker in this offense, but he will be significantly better than Liam. He snaps better than either of them. Simply because Brewer will be much more effective run-blocking than Liam was, we should be glad to have him. He is much better suited for Miami's rushing offense than Tennessee's since they did not use as much outside zone, which is where Brewer shines the most. We obviously cannot count on Connor ever coming back due to his health and contract status. What better course of action regarding C would you have rather seen Miami do than sign Brewer?

 

[zullo1]

I have never once claimed to have watched every game he's played. Based on what you've said about him, my guess would more likely be you have not watched him at all. Your hatred for him is over the top. That is why I don't just scroll past your inane Brewer nonsense.
You obtusely leave out context. Granted he was not good in pass pro, according to your stats argument. It has been suggested in previous posts who he was pass-blocking for in Tennessee, and who he'll be pass-blocking for with Miami, are significantly different. How long they hold the ball, Things like that. How often they use true pass sets, and how often they each throw from play action. But you seem to disregard the idea that those differences likely mean he'll be much better suited in Miami's offense.

We should also consider that 2023 was his first full season starting at C and some improvement should come from the extra experience

The offenses are significantly different. Miami ran the 2nd highest pct of outside zone last season besides only Atlanta and that was primarily with Eich at center since he played well over half the center snaps. 659 compared to 497 for Connor. No one has claimed Brewer will be better than Connor as a blocker in this offense, but he will be significantly better than Liam. He snaps better than either of them. Simply because Brewer will be much more effective run-blocking than Liam was, we should be glad to have him. He is much better suited for Miami's rushing offense than Tennessee's since they did not use as much outside zone, which is where Brewer shines the most. We obviously cannot count on Connor ever coming back due to his health and contract status. What better course of action regarding C would you have rather seen Miami do than sign Brewer?

I dont hate him. I dont know him. I stated that based on his performace at Center he sucks as a pass blocker and is near the bottom of the barrel in pass protection. That is fact no matter how much you fantasize and drool over this guy. I hope he gets better because now he is the starting Center for the Fins. Thats it.