Proof The Dolphins Tampering Penalty Was About Flores, And Not Tampering? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Proof The Dolphins Tampering Penalty Was About Flores, And Not Tampering?

jimthefin said:
He took the job and then grumbled and bitched the whole year while mailing it.

Yes, it was his fault.
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Agreed.

Once he accepted the job. His poor performance or lack of investment is on him, not the team.

He could have done what others have done and simply declined the offer.

Really no excuse or share of blame here
 
Mello Yello said:
Well, I don't agree that Fangio mailed it in to begin with so you and I need not bicker about that.

And that's not stealing any way you cut it. That's the Dolphins hiring the wrong guy.

Own it and move on.
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We have differing opinions on the matter, taking advantage of a situation like he did is deceitful and wrong imo.
 
jimthefin said:
He took the job and then grumbled and bitched the whole year while mailing it.

Yes, it was his fault.
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Warning signs were right there from the beginning when in one of is press conferences he said he hadn't watched any tape of our players from last year.

His demeanour every Friday was of someone who didn't want to be there, his short, curt answers at every press conference was like "Why do I need to answer these?"
 
djphinfan said:
We have differing opinions on the matter, taking advantage of a situation like he did is deceitful and wrong imo.
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Well, it sounds like you're suggesting VF should've behaved in a fashion somehow different from all other men from planet Earth. I'm surprised you of all people would do that.

There's no point in blaming an individual for demonstrating characteristics which are universal to the species.

Do I blame an individual squirrel for digging holes in my garden or do I blame Nature itself and attempt to resolve the issue with better protections for my garden?

Again, Miami was the employer here. They must be held accountable if it was a bad hire (which I don't think they believe it was, even today). It makes no sense at all to see it any other way. If I hire the wrong person, I must adjust my interview process.

My feeling is they probably knew it'd be a 1-year commitment and threw money at him so he'd take it. And again, where's the evidence that Miami's front office is today mad at Vic Fangio? I've heard nothing from McDaniel or Grier to suggest they felt betrayed.


Sorry to drag out the issue, DJ. It's over and done. I get it. I just hate fan narratives that are so overtly self-serving and so designed to defend the team from all realistic critique. Like, c'mon guys. We're not so soft we need kid gloves here. Ugh, what a loser mentality.
 
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djphinfan said:
We have differing opinions on the matter, taking advantage of a situation like he did is deceitful and wrong imo.
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i think flores was just another bad head coach from the belichick tree. also inexperienced. they all come in and try to be belichick, without the pedigree or the smarts. the minkah fitzpatrick thing was a great example, blew the best player on our roster right off the team. the music incident with kenny stills. didn't seem to really want to develop tua. the list goes on and on. i suspect behind the scenes was a giant pain in the ass and challenging to deal with, which is probably what got him fired. then left us with nice parting gifts, one of which we just paid the final price on.
 
Mello Yello said:
Well, it sounds like you're suggesting VF should've behaved in a fashion somehow different from all other men from planet Earth. I'm surprised you of all people would do that.

There's no point in blaming an individual for demonstrating characteristics which are universal to the species.

Do I blame an individual squirrel for digging holes in my garden or do I blame Nature itself and attempt to resolve the issue with better protections for my garden?

Again, Miami was the employer here. They must be held accountable if it was a bad hire. It makes no sense at all to see it any other way. If I hire the wrong person, I must adjust my interview process.
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really you’re comparing a human being to a rat?

Obviously the human should have a conscious, which the rat does not, and which that piece of crap did not, just interested in his 10 million dollars.
 
phinsforlife said:
i think flores was just another bad head coach from the belichick tree. also inexperienced. they all come in and try to be belichick, without the pedigree or the smarts. the minkah fitzpatrick thing was a great example, blew the best player on our roster right off the team. the music incident with kenny stills. didn't seem to really want to develop tua. the list goes on and on. i suspect behind the scenes was a giant pain in the ass and challenging to deal with, which is probably what got him fired. then left us with nice parting gifts, one of which we just paid the final price on.
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I have my own thoughts about Flores, tough to share them cause they wouldn’t be popular
 
djphinfan said:
really you’re comparing a human being to a rat?

Obviously the human should have a conscious, which the rat does not, and which that piece of crap did not, just interested in his 10 million dollars.
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I didn't say "rat" but I do believe employees are human and therefore inherently self-interested.

I would say it's that very fact which necessitates effort be put forth on the part of the employer to determine the "right man for the job."

If you believe Vic Fangio is really an awful employee, you're simultaneously saying the Miami Dolphins are totally incompetent employers for hiring him.

I don't believe either is true.

In fact, I'll go so far as to say that no one here actually believes anything close to either of those claims which makes it all the more frustrating that it's stated. It's not what anyone actually thinks. It's cheap fodder for meaningless posts saying, 'screw ___, he's gone now' which is generally what you hear from fans about any ex-player or ex-coach who isn't associated with the HoF or a SB won by their team.
 
Mello Yello said:
I didn't say "rat" but I do believe employees are human and therefore inherently self-interested.

I would say it's that very fact which necessitates effort be put forth on the part of the employer to determine the "right man for the job."

If you believe Vic Fangio is really an awful employee, you're simultaneously saying the Miami Dolphins are totally incompetent employers for hiring him.

I don't believe either is true.
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yes I believe our coach and GM ****ed up.

We’re talking about two different things Mello

Both can be true, our regime ****ed up and Fangio is a piece of ****

However I’m sure Fangio didn’t let on he didn’t give a **** about us, so I forgive our regime
 
djphinfan said:
However I’m sure Fangio didn’t let on he didn’t give a **** about us...
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Evidence?


Everyone else seems to think it was clear as day that Vic Fangio put effort into projecting himself as a short-term DC.

My hypothesis is that Fangio acted indifferent because he and Dolphins both understood the nature of their short-term relationship and thus he was free to act how he wanted so long as certain coaching & game-planning boxes were checked for the 2023 season. That's the simplest explanation--that Fangio acted as someone in his position with the freedom to do so would.

Your claims paint Fangio as evil (which I've never heard said of him) and the Miami Dolphins as naive and stupid (which I've never heard said of them).

Occam's razor DJ.
 
djphinfan said:
I’ll just say this, and I was saying these things in real time.

Once Flores was forced by a front office to play a player he did not want to play, he checked out.
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that would fit what i appeared to me to be his general personality profile - immature, intransigent, not good at working with others, etc. no different than what happened with minkah fitzpatrick. head coach is a management role, in fact, management and people skills might be more important to being a good HC than the X's and O's (still important, but assistants deal with a lot of that too, HC needs to get the players to play hard and do what they are supposed to do and keep the ship running smoothly). i think this is what got flores fired. he was impossible to deal with. acted the same way out the door as he did when he was here.
 
Mello Yello said:
Evidence?


Everyone else seems to think it was clear as day that Vic Fangio put effort into projecting himself as a short-term DC.

My hypothesis is that Fangio acted indifferent because he and Dolphins both understood the nature of their short-term relationship and thus he was free to act how he wanted so long as certain coaching & game-planning boxes were checked for the 2023 season. That's the simplest explanation--that Fangio acted as someone in his position with the freedom to do so would.

Your claims paint Fangio as evil (which I've never heard said of him) and the Miami Dolphins as naive and stupid (which I've never heard said of them).

Occam's razor DJ.
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I am not so sure Fangio is the guy he was portrayed as. If he came across as indifferent for example, is this the way he always behaved? He coached the games from the press box, and we didn't see him screaming and yelling on the sidelines, so that didn't help. Then the team never had him doing a lot of interviews or public facing things. Heck, barely even showed up on Hard Knocks, which was interesting too. The defensive and offensive assistants got alot more time than Fangio did. No idea if this is what Fangio is, or if he came here and was a different guy than he was in the past. Anyway, my guess is much more to the Fangio story than is commonly believed, and I do not think it is as one sided as many seem to think now. My guess is he will be pretty succesful in Philly, but we will see. Part of why I think it is an interesting litmus test.
 
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