49ers Analytic Driven OT Possession Decision And What It Means For The Dolphins | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

49ers Analytic Driven OT Possession Decision And What It Means For The Dolphins

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I think like the 49ers, and Detroit, Miami is too reliant on analytics for some in game decisions, and they do not take into account other variables that alter the analytics.

49ers decision to take the ball first was driven by analytics. Rationale was if both teams have the ball, and the game is still tied, THEN the game goes into sudden death. IF that happens, 49ers then have the ball first, and any score wins the game.

OK – big IF. I do NOT care what the computer says when playing Mahomes, and the defense is entirely worn out, AND you are giving that guy (not the average QB), 4 downs on every possession, if you have scored first. That is the downside of taking the ball first. If you score, you give the other team 4 downs to match. You are giving them an advantage. BAD decision in this case.

This strategy reminds me of people in the knockout pool that instead of trying to just win the game in week 1 with a high probability pick, they try to look 10 games out, and pick a marginal team to win in the first week, so they have saved the really good team in win in week 10. That person NEVER makes it to week 10. It does not work. You do what is the highest probability thing to do for the first two possessions that are more predictable, then take your chances with what happens if the game keeps going. You do NOT bet on a series of events you may never come to realize, which is exactly what happened in this game. The 49ers never got the ball back to go to sudden death, and they didn’t get the ball back for a reason – the guy they were up against and the fact their defense was exhausted.

In a situation like this, and given the opponent you are playing against, and given your defense is worn out, and since IF you go ahead you are giving Mahomes 4 downs, I could give a crap what the analytics department says. THEY DO NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHO THE OPPONENT IS AND ALL THE OTHER VARIABLES LIKE THE DEFENSE IS WORN OUT. The analytics are based on the “average” situation, and this was decidedly NOT the average situation or the average QB you are going against!

Both teams have the opportunity to get the ball at least once during overtime unless the team kicking off received a safety on the team’s initial possession. If one team has more points than its opponent after the two possessions, it is declared the winner.

If the game is tied after the two possessions or neither team scored on their first possession, then the game goes into sudden death.

Coach Kyle Shanahan suggested he had a strategy for overtime.

"If both teams matched and scored, we wanted to be the ones with the chance to go win it," he said. "We got that field goal, so we were hoping to hold them to at least a field goal. If we did, we felt it was in our hands after."hg
 
I think like the 49ers, and Detroit, Miami is too reliant on analytics for some in game decisions, and they do not take into account other variables that alter the analytics.

49ers decision to take the ball first was driven by analytics. Rationale was if both teams have the ball, and the game is still tied, THEN the game goes into sudden death. IF that happens, 49ers then have the ball first, and any score wins the game.

OK – big IF. I do NOT care what the computer says when playing Mahomes, and the defense is entirely worn out, AND you are giving that guy (not the average QB), 4 downs on every possession, if you have scored first. That is the downside of taking the ball first. If you score, you give the other team 4 downs to match. You are giving them an advantage. BAD decision in this case.

This strategy reminds me of people in the knockout pool that instead of trying to just win the game in week 1 with a high probability pick, they try to look 10 games out, and pick a marginal team to win in the first week, so they have saved the really good team in win in week 10. That person NEVER makes it to week 10. It does not work. You do what is the highest probability thing to do for the first two possessions that are more predictable, then take your chances with what happens if the game keeps going. You do NOT bet on a series of events you may never come to realize, which is exactly what happened in this game. The 49ers never got the ball back to go to sudden death, and they didn’t get the ball back for a reason – the guy they were up against and the fact their defense was exhausted.

In a situation like this, and given the opponent you are playing against, and given your defense is worn out, and since IF you go ahead you are giving Mahomes 4 downs, I could give a crap what the analytics department says. THEY DO NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHO THE OPPONENT IS AND ALL THE OTHER VARIABLES LIKE THE DEFENSE IS WORN OUT. The analytics are based on the “average” situation, and this was decidedly NOT the average situation or the average QB you are going against!

Both teams have the opportunity to get the ball at least once during overtime unless the team kicking off received a safety on the team’s initial possession. If one team has more points than its opponent after the two possessions, it is declared the winner.

If the game is tied after the two possessions or neither team scored on their first possession, then the game goes into sudden death.

Coach Kyle Shanahan suggested he had a strategy for overtime.

"If both teams matched and scored, we wanted to be the ones with the chance to go win it," he said. "We got that field goal, so we were hoping to hold them to at least a field goal. If we did, we felt it was in our hands after."hg
Well, had San Fran not missed an extra point it would have been 4th and goal with the entire game on the line and either San Fran would have held them or KC would have won, no OT.
 
Well, had San Fran not missed an extra point it would have been 4th and goal with the entire game on the line and either San Fran would have held them or KC would have won, no OT.
They should have run the ball on 3 and 5 at the end of the 4th Chiefs would had to call a timeout.And you got the first down the game was over.The Chiefs gave a lot of rushing yards up in the playoffs and in the Super Bowl.
 
Well, had San Fran not missed an extra point it would have been 4th and goal with the entire game on the line and either San Fran would have held them or KC would have won, no OT.
that is a separate issue. once it is OT you need to make the right decision. and, if san fran makes the XP, with Mahomes, well decent chance KC scores a TD if they needed it as opposed to kicking the FG to send it to OT. but again, totally different issue
 
These new rules are going to result in a 2 point conversion for all the marbles. Let's say SF got a TD on their possession. They have to kick the extra point or a TD and an extra point beats them if they miss the 2. So, KC down by 7, if they score, they either kick the extra point and can lose on a fg. Or they go for the win or lose right then on the 2 point conversion. The odds probably favor going for 2 and the win.
 
I though not educating the players on the OT rules was also a fail, Crossman anyone?
 
Well, had San Fran not missed an extra point it would have been 4th and goal with the entire game on the line and either San Fran would have held them or KC would have won, no OT.
It was still 3rd down with 6 seconds left when KC kicked the game tying field goal, right? So they would have had 2 shots at the end zone, assuming the first play didn’t run the clock down to zero.
 
people making too much out of everything that doesn’t work.......KC was very fortunate to win that game......a very fortunate punt that hit the leg of a player not looking for the ball.....if that hadn’t happened then most likely SF wins the game.

I can’t blame SF for the taking the ball in OT.....their defense had just been on the field and needed a rest......SF had a great play called on 3rd down that would have been a TD if not for Chris Jones making a great play by pushing the OG out of the way and putting the pressure on Purdy who had to get rid of the ball. Had Jones been blocked then SF has the upper hand.
 
I think like the 49ers, and Detroit, Miami is too reliant on analytics for some in game decisions, and they do not take into account other variables that alter the analytics.

49ers decision to take the ball first was driven by analytics. Rationale was if both teams have the ball, and the game is still tied, THEN the game goes into sudden death. IF that happens, 49ers then have the ball first, and any score wins the game.

OK – big IF. I do NOT care what the computer says when playing Mahomes, and the defense is entirely worn out, AND you are giving that guy (not the average QB), 4 downs on every possession, if you have scored first. That is the downside of taking the ball first. If you score, you give the other team 4 downs to match. You are giving them an advantage. BAD decision in this case.

This strategy reminds me of people in the knockout pool that instead of trying to just win the game in week 1 with a high probability pick, they try to look 10 games out, and pick a marginal team to win in the first week, so they have saved the really good team in win in week 10. That person NEVER makes it to week 10. It does not work. You do what is the highest probability thing to do for the first two possessions that are more predictable, then take your chances with what happens if the game keeps going. You do NOT bet on a series of events you may never come to realize, which is exactly what happened in this game. The 49ers never got the ball back to go to sudden death, and they didn’t get the ball back for a reason – the guy they were up against and the fact their defense was exhausted.

In a situation like this, and given the opponent you are playing against, and given your defense is worn out, and since IF you go ahead you are giving Mahomes 4 downs, I could give a crap what the analytics department says. THEY DO NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHO THE OPPONENT IS AND ALL THE OTHER VARIABLES LIKE THE DEFENSE IS WORN OUT. The analytics are based on the “average” situation, and this was decidedly NOT the average situation or the average QB you are going against!

Both teams have the opportunity to get the ball at least once during overtime unless the team kicking off received a safety on the team’s initial possession. If one team has more points than its opponent after the two possessions, it is declared the winner.

If the game is tied after the two possessions or neither team scored on their first possession, then the game goes into sudden death.

Coach Kyle Shanahan suggested he had a strategy for overtime.

"If both teams matched and scored, we wanted to be the ones with the chance to go win it," he said. "We got that field goal, so we were hoping to hold them to at least a field goal. If we did, we felt it was in our hands after."hg
Are you assuming it was analytic driven?

If it is analytics driven please post the analytics.

If SF scored a TD and KC followed with a TD they were going to go for 2. Game over!

KC was prepared for all outcomes and SF wasn’t.

 
Players not knowing OT rules is unbelievable, that is brutal on coach.
For me, tight game 16-13, 4th and 3 and going for it is crazy, you kick the FG all day in that spot. It was almost ironic that they went for it and ultimately scored TD only to miss the extra point.
 
Once you embrace analytics, or other data-driven approaches, it becomes more difficult to go against them for any given decision. In medicine for example, decisions are largely now “evidence-based.” So what happens if you try to reason out a different choice, say by considering other factors or understanding the data is imperfect, and you end up being WRONG? You’ve committed malpractice, might be sued, lose your license, etc.

Obviously there’s nothing comparable for NFL coaching, but my point is that going against data-driven approaches becomes almost inexcusable once you’ve embraced them. More than anything, analytics can make an incompetent coaching staff competent, but will never measure up to coaches with exceptional abilities in critical moments.
 
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