Anyone here think Foles is better than Tannehill?

[Vaark]

I've never felt nervous when Tannehill was throwing from a clean pocket, he basically never makes dumb mistakes when there's no pressure around. I understand that could be said of a lot of the starters in this league, but after watching the kind of protection Foles enjoyed in the playoffs, there's no doubt in my mind Tannehill would at least do as good in that setting. I mean seriously, before calling me a homer, go back and watch the passing plays, I havent seen this type of pass blocking in Miami for 5+ years, Foles consistently had 4-5 seconds to throw the ball.

And it's not like Foles took the Eagles on his back and dragged them to the playoffs either... he had a whopping 79.5 rating in the regular season with a 5.3 Y/A...

I keep harping on the fact that in 2016, Tannehill had the 4th best QBR from a clean pocket - and that depending on which resource used, he was either the 2nd or 3rd most accurate deep ball passer in the league - much to the obvious chagrin of the Pavlovian Tannedroolers who try to discount these real and pertinent stats as "irrelevant." (so not giving a flying ****, I will continue to cite them ad nauseum)

No one expects a clean pocket frequently, but it's not unreasonable to expect a cleaner pocket than the usual bottom-dwelling OLs that Tannehill has mostly had to contend with. As evidence Dak Prescott, 2016 flavor of the month with one of the elite OLs and an elite running game looked pretty damn good; last season with injuries to some of the OL and deprived of his all world RB for 6 games, not so great.

Now no one can predict whether Tannehill's mobility, a strong part of his game aside from accuracy and pin point throws will return as such... or even that he can stay healthy. But assuming he can, from what we've seen including his deep ball chemistry with Stills, fix the ****ing OL once and for all, and stock it with durable players who aren't China Dolls like Albert and Pouncey, and only then can we get a true reading of whether or not Tannehill is the real deal.

 

[NBP81]

I don't think its a dumb mistake, like you said don't know if he over threw parker or Parker under ran the route. I also didn't mean to post that one...i was trying to get the Bengals game.

Hey that's fine I'll give this one too to you....The left guard got driven right in his face, but you know what, that's a dumb decision regardless... It doesn't really matter to the point Im trying to make anyway. Working behind the best OL in the NFL greatly benefits any QB... And that after just watching every throw Foles made in the Atlanta playoff game, not even one of them required above average talent, from an accuracy standpoint all the way to his pocket presence. The 2 difficult plays he had to make, one fell incomplete and the other bounced right on a DBs leg into another receiver...
Watch the protection and tell me Miami's OL is even close to giving any of our QBs that comfort level...

 

[superphin]

Hey that's fine I'll give this one too to you....The left guard got driven right in his face, but you know what, that's a dumb decision regardless... It doesn't really matter to the point Im trying to make anyway. Working behind the best OL in the NFL greatly benefits any QB... And that after just watching every throw Foles made in the Atlanta playoff game, not even one of them required above average talent, from an accuracy standpoint all the way to his pocket presence. The 2 difficult plays he had to make, one fell incomplete and the other bounced right on a DBs leg into another receiver...
Watch the protection and tell me Miami's OL is even close to giving any of our QBs that comfort level...

Oh for sure working behind the best OL is going to benefit the QB greatly, I in no way think Foles is better than Tanny because of his superbowl performance. My point was more Tannehill does make dumb mistakes at times even behind a clean pocket, but thats probably true for 30 of 32 QB's.

Bengals one is iffy, I think he committed to that throw before pressure showed up and regardless of pressure it was not going to end well.

 

[NBP81]

Oh for sure working behind the best OL is going to benefit the QB greatly, I in no way think Foles is better than Tanny because of his superbowl performance. My point was more Tannehill does make dumb mistakes at times even behind a clean pocket, but thats probably true for 30 of 32 QB's.

Bengals one is iffy, I think he committed to that throw before pressure showed up and regardless of pressure it was not going to end well.

He did, not sure if that's the specific game Im thinking but he sucked all game in that one and so did the OL IIRC... Hell if that's the one Im thinking, they proceded to cut Dallas Thomas and Turner a couple of games after that one... About ****ing time if you ask me...

 

[CA Dolfan]

I"m not going to say one way or the other but he made some amazing throws especially the ones between two defenders. I was impressed with how fast he got the ball out on some of those plays.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Oh for sure working behind the best OL is going to benefit the QB greatly, I in no way think Foles is better than Tanny because of his superbowl performance. My point was more Tannehill does make dumb mistakes at times even behind a clean pocket, but thats probably true for 30 of 32 QB's.

Bengals one is iffy, I think he committed to that throw before pressure showed up and regardless of pressure it was not going to end well.

make that 32 of 32.

 

[JPPT1974]

Well it will depend on how much they show Foles the money?!

 

[Third Eye]

Wrong, There are way to many variables to come to such a simplistic conclusion. Why even have 11 ppl on the field?


Look, I'm done with this. I told myself to stop getting sucked in to these stupid *** arguments. It's not like any of us have even remotely swayed the other side. Until the Dolphins are consistently good, we're all going to point to what we think is wrong with the team. I'll just leave it at that.

There's plenty wrong with this team. It's across the board. And QB is one of them.

A big time QB would mask a lot of these problems and make a few go away. And we would win more.

Tannehill is not this guy. He needs every unit to be great and then, maybe then, he can win.

 

[Third Eye]

Nick Foles was great and deserves all the accolades. But he is a system QB, otherwise he would shine with the Rams, his previous last year in Philly and even in KC. I know Alex Smith was the starter in KC but he was not that great back then, at least not the level of Foles in Sunday's Super bowl. In today's NFL, you have to be smart first and an average athlete will do because there is just a lot of scheming and game planning unlike before in my opinion. It is more like who can outsmart the other. We saw that in the Superbowl on Sunday. To compare one QB to another is difficult because of the systems they play in, not to mention the talent around them. Personally, I don't think Foles is better than Tannehill in Miami's system and vice versa.

Maybe we all need to ask if RT started this year as Wentz backup and actually had the ability to come in and play last four games then make a playoff run culminating in a super bowl win over the patriots?

Some of you will say with this supporting cast and a coach who calls these plays and a team like this, yes he would've.

Honestly, I've seen no glimpses of RT being able to do this on the largest stages and on the road.

Some of you will not give up on him. I get it. It's hard to give up on a first round QB. It's showtime in 2018 RT. Get it done and forget the excuses. I think I already know the outcome.

 

[superphin]

There's plenty wrong with this team. It's across the board. And QB is one of them.

A big time QB would mask a lot of these problems and make a few go away. And we would win more.

Tannehill is not this guy. He needs every unit to be great and then, maybe then, he can win.

Would you say any unit on the team in 2016 was great?

 

[Michael Scott]

Gase will turn him into the game manager that everyone thought he was before Pederson unleashed him.

Pederson is a significantly better coach than Adam Gase. Therefore, I'm not sure we get the best out of him utilizing him in an offense dependent upon bubble screens.

 

[Third Eye]

I see you abandoned the Nick Foles argument and went with a draft pick argument, which I can get behind. I'd rather spend the draft resources elsewhere, but I'd be much happier with a young rookie QB than Foles.

However, to your above post, I had an argument earlier in this thread that noted the fact that Brees had 3 straight 7-9 seasons before their playoff run this year when they assembled a better Defense and got a rising star in Kamara in the 3rd round.

So how did you feel about Brees those 3 years?

I only abandoned Foles v RT because there is no convincing you guys that cling to the RT pipe dream. Is Foles my long term answer? Would I even try to trade for him? No to both. I'm saying if I could have either for the next four years I'd take Foles. His numbers while up and down like RT just show me he is better and the eye test confirms it.

RT to me has always been an althlete playing QB but not a naturally trained or coached QB. His pocket presence is bad. Never had had a feel for the rush or a good progression through the routes. I have seen enough to know that his ceiling is limited.

Now to the Brees 2014-2016 seasons. His QBR was 97, 101 and 101.7 consecutively in those years. Numbers RT has never reached for a season and likely never for any real stretch of games. The Saints were average and went 7-9 pretty much those three years. Which tells me his QB play as good as it was could not overcome the rest of the teams weaknesses.

I'm sure you're ready to pounce on his W-L record but keep in mind W-L for a QB is an indicator. Over time. Brees has won a whole lot more than he's lost. And a whole lot of that has to do with himself.

 

[Third Eye]

Would you say any unit on the team in 2016 was great?

RT went 8-5 against a lot of crappy teams with wins that were in many cases lucky. It's a fluke. An anomaly. Stop banking on a fluke win streak to repeat itself.

RT will be back to being RT come week 1.

 

[superphin]

RT went 8-5 against a lot of crappy teams with wins that were in many cases lucky. It's a fluke. An anomaly. Stop banking on a fluke win streak to repeat itself.

RT will be back to being RT come week 1.

Ok but would you say any unit on the team was great in 2016?

 

[Zounds]

All I know is Doug Pederson is a much better play caller than Adam Gase.