AFC East Debate: Dolphins RBs or Bills RBs?

[nyjunc]

Rk Player Team Pos Att Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Lng 1st 1st% 20+ 40+ FUM
13
Ronnie Brown MIA RB 147 16.3 648 4.4 72.0 8 45 32 21.8 3 1 1
















15 Ricky Williams MIA RB 241 15.1 1,121 4.7 70.1 11 68T 55 22.8 4 2 4
17 Fred Jackson BUF RB 237 14.8 1,062 4.5 66.4 2 43 43 18.1 5 1 2
48 Marshawn Lynch BUF RB 120 9.2 450 3.8 34.6 2 47 18 15.0 2 1 3


These are last years stats....nuff said.

Last year combined:

Ricky/Ronnie: 388 carries, 1769 yds, 4.6 YPC
Jackson/lynch: 357 carries, 1512 yds, 4.2 YPC

Ricky/Ronnie were slightly better w/ a vastly superior OL. How is this "nuff said"? and you are questioning others knowledge of the game?

 

[FinFan 13]

I actually did look it up(at pro-football-reference.com) and they are all listed at 195 lbs. at NFL.com Johnson is listed at 200 lbs(the other 2 are listed int he 210 range), 4 more lbs than Spiller but of course those 4 lbs make all the difference just like the 2 years makes w/ Dunn:rolleyes2:

I never dismissed DUNN, you should probably try to comprehend what is said before you reply. It may be helpful.

Ricky at his size has nothing to do w/ it but you are claiming Dunn isn't a recent player and he was drafted just 2 years before Ricky who is still playing and only one NFL season has been played w/o him but b/c it didn't fit yoyr argument you dismiss him as evidence.

What does this nonsense have to do with anything? I asked for a recent 185lb player who was great.....You came back with Dunn, fine I said he wasn't great, you agreed. You then tried to lump legitimate 200lb+ players in with Spiller. You are wrong. Simple enough.

s.When have I been proven wrong? You asked for a recent example of a player Spiller's size and I gave you one but after YOU were proven wrong you made up your own rule

No I asked for Great players at Spillers size, and you came back with Dunn. So who was wrong again? I think we both know....:)

Ricky/Ronnie 2008-2009: 762 carries, 3344 yds, 4.4 YPC,
Lynch/Jackson 2008-2009: 737 carries, 3119 yds, 4.2 YPC

If I knew Ronnie was healthy, I'd take Ricky and Ronnie as the duo but Ronnie is always hurt. That is a huge factor but instead of acknowledging that you'd rather hurl insults. I get it, that is what many posters do when they are proven wrong.

I see you left out things like TD's off your stats. Good thinking on your part. R&R had 19 Td's last year alone....This compared to 4 for Lynch and Jackson......

I was the one who mentioned Ricky's age and Ronnie's injury questions. Again, if you want to talk football you should probably read the posts. As far as Injury status, you mean like Marshawn only getting 120 carries last year...like that? Just admit you would take our two over theirs and move on. All this nonsense and you still want to argue? There is no comparison, other than the one you try and create. Our two (when healthy) are studs, their two (when healthy) are just guys. Nobody fears the Jills RB's. Teams gameplan around our's.

 

[FinFan 13]

Last year combined:

Ricky/Ronnie: 388 carries, 1769 yds, 4.6 YPC
Jackson/lynch: 357 carries, 1512 yds, 4.2 YPC

Ricky/Ronnie were slightly better w/ a vastly superior OL. How is this "nuff said"? and you are questioning others knowledge of the game?

Why did you leave out the most important stats? The TD's? 19-4. I don't have to question your knowledge, you do that all by yourself.

 

[nyjunc]

I never dismissed DUNN, you should probably try to comprehend what is said before you reply. It may be helpful.



What does this nonsense have to do with anything? I asked for a recent 185lb player who was great.....You came back with Dunn, fine I said he wasn't great, you agreed. You then tried to lump legitimate 200lb+ players in with Spiller. You are wrong. Simple enough.



No I asked for Great players at Spillers size, and you came back with Dunn. So who was wrong again? I think we both know....:)





I see you left out things like TD's off your stats. Good thinking on your part. R&R had 19 Td's last year alone....This compared to 5 for Lynch and Jackson......

I was the one who mentioned Ricky's age and Ronnie's injury questions. Again, if you want to talk football you should probably read the posts. As far as Injury status, you mean like Marshawn only getting 120 carries last year...like that? Just admit you would take our two over theirs and move on. All this nonsense and you still want to argue? There is no comparison, other than the one you try and create. Our two (when healthy) are studs, their two (when healthy) are just guys. Nobody fears the Jills RB's. Teams gameplan around our's.

You are very angry today, how about just debating like an adult?

and you did dismiss dunn saying he wasn't recent enough.

You didn't say fine Dunn was ok to use, you made multiple excuses before eventually syaing he was ok and that he was just one player.

Other examples in the last decade?

Tiki Barber
Chris Johnson
Leon Washington(not a feature back but a very productive player before his freak injury)
Jones-Drew is only listed at 208
Julius Jones 208
Westbrook 203


I went by what the weights were listed at a particular site. Chris Johnson is listed at just 4 lbs heavier than Spiller but Buffalo lies about their weights and ten does not, right?



Dunn was a really good player, Dunn had a better career than Ricky or Ronnie and that is what this debate is about, right? It'snot about great players, none of the players on Buf or Miami are considered great so why would we have to compare Spiller to a truly great player?



Buf's OL sucks, Buf scored 16 PPG, there werenalot of opportunities to score.



you sure are spending alot of time to prove nothing. My point from the beginning was that the top 2 on each team are close and that no one on Miami has the potential of spiller behind them so I'd give them the edge especially when you factor in the OLs. It's amazing, all offseason I hear how great your OL is but when it comes to a debate like this where OL is critical you ignore it.

 

[nyjunc]

Why did you leave out the most important stats? The TD's? 19-4. I don't have to question your knowledge, you do that all by yourself.

The most important stat is TDs? why? b/c your guys scored more? Buf's was was pathetic led by a brutal OL. Miami had a decent O led by a very good OL. Considering you know it all I shouldn't have to explaint he difference to you. keep pumping yourself up acting like you got something over on me but you are spouting off useless posts for an argument I never made.

 

[FinFan 13]

You are very angry today, how about just debating like an adult?

and you did dismiss dunn saying he wasn't recent enough.

You didn't say fine Dunn was ok to use, you made multiple excuses before eventually syaing he was ok and that he was just one player.

Other examples in the last decade?

Tiki Barber
Chris Johnson
Leon Washington(not a feature back but a very productive player before his freak injury)
Jones-Drew is only listed at 208
Julius Jones 208
Westbrook 203


I went by what the weights were listed at a particular site. Chris Johnson is listed at just 4 lbs heavier than Spiller but Buffalo lies about their weights and ten does not, right?



Dunn was a really good player, Dunn had a better career than Ricky or Ronnie and that is what this debate is about, right? It'snot about great players, none of the players on Buf or Miami are considered great so why would we have to compare Spiller to a truly great player?



Buf's OL sucks, Buf scored 16 PPG, there werenalot of opportunities to score.



you sure are spending alot of time to prove nothing. My point from the beginning was that the top 2 on each team are close and that no one on Miami has the potential of spiller behind them so I'd give them the edge especially when you factor in the OLs. It's amazing, all offseason I hear how great your OL is but when it comes to a debate like this where OL is critical you ignore it.

Dunn had a better career than Ricky? I think you better go look at the stats. Dunn has more yards(barely)....But he played in 66 more games. Ricky has 13 more TD's in 66 less games and is still playing. Ricky has and will have a much better career than Dunn.

You are the only one who thinks it is close between ours and theirs. If you polled the 32 teams in the NFL, how many would take ours over theirs...probably 90%.

You have already said you would take ours(healthy). So why are you arguing? Lynch is just as big a health risk as brown, so that point is moot.

If you go back to my original post, my only statement was that Spiller is an unknown, and that no-one would take the Jill's RB's over ours. Do you deny these two statements?

 

[FinFan 13]

The most important stat is TDs? why? b/c your guys scored more? Buf's was was pathetic led by a brutal OL. Miami had a decent O led by a very good OL. Considering you know it all I shouldn't have to explaint he difference to you. keep pumping yourself up acting like you got something over on me but you are spouting off useless posts for an argument I never made.

Maybe because TD's are points and points win games?

You tell me....If you have two 1000 yard RB's and one scores 11 TD's and one scores 2, who had a better year? Who would be considered the better RB?

 

[nyjunc]

Dunn had a better career than Ricky? I think you better go look at the stats. Dunn has more yards(barely)....But he played in 66 more games. Ricky has 13 more TD's in 66 less games and is still playing. Ricky has and will have a much better career than Dunn.

You are the only one who thinks it is close between ours and theirs. If you polled the 32 teams in the NFL, how many would take ours over theirs...probably 90%.

You have already said you would take ours(healthy). So why are you arguing? Lynch is just as big a health risk as brown, so that point is moot.

If you go back to my original post, my only statement was that Spiller is an unknown, and that no-one would take the Jill's RB's over ours. Do you deny these two statements?

Ricky and Dunn average the same YPC and that only figures to go down for Ricky as he is hitting the twilight of his career.

TDs are great but they don't tell the whole story, In Tampa he shared w/ Mike Alstott who in 800 less attempts has nearly as many TDs as Ricky does. In Atlanta he had TJ Duckett to take TDs away from him.

Ricky SHOULD have had a HOF career but he wasted his incredible talent.


I disagree w/ you, I think the top 2 are close enough wher a talent like Spiller would push most GMs to take Buf's RBs. If OL's were equal this wouldn't even be a debate.


I have stated my main point over and over, you argued something different to try to feel like you were getting one over on me.


actually this was your orogonal post:

"Can someone name ONE 185lb RB that has been great in the NFL recently? Spiller has some upside, but until he does ANYTHING he is just another guy. Lynch and Jackson? Anyone who would take those two over R&R needs there head examined. "

That is very different from:

"my only statement was that Spiller is an unknown"


I agree we don't know what Spiller will do but w/ his potential and w/ Ronnie's injury history and the talent of the Buf top 2 I thionk most GMs would pick BUF's RBs. if it was top 2 vs. top 2 most would pick Miami but would be fearful of another Brown injury.

Maybe because TD's are points and points win games?

You tell me....If you have two 1000 yard RB's and one scores 11 TD's and one scores 2, who had a better year? Who would be considered the better RB?

It's not always blakc and white. The Bills OL was atrocious, they didn't have many opportunities to score. Ricky and Ronnie had a better year than Lynch and Jackson last year but if all things were equal I believe the 2 Buf RBs could have put up similar rushing #s. Ronnie and Ricky are more versaitle in that Miami O but as far as running the football I think the 4 are pretty close.

 

[FinFan 13]

Ricky and Dunn average the same YPC and that only figures to go down for Ricky as he is hitting the twilight of his career.

TDs are great but they don't tell the whole story, In Tampa he shared w/ Mike Alstott who in 800 less attempts has nearly as many TDs as Ricky does. In Atlanta he had TJ Duckett to take TDs away from him.

Ricky SHOULD have had a HOF career but he wasted his incredible talent.

If by "wasted" you mean fixed his life, I agree. Football is a great sport, but it's just a sport, Ricky wanted more.....If you don't like, or accept that, it's your problem not his.

I disagree w/ you, I think the top 2 are close enough wher a talent like Spiller would push most GMs to take Buf's RBs. If OL's were equal this wouldn't even be a debate.


I have stated my main point over and over, you argued something different to try to feel like you were getting one over on me.

Nobody argued anything different. Spiller is no talent....He hasn't done jack. Maybe he'll be good, maybe he won't. Using him as a gauge for anything is idiotic.

actually this was your orogonal post:

"Can someone name ONE 185lb RB that has been great in the NFL recently? Spiller has some upside, but until he does ANYTHING he is just another guy. Lynch and Jackson? Anyone who would take those two over R&R needs there head examined. "

That is very different from:

"my only statement was that Spiller is an unknown"

Really? Very different? Not trying to be mean here but your reading comprehension is not so good. Let's see: "Spiller has some upside, but until he does ANYTHING he is just another guy." and "Spiller is an unknown" sound about exactly the same to me. How exactly are these statements different?

I agree we don't know what Spiller will do but w/ his potential and w/ Ronnie's injury history and the talent of the Buf top 2 I thionk most GMs would pick BUF's RBs. if it was top 2 vs. top 2 most would pick Miami but would be fearful of another Brown injury.

Lynch is just a big of an injury risk as Brown. In fact they have both missed about the same number of games in their career. So again, that point is moot. I have only ever included the top two, because again Spiller is an unknown. So you just re-enforced what I have been saying all along.

It's not always blakc and white. The Bills OL was atrocious, they didn't have many opportunities to score. Ricky and Ronnie had a better year than Lynch a
nd Jackson last year but if all things were equal I believe the 2 Buf RBs could have put up similar rushing #s. Ronnie and Ricky are more versaitle in that Miami O but as far as running the football I think the 4 are pretty close.

And that is your opinion, and you are completely entitled to it. But by your logic the year before last we had a terrible OL injuries killed us, yet R&R still put up good numbers, and got much more TD's. So that logic doesn't always work. R&R are better RB's, better all-around football players, than Lynch or Jackson will ever be. If you doubt that, I don't know what to tell ya.

 

[nyjunc]

If by "wasted" you mean fixed his life, I agree. Football is a great sport, but it's just a sport, Ricky wanted more.....If you don't like, or accept that, it's your problem not his.




Nobody argued anything different. Spiller is no talent....He hasn't done jack. Maybe he'll be good, maybe he won't. Using him as a gauge for anything is idiotic.



Really? Very different? Not trying to be mean here but your reading comprehension is not so good. Let's see: "Spiller has some upside, but until he does ANYTHING he is just another guy." and "Spiller is an unknown" sound about exactly the same to me. How exactly are these statements different?




Lynch is just a big of an injury risk as Brown. In fact they have both missed about the same number of games in their career. So again, that point is moot. I have only ever included the top two, because again Spiller is an unknown. So you just re-enforced what I have been saying all along.




And that is your opinion, and you are completely entitled to it. But by your logic the year before last we had a terrible OL injuries killed us, yet R&R still put up good numbers, and got much more TD's. So that logic doesn't always work. R&R are better RB's, better all-around football players, than Lynch or Jackson will ever be. If you doubt that, I don't know what to tell ya.

Got his life in order? Getting the multiple kids w/ the multiple women in order? He wouldn't be playing if he didn't need the money and he wouldn't need the money if he didn't walk out on them. I couldn't care less what the man does, we all know he's not a good person but an immesne talent on the football field. The fact the he screwed up his career and he'll be broke soon after playing is his problem not mine.


Spiller is a talent, whether he plays up to that talent remians to be seen but he is a major talent.



You were deflecting using his size against him. Those 2 statements were not the in the same ballpark. My reading comprhension is just fine, I think it might be the writer that is the problem- no offense.


Lynch has missed 5 games in 3 years, Brown has missed more than 5 in TWO different seasons. In total he has missed 19 games in 5 seasons. Lynch averages under 2 missed games a year, Brown more than double that.

Brown only played 7 games in 2007, he was having a GREAT year but 7 games doesn't prove anything. Ricky barely played in 2007


I have never said Ricky and Ronnie are not more talent backs than Jackson and Lynch.

 

[FinFan 13]

Got his life in order? Getting the multiple kids w/ the multiple women in order? He wouldn't be playing if he didn't need the money and he wouldn't need the money if he didn't walk out on them. I couldn't care less what the man does, we all know he's not a good person but an immesne talent on the football field. The fact the he screwed up his career and he'll be broke soon after playing is his problem not mine.

Say's the guy who needs to troll other teams sites....

You were deflecting using his size against him. Those 2 statements were not the in the same ballpark. My reading comprhension is just fine, I think it might be the writer that is the problem- no offense.

None taken, I didn't expect you to comprehend.


L

ynch has missed 5 games in 3 years, Brown has missed more than 5 in TWO different seasons. In total he has missed 19 games in 5 seasons. Lynch averages under 2 missed games a year, Brown more than double that.

Wow, I thought he was injured for most of last year. So he played in 13 games and still only got 120 Att for 450 yards and 2 TD's. Man he is good....LMAO. Keep right on making my points for me.

Brown only played 7 games in 2007, he was having a GREAT year but 7 games doesn't prove anything. Ricky barely played in 2007

Yeah it proves GOOD RB's get yards and TD's even behind bad lines, just ask Barry Sanders. There goes another one of your incorrect arguments.

I have never said Ricky and Ronnie are not more talent backs than Jackson and Lynch.

Well at least you have that going for you.....

 

[nyjunc]

Say's the guy who needs to troll other teams sites....




None taken, I didn't expect you to comprehend.


L

Wow, I thought he was injured for most of last year. So he played in 13 games and still only got 120 Att for 450 yards and 2 TD's. Man he is good....LMAO. Keep right on making my points for me.




Yeah it proves GOOD RB's get yards and TD's even behind bad lines, just ask Barry Sanders. There goes another one of your incorrect arguments.




Well at least you have that going for you.....

I'm a valued member of this message board and even if one considers me a torll that is not comparable to a guy who Fathers multiple kids w/ multiple women out of wedlock. I wasn't blessed w/ the incredible ability to play football like Ricky but I can say w/ 100% confidnece I am a better person than Ricky.


I don't know the specifics about Lynch, I know he was hurt then had some off field problems so he lost his job to jackson. He didn't get the carries he normally would have which was hwy he wasn't as productive.


Barry Sanders had good OLs year in and year out. jesse Chatman averaged 4 YPC in 2007 so how bad could your OL have really been?

You love crownign yourself considering the info you bring has nothing to do w/ the argument. You are cracking me up, keep it up

 

[FinFan 13]

I'm a valued member of this message board and even if one considers me a torll that is not comparable to a guy who Fathers multiple kids w/ multiple women out of wedlock. I wasn't blessed w/ the incredible ability to play football like Ricky but I can say w/ 100% confidnece I am a better person than Ricky.


I don't know the specifics about Lynch, I know he was hurt then had some off field problems so he lost his job to jackson. He didn't get the carries he normally would have which was hwy he wasn't as productive.


Barry Sanders had good OLs year in and year out. jesse Chatman averaged 4 YPC in 2007 so how bad could your OL have really been?

You love crownign yourself considering the info you bring has nothing to do w/ the argument. You are cracking me up, keep it up

How old are you? Clearly not old enough to remember when Barry played. He had good OL's? That is hysterical. That must be why he was always breaking tackles in his own backfield, it was the great play of his awesome OL's. It was their plan all along to allow every defender into their backfield so Barry could make them look bad..... Your knowledge is showing. :)

There is no argument, you lost. Did you forget already?

Yeah Ricky is such a bad man, how dare he have 5 kids with different women. You are so much better than him, it's obvious....

You're making it too easy, try harder.

 

[nyjunc]

How old are you? Clearly not old enough to remember when Barry played. He had good OL's? That is hysterical. That must be why he was always breaking tackles in his own backfield, it was the great play of his awesome OL's. It was their plan all along to allow every defender into their backfield so Barry could make them look bad..... Your knowledge is showing. :)

There is no argument, you lost. Did you forget already?

Yeah Ricky is such a bad man, how dare he have 3 kids with 2 different women. You are so much better than him, it's obvious....

You're making it too easy, try harder.

I'm not sure where this notion came from that Barry didn't have an OL. Just b/c he changed direction and didn't always follow his blocks does not mean he didn't have good OLs. he had good OLs for the majority of his career w/ guys like Lomas Brown and Kevin Glover.

Ron Rivers averaged 4.3 YPC in detroit.
Derrick Moore averaged 4 YPC w/ Det

They had good OLs and you are digging yourself deeper and deeper here. My knowledge and your knowledge are showing.


Did you see that documentary on Ricky? His own Mother thinks he's a jerk. Pretend he is a Jet, then you could remove your homer glasses and see the guy for what he is.

 

[nyjunc]

How old are you? Clearly not old enough to remember when Barry played. He had good OL's? That is hysterical. That must be why he was always breaking tackles in his own backfield, it was the great play of his awesome OL's. It was their plan all along to allow every defender into their backfield so Barry could make them look bad..... Your knowledge is showing. :)

There is no argument, you lost. Did you forget already?

Yeah Ricky is such a bad man, how dare he have 5 kids with different women. You are so much better than him, it's obvious....

You're making it too easy, try harder.

I love the editing. If you knew what you were talking about you wouldn't have to edit so much. Look up the info before you click "submit reply"