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Cam Newton workout was phenomenal

TedSlimmJr said:
I don't know anything about Bucky Brooks being a former NFL scout... I suppose he could've been...


Anyway, the point is he's a member of the media. NFL scouts (that currently work for NFL teams) aren't allowed to attend these type "workouts"...
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i don't see how what i said could be interpreted any different...i said former scout...i guess i could have thrown in current media member...lol
 
RobertHorry said:
I know, I'm not bashing you at all hoops. Its not directed at you, but I've never liked Brooks EVER.

He had Bradford at #26 in his draft then moved him to #1. That makes complete sense. You can even google "Bucky Brooks idiot" and you get a high volume of hits for it.
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i'm not a bucky brooks or trent dilfer fan...but they were the 2 guys in attendance from the major media outlets espn and nfl network and i trust them more than i trust some local beat reporter when it comes to taking a look at nfl prospects...

but yeah...neither guy do i really take what they have to say to heart...i was just posting their reports...
 
RobertHorry said:
I know, I'm not bashing you at all hoops. Its not directed at you, but I've never liked Brooks EVER.

He had Bradford at #26 in his draft then moved him to #1. That makes complete sense. You can even google "Bucky Brooks idiot" and you get a high volume of hits for it.
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To be fair, there were a good number of even fairly smart people who didn't like Bradford and for a variety of reasons had Clausen ahead of him. I wasn't one of them (I barely considered Clausen draftable), but they were out there.

I'm not the biggest fan of Brooks' work, either. But the guy played in the NFL and was a scout for seven years. Resume isn't everything, as we know, but it's not nothing. More often than not it's even something.

Having watched "Path to the Draft" regularly last year, I often found myself wondering whether he really puts the time in anymore. His depth of knowledge really wasn't that much better than a well briefed talking head.
 
Mr. Magoo said:
To be fair, there were a good number of even fairly smart people who didn't like Bradford and for a variety of reasons had Clausen ahead of him. I wasn't one of them (I barely considered Clausen draftable), but they were out there.

I'm not the biggest fan of Brooks' work, either. But the guy played in the NFL and was a scout for seven years. Resume isn't everything, as we know, but it's not nothing. More often than not it's even something.

Having watched "Path to the Draft" regularly last year, I often found myself wondering whether he really puts the time in anymore. His depth of knowledge really wasn't that much better than a well briefed talking head.
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Exactly...

He reminds me of Jamie Dukes with a tad more experience in the field..

Brooks is NOT a good talent evaluator.
 
Mr. Magoo said:
To be fair, there were a good number of even fairly smart people who didn't like Bradford and for a variety of reasons had Clausen ahead of him. I wasn't one of them (I barely considered Clausen draftable), but they were out there.

I'm not the biggest fan of Brooks' work, either. But the guy played in the NFL and was a scout for seven years. Resume isn't everything, as we know, but it's not nothing. More often than not it's even something.

Having watched "Path to the Draft" regularly last year, I often found myself wondering whether he really puts the time in anymore. His depth of knowledge really wasn't that much better than a well briefed talking head.
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i'll stand up...i liked clausen more than bradford last year...i thought bradfords shoulder issues would follow him to the pros and i didn't like that okla o he came out of...my qb draft record stinks

bucky brooks favorite line is "when you talk about"...easily says it 10 times in any interview...i could play a drinking game to it if i wanted to its that regular
 
How anyone could not have Jimmy Clausen as a draftable quarterback is far worse than anything Bucky Brooks has ever done...
 
i will say however in my defense lol that i didn't really pay a lot of attention to the qb class last year cause i thought we might have had a franchise guy in the making in chad henne going into this last season...but i guess i could be dinged for ever thinking that after this seasons performance by him...what a kick in the gut
 
hey horry...next i'm gonna give you that fat red headed chick from espn who was in attendance take on the workout...lol...provided she hasn't poured ranch dressing on the microphone and scarfed it down
 
j-off-her-doll said:
I understand there are consequences to the stupid rules - that everyone, except Alabama, breaks.

My point: I don't view it as a character issue. I don't think that because he accepted money he's a bad kid or that he's stupid. My guess is he got caught (which is the real issue here) because he's high profile, and because his dad was involved. But, again, you won't have to worry about him accepting money in the pros.
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I think these guys should be paid. I really don't hold that against Cam. The have no time to work given the time spent in practice and in classes yet the NCAA rakes in billions in revenues. I frankly would have a bigger problem with cheating in school or stealing laptops. The vast majority of kids come from lower income homes and we expect a 19 year old kid to turn down cash, cars, and coeds when it's thrown in their faces. Cheating, whether it be payoffs, recruiting problems, or fixing classes will continue to happen and will never stop....as long as they continue to track wins and loses. It may not be $200k but it's significant.

Oh and if you think Alabama is immune from cheating you may want to look up NCAA violations with them in the last 20 years. I know they had to forfeit games in the early 90's for fielding an illegal player, then again the early 2000's for recruiting violations.

If people want to see cheating at it's apex, they should check out that ESPN special about SMU and the death penalty they were given in the 80's. All those Texas teams all had boosters throwing around 50 grand to anyone with a few ounces of talent.
 
I know Jimmy absolutely sucked last year in Carolina, but I would still take him over Henne nine times out of ten. I think he can still be productive in the NFL.
 
PJack said:
I think these guys should be paid. I really don't hold that against Cam. The have no time to work given the time spent in practice and in classes yet the NCAA rakes in billions in revenues. I frankly would have a bigger problem with cheating in school or stealing laptops. The vast majority of kids come from lower income homes and we expect a 19 year old kid to turn down cash, cars, and coeds when it's thrown in their faces. Cheating, whether it be payoffs, recruiting problems, or fixing classes will continue to happen and will never stop....as long as they continue to track wins and loses. It may not be $200k but it's significant.

Oh and if you think Alabama is immune from cheating you may want to look up NCAA violations with them in the last 20 years. I know they had to forfeit games in the early 90's for fielding an illegal player, then again the early 2000's for recruiting violations.

If people want to see cheating at it's apex, they should check out that ESPN special about SMU and the death penalty they were given in the 80's. All those Texas teams all had boosters throwing around 50 grand to anyone with a few ounces of talent.
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All Antonio Langham did was sign his name on a napkin in a restraunt...

The textbook "scandal" was nothing more than athletes from all sports having to pay restitution... no LOI was even needed, Bama conducted their own investigation and complied with the NCAA..

Every successful coach that Auburn has ever had, going back to the 50's and Shug Jordan has been involved in some sort of pay-for-play scam.. Terry Bowden even admitted it. Pat Dye was probably the worst, which is why Tommy Tuberville wouldn't even let Dye around his team while he was there.

Whether college athletes deserve to be paid AFTER they commit to a University is a seperate issue and a seperate debate, and one worth having.

However, using money, cars, prostitutes, etc. in order to get a kid to commit is a completely different issue...
 
TedSlimmJr said:
How anyone could not have Jimmy Clausen as a draftable quarterback is far worse than anything Bucky Brooks has ever done...
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Everybody has guys they hate, and Clausen was a guy like that for me. I saw a slow learner with mediocre arm strength who despite being exposed to NFL coaching for four years still couldn't stop making completely baffling throws into coverage. He also fairly well proved himself the dictionary definition of "entitled."

He doesn't have the personality to be a backup and I didn't consider him even mediocre starting material. As a result I honestly don't think I would have drafted him in any round. If he becomes an elite NFL quarterback I know I'll be ****ing flabbergasted.

I hated JaMarcus Russell, too, at least compared to his hype. I wouldn't have touched him before the third round. Third round was also my grade for Matt Leinart. I had Philip Rivers as a much better prospect than Eli Manning, who I did and still consider vastly overrated.

But we all screw these things up, and I don't for a second consider myself a draft expert. I had Chad Henne as a mid first rounder and Joe Flacco as no better than a second rounder. I had Jay Cutler as a #1 overall worthy prospect (one of my, if not my, favorite prospect I've watched in the 12 years I've really been paying attention to the draft). I had a late first round grade on Vince Young. I didn't even pay attention to Ben Roethlisberger. I thought Matt Ryan was overrated. I missed on Josh Freeman. I liked Trent Edwards.

Blah blah blah. We all have these war pelts and big misses we can trot out.

Now, I certainly don't think Clausen's rookie season "proves" anything one way or another. I haven't watched every throw he made. I even saw a few good things in their game against Cleveland, which I broke down closely (being Cleveland's game before their game against us). But almost everything I saw of him looked pretty bad, if not very bad. On a awful team, sure. But being awful on a bad team didn't stop John Beck from nearly getting run out of the league.

The difference between Clausen and Bradford as rookies couldn't have been more stark, made all the more clear by the fact that Clausen was supposed to be the more "pro ready" guy while Bradford was going to have to relearn everything he knew about offense.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
All Antonio Langham did was sign his name on a napkin in a restraunt...

The textbook "scandal" was nothing more than athletes from all sports having to pay restitution... no LOI was even needed, Bama conducted their own investigation and complied with the NCAA..

Every successful coach that Auburn has ever had, going back to the 50's and Shug Jordan has been involved in some sort of pay-for-play scam.. Terry Bowden even admitted it. Pat Dye was probably the worst, which is why Tommy Tuberville wouldn't even let Dye around his team while he was there.

Whether college athletes deserve to be paid AFTER they commit to a University is a seperate issue and a seperate debate, and one worth having.

However, using money, cars, prostitutes, etc. in order to get a kid to commit is a completely different issue...
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The Bama recruiting violations included academic fraud and paying cash for players in the early 2000's. That resulted in 5 years of probation and losing 21 scholarships. In 1995 it was 3 years probation, 25 scholarships, and actually 11 forfeited victories. The recent scandal you referred to involved $40,000 worth of free textbooks given to friends of student athletes (not just football) resulting in forfeiting 21 football victories. The Committee on Infractions' claim that the school's "abysmal" and un­precedented history of so many infractions cases justi­fied vacating records. The Committee on Infractions described Alabama as a "se­rial repeat violator."

It took me 5 minutes to dig this up. I'm also sure you are accurate with Auburns indiscretions. Frankly if you Google NCAA football violations, you'll find many major schools with similar issues. In every sport. I'm not looking to pick on any one school. I don't care. My point is that its rampant. The NCAA is a BS organization that could care less about fairness in treatment of it's players as long as they continue to rake in enormous profits. Boosters could care less about kids end up after 4 years (if they are lucky). Coaches will push and bend rules if it means landing a player that will help them win.

For all of these reasons, I could care less that Newton got his share assuming he wasn't breaking any legitimate laws.
 
PJack said:
The Bama recruiting violations included academic fraud and paying cash for players in the early 2000's. That resulted in 5 years of probation and losing 21 scholarships. In 1995 it was 3 years probation, 25 scholarships, and actually 11 forfeited victories. The recent scandal you referred to involved $40,000 worth of free textbooks given to friends of student athletes (not just football) resulting in forfeiting 21 football victories. The Committee on Infractions' claim that the school's "abysmal" and un­precedented history of so many infractions cases justi­fied vacating records. The Committee on Infractions described Alabama as a "se­rial repeat violator."

It took me 5 minutes to dig this up. I'm also sure you are accurate with Auburns indiscretions. Frankly if you Google NCAA football violations, you'll find many major schools with similar issues. In every sport. I'm not looking to pick on any one school. I don't care. My point is that its rampant. The NCAA is a BS organization that could care less about fairness in treatment of it's players as long as they continue to rake in enormous profits. Boosters could care less about kids end up after 4 years (if they are lucky). Coaches will push and bend rules if it means landing a player that will help them win.

For all of these reasons, I could care less that Newton got his share assuming he wasn't breaking any legitimate laws.
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You're not getting nearly the information that you think you're getting.... the devil is in the details, and the details are far too many to get into in this thread.

It has never been proven that Alabama paid any player... Alabama has been hammered by the NCAA far extending any evidence that they were able to bring forth. They never had any evidence to the extent that they had on USC in the Reggie Bush case, or even SMU.

It basically amounts to what they have currently on Auburn, which is "not enough", according to the NCAA.

What you need to do is go to an Alabama message board somewhere... and you better have a lot of time on your hands when you do.. that's where you'll get to the bottom of it.

In the end, what you'll come to is the same conclusion about the NCAA that you're already at... but you'll have a far better understanding, and a completely different view on how things happened, and why.
 
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