Build around Fitzpatrick

[ANUFan]

While I never wanted the Dolphins to tank the season for Tua or any other player. I do believe that if Tua is cleared medically to play football and he opts to enter the draft the Dolphins will draft him at #5.
I think they will let him sit and learn during the 2020 season while continuing to let his hip completely heal.

Personally I would rather see them upgrade the OL and the DE position position in the first round of the draft because I am wary of all the injuries Tua has had in the last two years but I just think it will be difficult
for Grier to pass on Tua if he is there at #5.

I think it will be Fitzpatrick and Rosen next year with Tua as the third QB if they want to give him the entire year to heal his hip. If the hip is fully healed and he is ready to play next season, either Fitzpatrick or Rosen will not be on the team IMO.

Are they sure he's going to be there at #5?
IMO, if they have that kind of conviction on him then don't risk it.
Trade up to #2, assuming Bengals go Burrow!

It's likely going to cost you one of those 1st rounders.
But if he's your guy then you don't mess around and hope nothing crazy happens before your pick at 5.

 

[Ray R]

I think Fitz and Rosen give you a perferct look into the type of QB this team wants.

Fitz is outgoing and clearly has the ability to create when things break down.
Rosen apparantely is more antisocial and needs everything to go right in order to consistently succeed.

Now ask yourself which QBs fit more the Fitz characteristics?
Which fits more the Rosen characteristics?

IMO,

Tua/Love = Fitz
Herbert = Rosen

I have to tell you that I think your analysis of our two QB's is superficial to the point of being useless. Personalities???

What I want to see is Rosen over a 6 game period, something we did with Fitz, and then see how they are similar or differ in their relationship to the rest of the offense.

I like Fitz a lot.

I did see him get 2 or 3 hikes in this game that were either sent too soon or for some other reason he was not quite ready to receive them.

Was this the centers fault? Very likely since these occurred more often at the end of the game when players are tired and the pressure was to play well was at its peak. Was it also possible that Fitz was a little off in calling for the ball for the same reasons? Probably.

I don't know what the problem was, but it was there. There may have been other timing problems with the centering that were not obvious to me but could have effected some of the other plays.

In my mind, Fitz was processing the defense quickly and effectively. I would expect him to be better at this then Rosen due to experience. As I said above, we will know more about Rosen's actual potential after he gets about 6 games under his belt.

Keep in mind that many highly drafted QB's get what amounts to a 2 year evaluation under consistent coaching before they are fully accepted or are used until someone better is brought in. Some even get 30 interceptions their first year and go on be effective QB's. Didn't Aaron Rogers sit behind Favre for a few years?

Let's see what we have before we use up picks unnecessarily on what could be.

 

[ANUFan]

I have to tell you that I think your analysis of our two QB's is superficial to the point of being useless. Personalities???

What I want to see is Rosen over a 6 game period, something we did with Fitz, and then see how they are similar or differ in their relationship to the rest of the offense.

I like Fitz a lot.

I did see him get 2 or 3 hikes in this game that were either sent too soon or for some other reason he was not quite ready to receive them.

Was this the centers fault? Very likely since these occurred more often at the end of the game when players are tired and the pressure was to play well was at its peak. Was it also possible that Fitz was a little off in calling for the ball for the same reasons? Probably.

I don't know what the problem was, but it was there. There may have been other timing problems with the centering that were not obvious to me but could have effected some of the other plays.

In my mind, Fitz was processing the defense quickly and effectively. I would expect him to be better at this then Rosen due to experience. As I said above, we will know more about Rosen's actual potential after he gets about 6 games under his belt.

Keep in mind that many highly drafted QB's get what amounts to a 2 year evaluation under consistent coaching before they are fully accepted or are used until someone better is brought in. Some even get 30 interceptions their first year and go on be effective QB's. Didn't Aaron Rogers sit behind Favre for a few years?

Let's see what we have before we use up picks unnecessarily on what could be.

@Ray R


Whenever you're ready to arm wrestle, do push ups..whatever...let me know!
Clearly, the post wasn't meant to be this extensive list of traits but a quick rule of thumb.

 

[Burt Macklin]

I think Young falls to 3rd pick, the Redskins have spent 3 or 4 consecutive 1sts on DL (two alabama dts and sweat at de this past year). They've got a terrify DL already, i see them needing another wr or OL much more than a de/olb. Everyone says get best talent available, but you could realistically never build a team that way (all of jeff fishers teams were bpa, they were all talented in areas but never could put anything together)

 

[spiketex]

Everyone said this class would be great. Now Herbert's stock seems to be down and Tua needs oil for his hip.

Fortunately, if they opted to look for their guy next year, I'm sure they'd still draft a QB after round 1 to develop.

I could stomach a first round like this if they don't go for Tua @ 5:

#5 - Isaiah Simmons
#18 - K'Lavon Chaisson
#2? - Creed Humphrey

Grab a tackle and RB in round 2, and the team could be much better. Fitz has been keeping us in games all season. He'll be better with more talent.

They still have plenty ammunition to move up and get a guy next year if it came down to it. Teams always want to trade up. They could trade a 2nd this year for a 1st next year and we'll end up with 3 first round picks. That plus more picks and/or a player is enough to trade up to the top 5.

Don't dismiss the possibility that someone in the Dolphins organization wants Justin Herbert. He has a very big arm and he's intelligent (he's a biologist). Yes, he makes some bonehead throws and he has a personality that makes Ryan Tannehill look like Jimmy Kimmel, but coaches will recognize the talent. There are many safer options than Herbert but the 2 questions are:
- (a) What concerns remain about Tua Tagovailoa's health?
- (b) How does Herbert stack up against Rosen?
If the doctors are comfortable with Tua, he becomes the target. If there is little perceived gap between Herbert and Rosen, we roll with Rosen to develop behind Fitz, see how that pans out and use the high draft pick on another need.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

If Fitzpatrick was 27 instead of 37 I think most fans would be excited to build around him, maybe long-term. He had a heck of a season when you factor in that Miami couldn't run the football. I'm good with Fitz for another year, unless the staff really does believe they have something in Rosen. In a way, he's the wildcard of the whole offseason.

This is really a complete rebuild. There isn't an area where this team doesn't need help. The wide receiver position is probably the closest to being "set" but the Dolphins could use a speed guy to complement Parker and Williams. Maybe even another mismatch tight end. What's wrong with having two? New England did that for years with Gronk and Hernandez.

I think the front office will emphasize the key positions being quarterback, pass rusher, corner, blindside pass protector and wide receiver in the draft. Have to think Flores will want a few pass rushers, or his schemes really won't work to their full potential.

I'm not sure what to expect in free agency. Maybe one or two "star" type players, but mostly depth. Miami has approximately $130 million to spend so they could conceivably find a handful of starters.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Not a terrible idea though I still see a QB being drafted in the 1st round. Having him teach a young QB with no pressure to start them you can allow them to develop and keep adding guys to make this a playoff/championship roster. Handing over a talented roster who has been under the same system for multiple years makes for far greater success for a young QB. So keeping him as a groomer and caretaker is not a bad idea.

But, what does 1st round QB mean? With this staff I literally have no idea. If next year is a true development “redshirt” year that opens a large number of options. I personally like Tua because he has the greatest upside if anyone but if we got Love as 2a (won’t drop this late) and added 3 studs with the first round can you call it a loss? I know some will but give me the cloak and tattoo to the Flores convent because I’m a believer lol

Love is so intriguing. Not someone you want to throw into the fire and start year one, but who could sit and learn and potentially become a star. Scouts apparently see a lot of Mahomes in his game.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

I think Fitz and Rosen give you a perferct look into the type of QB this team wants.

Fitz is outgoing and clearly has the ability to create when things break down.
Rosen apparantely is more antisocial and needs everything to go right in order to consistently succeed.

Now ask yourself which QBs fit more the Fitz characteristics?
Which fits more the Rosen characteristics?

IMO,

Tua/Love = Fitz
Herbert = Rosen

I have to wonder how much say Flores had in Miami trading for Rosen? No quesiton, Fitz and Rosen are two different types. Rosen has more arm talent. That's the one part of Fitzpatrick's game that hurts him sometimes. Fitz can move better in the pocket and create. I think that's huge in today's game.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Hopefully, with increase investment in the big uglies up front it won't be that chaotic going forward.
So a guy that's smart with decision making becomes more of a priority than a guy that can "create"

Honestly, when you put it all on paper, Tua jsut screams take me for this FO.

Who knows what going to happen with that kid.

With Tua (healthy), you get a combination of Fitz and Rosen in some ways. The athlete who can create, the arm talent, smarts and accuracy.

 

[Dolphinator530]

Love is so intriguing. Not someone you want to throw into the fire and start year one, but who could sit and learn and potentially become a star. Scouts apparently see a lot of Mahomes in his game.

Love seems to be the prospect most people see with the widest variance between floor and ceiling. I am glad I am not making the decision.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

While I never wanted the Dolphins to tank the season for Tua or any other player. I do believe that if Tua is cleared medically to play football and he opts to enter the draft the Dolphins will draft him at #5.
I think they will let him sit and learn during the 2020 season while continuing to let his hip completely heal.

Personally I would rather see them upgrade the OL and the DE position position in the first round of the draft because I am wary of all the injuries Tua has had in the last two years but I just think it will be difficult
for Grier to pass on Tua if he is there at #5.

I think it will be Fitzpatrick and Rosen next year with Tua as the third QB if they want to give him the entire year to heal his hip. If the hip is fully healed and he is ready to play next season, either Fitzpatrick or Rosen will not be on the team IMO.

I agree with that. But, if they are looking to sit Tua for a year maybe they look more strongly at Love and possibly with one of the other first round picks?

 

[ANUFan]

With Tua (healthy), you get a combination of Fitz and Rosen in some ways. The athlete who can create, the arm talent, smarts and accuracy.

I think most of us believe Tua will be healthy again.
That's not the concern.
The concern is how long will he stay healthy?

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Love seems to be the prospect most people see with the widest variance between floor and ceiling. I am glad I am not making the decision.

It always concerns me when production isn't there. He has thrown a lot of interceptions etc. Clearly, he is not a finished product. Also, he played at Utah so you just wonder how much coaching he received. I have no idea about his intangibles, leadership, smarts, how fast he processes things etc.

But, when you watch what he can do it gets very exciting. Perhaps Miami's current coaching staff could develop him? I wouldn't take him at #5, but potentially with the pick from Pittsburgh or Houston. Then again, he probably doesn't make it past the top 15.

 

[The Ghost]

To be honest, I feel as if Miami holds the whole league by the balls with the draft. They are a total wildcard, I feel like if you look at the board right now it falls like this....

Bengals - Burrow unless Brown wants to screw that up too

Skins - Young seems like a lock

Lions - Brown or Ohkuda seem like heavy favorites

Giants - Thomas or Ohkuda

Dolphins- could be...Tua, Ohkuda, Simmons, Thomas if there, Espensa, Jeudy, maybe Brown or trade down

If not Tua then you listed 5 or 6 good reasons why trading down is a no brainer. Brown might be the player I'd want the most and he came up last off the top of your head.

I'm looking for 2021 picks and 3rd and 4th rounders this year.

I'm 100% for taking Tua, if they want him. I'm also 100% behind not taking Tua, if they don't. If he wasn't hurt we'd likely be looking at a lot of draft resources going to Washington.

CAN'T WAIT. #Springcantgetheresoonenough

 

[Kyndig]

Not for the long term of course, but he's a hell of a stopgap. I don't know any fans here who want Herbert. Fromm's stock plummeted. That leaves Tua when it comes to first round considerations at QB.

A few things about Tua's injury.

On draft day, the Dolphins and other teams will know more about Tua's medical report. We won't. We'll hear about sources, but it'll be conflicting and we won't know who to trust. Even with all the information in your hands, it's still a huge risk considering he could develop arthritis, he could suffer setbacks in recovery, etc.

On the other hand, do you really want to experience the pain of passing on a 2nd injured QB who could end up being an All-Pro? It's a tough decision.

Analysts point towards the 2021 draft, with the Clemson and Ohio State QBs being available then. Yes, I know. Things change. Everyone said this class would be great. Now Herbert's stock seems to be down and Tua needs oil for his hip.

Fortunately, if they opted to look for their guy next year, I'm sure they'd still draft a QB after round 1 to develop.

I could stomach a first round like this if they don't go for Tua @ 5:

#5 - Isaiah Simmons
#18 - K'Lavon Chaisson
#2? - Creed Humphrey

Grab a tackle and RB in round 2, and the team could be much better. Fitz has been keeping us in games all season. He'll be better with more talent.

They still have plenty ammunition to move up and get a guy next year if it came down to it. Teams always want to trade up. They could trade a 2nd this year for a 1st next year and we'll end up with 3 first round picks. That plus more picks and/or a player is enough to trade up to the top 5.

I like the creed Humphrey pick. Not sure we’d draft two linebackers in first round especially Simmons who is only 230 lbs, a converted safety. I think he’s a bit light compared to the types of backers that you would typically see in the patriots system which is what we are running here.

If we don’t draft Tua or Love with our first pick then personally, I’d like to see us draft Jeff Okudah or Andrew Thomas at 5 which are both better prospects than Simmons that play more premium positions which both happen to fill greater areas of need than an undersized tweener linebacking prospect.