Belichick Pulls Brady, Starters Before 2min. Warning. | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Belichick Pulls Brady, Starters Before 2min. Warning.

nyjunc said:
:lol: You are funny man. I took you seriously and debated w/ you for a while but why? You are just trying to get me going, I'm sorry I didn't see it earlier. There's just no way possible an intelligent football fan can present an argument as weak as you presented.
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This is dumbazz speak for, "You got me but I'm not man enough to admit it so I'll bow out now with the old, you're dumb move."

I shouldn't expect anything intelligent to come out of a Jets fan. I wish you would have said sooner that your mom was a Jets fan. ;)

What the hell. I'll give you one more try.

How do YOU measure a QB? What do you use in order to prove your points? I'm serious here. Tell me how you go about thinking that Brady is better than Manning or even on the same planet as him.
 
MarinePhinFan said:
This is dumbazz speak for, "You got me but I'm not man enough to admit it so I'll bow out now with the old, you're dumb move."

I shouldn't expect anything intelligent to come out of a Jets fan. I wish you would have said sooner that your mom was a Jets fan. ;)

What the hell. I'll give you one more try.

How do YOU measure a QB? What do you use in order to prove your points? I'm serious here. Tell me how you go about thinking that Brady is better than Manning or even on the same planet as him.
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Yep you got me. After all Manning had ratings in the 90s his last 2 playoff losses so he must have been great! never mind he threw TWO critical INTs at the SD GL and the team lost by just 4 in 2007, never mind he made one play all game at 8-8 SD last year then needing just one 1st down to seal the game he couldn't lead them.

Never mind he's been one and done an astounding SIX times compared to ZERO for Brady, never mind he's lost THREE home playoff games compared to ZERO for Brady, never mind he's led his team to an AVERAGE of less than 14 PPG in their 8 playoff losses, never mind the difference in actual points allowed per game is less than 2 per game btw the Indy and NE D's, never mind that NE was a sinking ship before Brady rescued them, never mind that Belichcik is a complete failure as a HC without Brady.

You got me, you are right- Manning is clearly better:lol2:
 
MarinePhinFan said:
How do YOU measure a QB? What do you use in order to prove your points? I'm serious here. Tell me how you go about thinking that Brady is better than Manning or even on the same planet as him.
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I didn't see this.

I should be asking you that question but I know the asnwer- meaingless reg season fantasy #s.


When I evaluate QBs I look at more than just the #s, great #s are nice but don't forget he has had MUCH better offensive talent around him and played more than half his games in domes. I weigh what QBs do in big spots in january more heavily than what they do in a "big game" in October.

I have watched Manning year after year after year fail in big spots in January and I have watched year after year after year Brady come through in January.

I saw my 9-7 Jets SHUT OUT Peyton in the 2002 playoffs while he had Edge to hand it to and Harrison, Wayne and pollard to throw to.

I saw my 10-6 Jets give up 30 to Brady in the playoffs when he his top 2 WRs were Jabar gaffney and Reche Caldwell.


I have seen Brady win TWO SBs w/ Antowain Smith as his starting RB and throwing to average WRs like Troy Brown, David Patten, Deion Branch and Bethel Johnson.

I have seen NE's supposed top D blow a 14 pt 4th qtr lead against SL and then watched Brady take over at his own 17 w/ NO timeouts w/ just 1:21 to play and lead them to the GW FG.

I have watched NE's supposed top D allow 19 4th qtr pts against carolina in the SB only to watch Brady keep leading his O to pts until finally they put it away w/ another last second kick.

I wacthed Brady finally get weapons comparable to Manning and watched hims et records w/ those weapons then watched him lead his team to 16-0 and a SB trip. I also watched him have a bad SB game but when the chips were down he led his O 80 yds for the go ahead score in the last 2 1/2 mins only to watch that supposed great D blow it.

I have NEVER seen peyton Manning lead his team to late pts to tie or take the lead in a playoff game only to watch his D blow it.



There are many different types of fans, some look at the stat sheets and see great #s and proclaim certain guys better than others. Other fan look at everything andsee how the grat QBs perform when the moments are biggest. Brady and Manning are both great stat QBs but only one of them has consistently been a great QB when the pressure is greatest.

If manning didn't have SB caliber talent around him my opinion would be different but he does. Every year both teams are near the top of the AFC, Brady has 4 SB apps while Manning has just 1.

reg season win %:
Brady: 94-28(76%)
Manning: 129-59(69%)

postseason win %:
Brady: 14-3(82 %)
Manning: 7-8(47%)


So they both have the talent to win in the reg season but not postseason? I don't buy it.

Both teams have been SB caliber for most of the last decade, the difference has been the play at QB in January.
 
maybe it's the supporting cast and the tunrovers...although even when brady makes turnovers, as in the san diego game last year, the defense steps up and helps him out. heck, sometimes the offense does, as in the san diego game the year before when they forced a fumble after brady threw an interception.

does brady have fewer turnovers because he is allowed to play it safer when the defense helps give him a lead, and are peyton's increase in turnovers due to trying to come from behind? that turnovers helping the defense cuts both ways: a solid defense will mean the qb gets to play while in the lead more often and has to take fewer chances.

looking at it from the other perspective: how does each team do when they score a certain number of points? in brady's 17 playoff games they have been held under 14 points twice and are 0-2 in those games. they have scored 15 to 21 points 5 times and are 5-0 in those games. when they score 22 to 24 points they are 4-0. when they score over 24 points they are 5-1. the notion that the pats are routinely scoring 30 points to win playoff games is provably false.

now for manning...the colts have been held under 14 points 3 times and are 0-3 in those games. they have scored 15 to 21 points 4 times and are 1-3 in those games. they are 1-1 when scoring 22 to 24 points. they are 5-0 when scoring 25 or more points.

in review. both qb's came up short when their teams scored less than 14 points and dominated when they scored 25 or more points. the difference is when the pats scored 15 to 24 points they are 9-0, while the colts are 2-4 when they score 15 to 24 points. in tom brady's 14 playoff wins he has had to score 25 or more points 5 times. in manning's 7 playoff wins, the colts scored 25 or more points 5 times. when brady doesn't lead the pats to 25 points the pats still win 82% of the time. when manning fails to lead the colts to 25 points, they get beat 78% of the time.

certainly having the great supporting cast makes it more likley that manning will put up those 25 or more points. but it is easy to see that, when it comes to winning football playoff games, having that excellent defense is a much bigger help than having those extra weapons on offense.
 
MarinePhinFan said:
maybe it's the supporting cast and the tunrovers...although even when brady makes turnovers, as in the san diego game last year, the defense steps up and helps him out. heck, sometimes the offense does, as in the san diego game the year before when they forced a fumble after brady threw an interception.

does brady have fewer turnovers because he is allowed to play it safer when the defense helps give him a lead, and are peyton's increase in turnovers due to trying to come from behind? that turnovers helping the defense cuts both ways: a solid defense will mean the qb gets to play while in the lead more often and has to take fewer chances.

looking at it from the other perspective: how does each team do when they score a certain number of points? in brady's 17 playoff games they have been held under 14 points twice and are 0-2 in those games. they have scored 15 to 21 points 5 times and are 5-0 in those games. when they score 22 to 24 points they are 4-0. when they score over 24 points they are 5-1. the notion that the pats are routinely scoring 30 points to win playoff games is provably false.

now for manning...the colts have been held under 14 points 3 times and are 0-3 in those games. they have scored 15 to 21 points 4 times and are 1-3 in those games. they are 1-1 when scoring 22 to 24 points. they are 5-0 when scoring 25 or more points.

in review. both qb's came up short when their teams scored less than 14 points and dominated when they scored 25 or more points. the difference is when the pats scored 15 to 24 points they are 9-0, while the colts are 2-4 when they score 15 to 24 points. in tom brady's 14 playoff wins he has had to score 25 or more points 5 times. in manning's 7 playoff wins, the colts scored 25 or more points 5 times. when brady doesn't lead the pats to 25 points the pats still win 82% of the time. when manning fails to lead the colts to 25 points, they get beat 78% of the time.

certainly having the great supporting cast makes it more likley that manning will put up those 25 or more points. but it is easy to see that, when it comes to winning football playoff games, having that excellent defense is a much bigger help than having those extra weapons on offense.
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How many of peyton's turnovers are b/c he is trying to battle back from a big deficit? They have been in most of the playoff games they have played so rarely has he been behind big needed to make big plays thus causing the turnovers.


The points argument I cannot buy b/c each game is different. In only ONE postseason loss did he lead his high powered O to more than 20 points and that was the 28-24 loss to SD 2 years ago in which he threw 2 critical INTs deep in SD territory.

Manning has hed the much better supporting offensive cast, Brady has had a better supporting defensive cast but both have had players around them they could win w/. One reached 4 SBs and the other 1 SO FAR. If Peyton caps a 15-1, 14-2 year w/ a SB then he rockets up my list. If he was doing all he could and had his current playoff record he'd be alot higher but he's been bad when they need him most.
 
nyjunc said:
How many of peyton's turnovers are b/c he is trying to battle back from a big deficit? They have been in most of the playoff games they have played so rarely has he been behind big needed to make big plays thus causing the turnovers.


The points argument I cannot buy b/c each game is different. In only ONE postseason loss did he lead his high powered O to more than 20 points and that was the 28-24 loss to SD 2 years ago in which he threw 2 critical INTs deep in SD territory.

Manning has hed the much better supporting offensive cast, Brady has had a better supporting defensive cast but both have had players around them they could win w/. One reached 4 SBs and the other 1 SO FAR. If Peyton caps a 15-1, 14-2 year w/ a SB then he rockets up my list. If he was doing all he could and had his current playoff record he'd be alot higher but he's been bad when they need him most.
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I think you're putting too much weight on how the teams play when trying to determine who the better QB is.

There are 2 QB's in the history of the NFL who have won a championship with a defense that was ranked in the bottom half of the league.

Johnny Unitas and Peyton Manning.

You talk about Manning's high powered "O", yet you blame the Pats defense when they lose to the Giants and are only able to put up 14pts with the greatest offense ever. Who choked? Brady and the offense choked. The defense gave up 17 points. The offense was only able to score 14. Which was nearly 2.5 times less their season average.

If P. Manning plays for any of the Pats Super Bowl winning teams he wins them also. It has been proven that when Brady doesn't have a top 5 ranked defense he can't win a Super Bowl. I also don't see why the Pats defense gets the blame when they lose to the Giants but P. Manning gets the blame when the Colts lose in the post season. The numbers prove that Manning has put up the same amount of points, stats etc as Brady, yet the Colts lose more often. Why? Well, the numbers also show that Manning typically has to score more points to win. That tells most people that the Pats are more well rounded and have the better defense.

You have a double standard and it's very large. Maybe you hype Brady because of what he Pats have been able to do to the Jets this decade? I don't know, but it's there.
 
You're wasting your time....anyone who has that deep seeded of a love affair with a QB....that isn't even the QB of their team.....you will never change his mind....forget that the amazing pats are 7-5 WITH Brady, Moss and Welker.....While the Colts are 12-0 with Manning, Wayne...and some french guy
 
MarinePhinFan said:
I think you're putting too much weight on how the teams play when trying to determine who the better QB is.

There are 2 QB's in the history of the NFL who have won a championship with a defense that was ranked in the bottom half of the league.

Johnny Unitas and Peyton Manning.

You talk about Manning's high powered "O", yet you blame the Pats defense when they lose to the Giants and are only able to put up 14pts with the greatest offense ever. Who choked? Brady and the offense choked. The defense gave up 17 points. The offense was only able to score 14. Which was nearly 2.5 times less their season average.

If P. Manning plays for any of the Pats Super Bowl winning teams he wins them also. It has been proven that when Brady doesn't have a top 5 ranked defense he can't win a Super Bowl. I also don't see why the Pats defense gets the blame when they lose to the Giants but P. Manning gets the blame when the Colts lose in the post season. The numbers prove that Manning has put up the same amount of points, stats etc as Brady, yet the Colts lose more often. Why? Well, the numbers also show that Manning typically has to score more points to win. That tells most people that the Pats are more well rounded and have the better defense.

You have a double standard and it's very large. Maybe you hype Brady because of what he Pats have been able to do to the Jets this decade? I don't know, but it's there.
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Reg season rankinss are meaningless, the Colts low ranked defense CARRIED Peyton to a Championship.

Again, the Colts D has played much better than their ranking in postseason and the pats D has played much worse to where the 2 D's are very close.


How does a player choke when he leads his team 80 yds for the go ahead TD w/ 2+ mins left? He didn't have a great game but STILL he found a way to get them the lead late in the game. When has Peyton ever donw that in a postseason loss?


If you switched the QBs teams Indy would have 3-4 SBs and NE would be lucky to have 1. Peyton wouldn't take what the D gioves them, he'd force big plays and turn it over costing them games like oakland '01, SB '01, SB '03,...

Brady on Indy and he easily wins games like at Miami '00, I=Pitt '05, SD the last 2 years.


What #s prove manning puts up the same amount of points and the Colts lose? he leads them to LESS than 14 PPG in their 8 playoff losses. You need the '85 Bears to win w/ that production and even they'd struggle to win games.


I admire both QBs, both are great but one elevates his game in big games and one shrivels. If my team was playing a big game in January I'd much rather face Peyton than Brady.
 
of coarse you would, you wouldn't know who to root for...

Don't wory, the Jets won't be playing any big games in January any time soon.
 
ArmyFin7 said:
You're wasting your time....anyone who has that deep seeded of a love affair with a QB....that isn't even the QB of their team.....you will never change his mind....forget that the amazing pats are 7-5 WITH Brady, Moss and Welker.....While the Colts are 12-0 with Manning, Wayne...and some french guy
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Obviously this season erases the rest of the decade:lol2:

How many times has peyton led his team to 9 or 10-0 or better? How many times have they won a playoff game in those years? look it up and let me know what you find.
 
ArmyFin7 said:
of coarse you would, you wouldn't know who to root for...

Don't wory, the Jets won't be playing any big games in January any time soon.
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Of course not, this is Miami's division for the next 10-15 years.:lol:
 
as long as Rex and Sanchez keep giving us the Jets games, you might be right....
 
nyjunc said:
Reg season rankinss are meaningless, the Colts low ranked defense CARRIED Peyton to a Championship.

Again, the Colts D has played much better than their ranking in postseason and the pats D has played much worse to where the 2 D's are very close.


How does a player choke when he leads his team 80 yds for the go ahead TD w/ 2+ mins left? He didn't have a great game but STILL he found a way to get them the lead late in the game. When has Peyton ever donw that in a postseason loss?


If you switched the QBs teams Indy would have 3-4 SBs and NE would be lucky to have 1. Peyton wouldn't take what the D gioves them, he'd force big plays and turn it over costing them games like oakland '01, SB '01, SB '03,...

Brady on Indy and he easily wins games like at Miami '00, I=Pitt '05, SD the last 2 years.


What #s prove manning puts up the same amount of points and the Colts lose? he leads them to LESS than 14 PPG in their 8 playoff losses. You need the '85 Bears to win w/ that production and even they'd struggle to win games.


I admire both QBs, both are great but one elevates his game in big games and one shrivels. If my team was playing a big game in January I'd much rather face Peyton than Brady.
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Again, why is it that Manning chokes when they lose yet Brady's "D" chokes when they lose?

Points are points. A TD in the 1st quarter is 6 points. Is a TD in the 4th quarter somehow count for more? No. The Pats choked in their last Super Bowl. The defense held up their end of the bargain. The defense played EXACTLY the same as it did all season by giving up their average points, 17. The offense, however, put up 14 pts when they average 38 that season.


I've proven to you time and time again with facts, objective data and stats that Manning's numbers are nearly identical to Brady's in the PLAYOFF'S! There is no denying it. They are right there. I've also shown that Manning's team lose more often when they don't score at least 25 points. I've shown that Brady's team wins more often when they don't score 25 pts.

Brady can't win when his team doesn't have a top 5 defense. It's been proven over and over. I'm not sure how you are getting that the Colts "D" somehow magically plays better in the post season while the Pats "D" play worse. The numbers show otherwise. The Pats "D" give up 6 fewer points per game and allow the Pats offense to only need field goals to win most games. Brady has NEVER led his team to a game winning TD drive. Not once. I would have never guessed that by the way the media and homer's talk about him, but it's true. Look it up.
 
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