AFC East Debate: Dolphins RBs or Bills RBs? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

AFC East Debate: Dolphins RBs or Bills RBs?

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Why the Dolphins have the better backs

There aren't many teams that can say they have two running backs as talented and accomplished as Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams. Both have 1,000 yard seasons under their belts. Both have been to the Pro Bowl in the past. And both are threats not just as runners but as receivers out of the backfield.
Yes, I'm aware that Ronnie is coming off of yet another season-ending injury. But when he's healthy, he's an elite talent in this league. He's as versatile as any running back in this league. And there's really only one thing that Brown can't do - stay healthy.

Then there's Ricky Williams, who set a record last year for number of years in between 1,000 yard seasons. Witnessing Ricky's 2009 season was like watching a revival. The then 32 year old back looked like a kid again, taking over the starting role from Ronnie after he went down and simply dominating. Did he lose some steam very late in the year? Of course. But what 32 year old back wouldn't? Still, the now 33 year old provides this offense the two-headed ground attack that should again help the Dolphins run for over 2,000 yards in 2010 - something Buffalo failed to do in 2009.


Why the Bills have the better backs

As individual football players, I believe that C.J. Spiller, Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson are able to do more on the football field than Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Patrick Cobbs and Lex Hilliard - which is saying a lot, since I happen to have tremendous respect for Miami's backfield, and Williams in particular.

Brown, Williams and Cobbs have all been tremendously productive not only as rushers, but with the help of the Wildcat. Those three players have proven their worth in both facets of Miami's offense; they're all tough, fast, physical runners, and the depth of the position makes it very difficult for an opponent to stop Miami's running attack in any given game. Given the state of the two franchises, I have little doubt that Miami will field a more statistically potent rushing attack than Buffalo will in 2010.


But that doesn't mean the group of runners is better, because they're not. Lynch and Jackson have both been productive in less-than-ideal circumstances, and possess many of the same qualities that make Brown and Williams such great players. (Jackson, for example, has proven himself highly capable of operating out of a Wildcat look, as well.) Spiller, however, sets the group apart; he's the only running back in the AFC East capable of scoring from any spot on the field, at any position. His added home run ability and versatility makes Buffalo's group of runners - again, taken only from a skill standpoint - slightly better than Miami's. I'll re-iterate: that's saying a lot. These are obviously two of the more talented groups of running backs in the NFL.
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http://www.thephinsider.com/2010/7/19/1557418/afc-east-debate-dolphins-rbs-or
 
I'll take the Bills RBs, Jackson and Lynch are comparable to Ricky and ronnie- what seperates them is Spiller could be the best on either team.
 
Lets see what Spiller does at the pro level before we say he is the best out that group of 4...... Seen plenty of so called great backs out of college that did not make it once they got to the pro level. Same can go for any position.
 
Orlando Fan said:
Lets see what Spiller does at the pro level before we say he is the best out that group of 4...... Seen plenty of so called great backs out of college that did not make it once they got to the pro level. Same can go for any position.
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Agreed, a bit early to be crowning him yet as better than Hilliard or Cobbs.
 
Orlando Fan said:
Lets see what Spiller does at the pro level before we say he is the best out that group of 4...... Seen plenty of so called great backs out of college that did not make it once they got to the pro level. Same can go for any position.
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That is why I wrote "could be".

emeraldfin said:
Agreed, a bit early to be crowning him yet as better than Hilliard or Cobbs.
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I'll go out on a limb and say he will be much better than those 2. It's a little early to say he's better than the top 2 on either team but I believe he'll be in that conversation.
 
nyjunc said:
I'll go out on a limb and say he will be much better than those 2. It's a little early to say he's better than the top 2 on either team but I believe he'll be in that conversation.
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Barring injury then Spiller should be more successful, but at 185lbs and with a poor O-Line, thats not a given.
 
Can someone name ONE 185lb RB that has been great in the NFL recently? Spiller has some upside, but until he does ANYTHING he is just another guy. Lynch and Jackson? Anyone who would take those two over R&R needs there head examined.
 
FinFan 13 said:
Can someone name ONE 185lb RB that has been great in the NFL recently? Spiller has some upside, but until he does ANYTHING he is just another guy. Lynch and Jackson? Anyone who would take those two over R&R needs there head examined.
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He's listed at near 200 lbs on the Bills website and he won't be carrying the load anyway w/ those other 2 backs there.

to answer your question: Warrick Dunn
 
nyjunc said:
He's listed at near 200 lbs on the Bills website and he won't be carrying the load anyway w/ those other 2 backs there.

to answer your question: Warrick Dunn
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Uh.... Warrick Dunn....I said recently, and I don't think he EVER qualified as great. Good yes great no.

I thought you were a football fan? The team lists him at 196....Yeah well the Skins have Albert Hayneworth listed at 350, how close do you think he is to that weight. Teams list players where they want to list them.

Spiller might be good....he may also blow out a knee. Speculating on a guy who has never played a down in the NFL is just silly. Using one to rate a group of RB's is even sillier.
 
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FinFan 13 said:
Uh.... Warrick Dunn....I said recently, and I don't think he EVER qualified as great. Good yes great no.

I thought you were a football fan? The team lists him at 196....Yeah well the Skins have Albert Hayneworth listed at 350, how close do you think he is to that weight. Teams list players where they want to list them.

Spiller might be good....he may also blow out a knee. Speculating on a guy who has never played a down in the NFL is just silly. Using one to rate a group of RB's is even sillier.
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Warrick Dunn isn't recent? and no he's not an all-time great but he had as many 1,000 yd seasons as Ricky has and he has 4 more 1,000 yd seasons than Ronnie has.

Of course teams play around w/ listings of weight but every team does it so when one lists at 196 you can compare that to a listing of others at or near that weight.

Did you notcies that key word of "could" when I brought up Spiller? i wrote the top 2 on each team are close and I used Spiller to seperate them b/c Miami does not have a RB w/ his potential behind Ricky & Ronnie.
 
nyjunc said:
Warrick Dunn isn't recent? and no he's not an all-time great but he had as many 1,000 yd seasons as Ricky has and he has 4 more 1,000 yd seasons than Ronnie has.

Of course teams play around w/ listings of weight but every team does it so when one lists at 196 you can compare that to a listing of others at or near that weight.

Did you notcies that key word of "could" when I brought up Spiller? i wrote the top 2 on each team are close and I used Spiller to seperate them b/c Miami does not have a RB w/ his potential behind Ricky & Ronnie.
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He was drafted in 1997....so no he's not recent. Recent to me would be in the last 10 years. But if you are hanging your hat on WD that is fine. So you can think of one RB in the last 13 years that was "good" at that weight....Doesn't sound like the statistics are in CJ's favor does it?

I did see "could" and repeated that sentiment. The point is, using an unknown to quantify a result is ignorant at best.

You also said That Jackson and Lynch are comparable to R&R. If you would take those two over our two, well I think you are being dishonest, but that is your prerogative. Ricky is old, and Ronnie is injury prone. I would still take those two over the Bills two in a heartbeat, so would most educated football fans.
 
FinFan 13 said:
He was drafted in 1997....so no he's not recent. Recent to me would be in the last 10 years. But if you are hanging your hat on WD that is fine. So you can think of one RB in the last 13 years that was "good" at that weight....Doesn't sound like the statistics are in CJ's favor does it?

I did see "could" and repeated that sentiment. The point is, using an unknown to quantify a result is ignorant at best.

You also said That Jackson and Lynch are comparable to R&R. If you would take those two over our two, well I think you are being dishonest, but that is your prerogative. Ricky is old, and Ronnie is injury prone. I would still take those two over the Bills two in a heartbeat, so would most educated football fans.
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Ricky drafted in 1999 is recent but Dunn in 1997 isn't? Dunn last played in 2008- that isn't recent?

Would Ray Rice be recent enough for you? How about Steve Slaton, Chris Johnson, ?

I didn't say I would or wouldn't take those 2 over Ricky and Ronnie but they are in the ballpark. I Might take the Buf duo since Ronnie is always hurt but I never said one way or the other. You guys act like Ricky and ronnie are Jim Brown and Barry Sanders. In the last 5 NFL seasons Ricky has one 1,000 yd season(2009 and he wore down late in the year) while Ronnie has one barely over 1,000 yd season in his career. It is possible for other duos to be as good as them.
 
nyjunc said:
Ricky drafted in 1999 is recent but Dunn in 1997 isn't? Dunn last played in 2008- that isn't recent?

Would Ray Rice be recent enough for you? How about Steve Slaton, Chris Johnson, ?

I didn't say I would or wouldn't take those 2 over Ricky and Ronnie but they are in the ballpark. I Might take the Buf duo since Ronnie is always hurt but I never said one way or the other. You guys act like Ricky and ronnie are Jim Brown and Barry Sanders. In the last 5 NFL seasons Ricky has one 1,000 yd season(2009 and he wore down late in the year) while Ronnie has one barely over 1,000 yd season in his career. It is possible for other duos to be as good as them.
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WOW, you really have zero knowledge about football. Ray Rice....Chris Johnson.... Steve Slaton.....Do you even have a clue what they weigh? Here's a hint...you should have looked it up.... Off the top off my head I know Johnson is listed at 205, and Rice and Slaton are both in the 210-215lb range. Care to try again? Knowledge of the game is fundamental.

What does Ricky, a 230lb RB have to do with WD a 185lb one.... I see you are still up to your habit of twisting every conversation to somehow make sense for you.... Do you ever get tired of being proven wrong, or is it just you are incapable of admitting it?

As far as R&R, yeah you're right....They aren't any good. I'd take two guys that haven't proven anything in the NFL over them...yeah that's it. By the way, since you want to throw out stats on R&R, why is it you didn't post the Jills duo's stats? Oh that's right.....because they suck....Go back to GG homer.

R&R are better than Jim Brown and Barry Sanders, I say that all the time. In fact, I think I'll make it my new sig......

Damn Jest fans are too delusional. You can't win an argument so you throw out ridiculous statements and put words in people's mouth's.
 
FinFan 13 said:
WOW, you really have zero knowledge about football. Ray Rice....Chris Johnson.... Steve Slaton.....Do you even have a clue what they weigh? Here's a hint...you should have looked it up.... Off the top off my head I know Johnson is listed at 205, and Rice and Slaton are both in the 210-215lb range. Care to try again? Knowledge of the game is fundamental.

What does Ricky, a 230lb RB have to do with WD a 185lb one.... I see you are still up to your habit of twisting every conversation to somehow make sense for you.... Do you ever get tired of being proven wrong, or is it just you are incapable of admitting it?

As far as R&R, yeah you're right....They aren't any good. I'd take two guys that haven't proven anything in the NFL over them...yeah that's it. By the way, since you want to throw out stats on R&R, why is it you didn't post the Jills duo's stats? Oh that's right.....because they suck....Go back to GG homer.

R&R are better than Jim Brown and Barry Sanders, I say that all the time. In fact, I think I'll make it my new sig......

Damn Jest fans are too delusional. You can't win an argument so you throw out ridiculous statements and put words in people's mouth's.
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I actually did look it up(at pro-football-reference.com) and they are all listed at 195 lbs. at NFL.com Johnson is listed at 200 lbs(the other 2 are listed int he 210 range), 4 more lbs than Spiller but of course those 4 lbs make all the difference just like the 2 years makes w/ Dunn:rolleyes2:

Ricky at his size has nothing to do w/ it but you are claiming Dunn isn't a recent player and he was drafted just 2 years before Ricky who is still playing and only one NFL season has been played w/o him but b/c it didn't fit yoyr argument you dismiss him as evidence.


When have I been proven wrong? You asked for a recent example of a player Spiller's size and I gave you one but after YOU were proven wrong you made up your own rules.



Ricky/Ronnie 2008-2009: 762 carries, 3344 yds, 4.4 YPC,
Lynch/Jackson 2008-2009: 737 carries, 3119 yds, 4.2 YPC

If I knew Ronnie was healthy, I'd take Ricky and Ronnie as the duo but Ronnie is always hurt. That is a huge factor but instead of acknowledging that you'd rather hurl insults. I get it, that is what many posters do when they are proven wrong.
 
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