Christian Ponder's arm strength center stage at Florida State's pro day | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Christian Ponder's arm strength center stage at Florida State's pro day

Does Ponder remind anyone of Colt McCoy, good athlete, not the strongest arm, etc? i would like to think that Daboll has a specific type of QB that he would like.
 
ckparrothead said:
If you have concerns about attitude or drugs, I can't help you. I might choose to remind you that it's hard to judge "attitude" based on the little amount of exposure we have, that there has been no confirmation of any drug issues with any of the top QBs in this draft, but I suppoe that would fall on deaf ears.

The one thing I'll addess is "shoulder issues". Christian Ponder separated his shoulder while tackling DeAndre McDaniel after an interception. He doesn't currently have "shoulder issues". His shoulder is healed. It's been healed a while now. He didn't injure it throwing the ball like Chad Pennington did. He tried to stick his nose in there after an interception and paid the price. The NFL rules committee has a proposed rule change on the table to add quarterbacks at any point after a change of possession to the list of "defenseless players". In other words, no hitting them after a turnover, for any reason. A quarterback in the act of throwing the ball is also proposed to be added to the list of "defenseless players". No hitting a QB as he throws. But even if those rule changes weren't on the board right now, the fact of the matter is Christian Ponder does not have "shoulder issues". It got hurt once, and is now healed. You might say he has "elbow issues" because he bruised it against Oklahoma and then suffered torn fascia (the layer between the muscle and fat) against Boston College, an injury which went mis-diagnosed and so naturally it caused a lot of swelling and inflammatory fluid build, but that's also healed. And once it's healed, it's healed.

My injury concerns with Ponder are not "shoulder issues". They're much more generalized. This is a guy that has had cracked ribs, a separated shoulder, a bruised elbow and torn fascial tissue in the elbow, all in two years. He plays the sport physically and he's still not learned to go down rather than take hits. My injury concerns are sort of a sum-of-the-parts issue. What's next? Broken leg? Torn meniscus? Broken hand? That's my concern.
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injuries are injuries, agreed, but at qb, any injury to the arm, shoulder, hand is a major concern, and this guy has had his share of them. Irrelevant as to wether or not they were caused by throwing the ball or tackiling a defender, the injured body part is critical to the position that he plays.

At the end of the day, we are picking in the 1st half of the draft. That means we are an average team looking to get better. Do we take a qb with known injuries? No way. If we were picking 28-32 range, and our qb was getting on, and we needed to groom someone to take his place in 2-3 years time, then yeah, different scenario, and it would be worth a shot. But we are not in that position.

Some believe we need a qb in the 1st round. I don't. I think we need a RB with vision and endurance, strength & ability. Ingram brings all that, so he or perhaps the best O lineman available to help in the running game would be my pick.

Not saying that Ponder wont be a good footballer, but at 15, and with his injury concerns, no thanks.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
You didn't have to. Your lack of attention toward the QB position summed it up pretty well.
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Really... 'My lack of attention to the qb position' ......you worked that out because I dont want a qb with a history of injuries.

wow. You really read between the lines dont you.....
 
Buff said:
Really... 'My lack of attention to the qb position' ......you worked that out because I dont want a qb with a history of injuries.

wow. You really read between the lines dont you.....
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You're advocating the idea that we SHOULD draft Ingram in the 1st. There are no worthwhile QB's in this draft who will fall to us in the 3rd. So, what's your plan of action?
 
Yes i would like to get Ingram. Running back is a bigger issue than qb. Henne didnt have a great year, but was it all his fault? not a chance. Porous O line, rubbish running backs, woeful playcalling & qb coaching were the bigger issues that he had. That and quite a few dropped catches. So, to answer your question, either get Ingram or trade back & get an O lineman - Castonzo/Solder/Carimi. Ingram & one of the three O lineman listed would be a bigger help to Miami this year than a rookie qb.

If Henne still sux, what have we lost? One year of mediocrity. We may get a better draft position, and be in position to draft a qb in 2012. There are a few - Luck, Barkley, Lindley, Pryor that might be available next year. Not saying there any better or worse than whats available this year, but to get the best RB in the draft at 15 or get maybe the 4th best qb in the draft at 15.

Just my opinion.

Just because a qb isnt a 1st rounder, doesnt mean he's not worthwhile.
 
Buff said:
Yes i would like to get Ingram. Running back is a bigger issue than qb. Henne didnt have a great year, but was it all his fault? not a chance. Porous O line, rubbish running backs, woeful playcalling & qb coaching were the bigger issues that he had. That and quite a few dropped catches. So, to answer your question, either get Ingram or trade back & get an O lineman - Castonzo/Solder/Carimi. Ingram & one of the three O lineman listed would be a bigger help to Miami this year than a rookie qb.

If Henne still sux, what have we lost? One year of mediocrity. We may get a better draft position, and be in position to draft a qb in 2012. There are a few - Luck, Barkley, Lindley, Pryor that might be available next year. Not saying there any better or worse than whats available this year, but to get the best RB in the draft at 15 or get maybe the 4th best qb in the draft at 15.

Just my opinion.

Just because a qb isnt a 1st rounder, doesnt mean he's not worthwhile.
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I definitely think QB is a bigger issue than RB . . . but like you said, is the 4th best QB going to be better than Chad Henne. I certainly have my doubts, especially with the crap Henne was put through last season. I would be perfectly fine taking the best RB in this draft, the complete package . . . and giving Henne another year and worse come to worse drafting our guy in 2012. I like Nick Foles, I'm glad he stayed in school . . . I think he is a guy we may be talking about heavily if things don't work out this year.

We have used countless 2nd round picks on guys, and now the "in thing" this year is we haven't found QB success because we haven't drafted a guy in round 1 . . . hell we probably take Chad Henne with the 32nd pick in 2008 if Merling doesn't drop, and I'm sure people would have found a way to spin that. What happens when Miami just selects a guy at 15 and he burns out . . . what is going to be the new excuse? Just tank the season and get the #1 guy? People want to put all this blame on Henne, and expect that it is his fault we sucked and the lack of a run game, a beat up OLine, no speed, a dumb playcaller and a conservative coaching staff had nothing to do with it and that another QB would have more success. I'm not that optimistic.

I'm good with a QB at 15, but Mark Ingram would be a great pick as well. I just don't think "not taking a QB" at 15 is that bad of a decision. Plenty of WORSE teams with bigger QB needs will be passing as well.
 
I disagree with the assessment that RB is a bigger need that QB. Henne didn't have the ideal situation, but he regressed - a lot. I'm not saying he was worse this year than last. He was, but that's not the real problem. The real problem is that he was MUCH worse at the end of the season than the beginning. I don't think it's wise to pin his inadequacies on an O-line that protected pretty well for him (for the vast majority of the year) or ****ty RB's. There are a number of very talented RB's to be had in RD's 3-5.

Also, Solder isn't an upgrade over Carey - no matter how fat Carey gets. Carimi would be an upgrade. Dude's a stud. But, when you look at many of the best teams (including the two best), their O-lines were worse than Miami's O-line. Our O-line is good enough. We need guys to make plays. I like Ingram a lot, but a RB won't win you SB's. It's one of the least valuable positions on either side of the ball.
 
When you say 'the 4th best QB,' you're framing Ponder - in my eyes - inaccurately. Some people have him as their best QB (Wes Bunting). I think that after Newton, all of the next three QB's make strong cases for 2nd best QB in this class.

They're all franchise caliber QB's. That doesn't mean they'll all become franchise QB's, but I think any or all of them can be just that.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
When you say 'the 4th best QB,' you're framing Ponder - in my eyes - inaccurately. Some people have him as their best QB (Wes Bunting). I think that after Newton, all of the next three QB's make strong cases for 2nd best QB in this class.

They're all franchise caliber QB's. That doesn't mean they'll all become franchise QB's, but I think any or all of them can be just that.
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Hell I think Jake Locker will end up the best QB in this class, and I know I'm very much in the minority when I say that. I'm willing to gamble on Ponder, Locker, Mallet, Newton or Gabbert in round 1 . . . but I'm not interviewing these kids, I don't know what Daboll requires out of his QB, I don't know what is being said behind the table. I also don't believe any of these QB's are guaranteed to outperform Chad Henne in the offseason. Stepping in the shoes of Ireland/Sparano . . . the best bet may be to surround Henne with more talent and a better gameplan.

I know that isn't a trendy thing to say/think . . . but that could end up being the result. Why would a regime, that was on thin ice this offseason, take a QB in round 1? I keep asking myself that, and I just don't see where they could give up on a playmaker like Ingram for a QB, especially with Henne on the roster still. The only thing I keep thinking is Stephen Ross guaranteed them atleast 2 years, IF they draft a QB in round 1.

I think Ross likes Henne, and the worst thing that could happen is we draft a first round QB, and Henne mops the floor up with the guy in the offseason . . . and apparantely he is going to have a distinct advantage over anybody that comes in.

But Ross is also a business man, so a guy like Cam Newton or bringing in a Vince Young behind Center may be the thinking (trust me I would hate Young down here) to bring some electricity to the stadium. Personally I think Mark Ingram and a 4.3 WR and any OC not named Dan Henning could provide a spark just as easily.
 
no question qb is the bigger need than rb for us...by far...but i'm asking myself this question...is christian ponder a better pro than mark ingram??? i'm having a hard time wrapping myself around that one...real hard time

i mean lets say ponder is penny with a stronger arm just for exercise purposes and ingrams emmitt smith all over again...who do you think is the guy teams would covet/regret passing up most???

i know what my answer is...
 
to me this all comes down to convictions...what's your conviction on the guys...if you were a scout and you were sitting in the meeting room with the gm and the rest of the front office who would you go to bat for...who would you lay it on the line for...for me if they asked me about mark ingram i can say without blinking that he's emmitt all over again that i would lay my balls on the line...that he'll barring major unforeseen injury be a perennial all pro in the pros...no different than i would have and did with around here with dez bryant the football player last year...

hold me accountable or whatever...i'm willing to lay it on the line for the guy...can i say the same about christian ponder or really any of these other qbs...personally no...i can't...i'm not willing to lose my job for any of them...i don't have a strong enough conviction...i get a little nervous when i let need interfere with conviction...the only qb i have that strong a conviction about right now is andrew luck in 2012
 
2413fanphins said:
One doc misdiagnoses a shoulder injury.

another (or a few), say he's totally good to go for the nfl.

me... I watch him throw, and although I didn't see is proday workout, everything I HAVE seen, i don't see 1st round arm strength...

and the comparisons to aaron rodgers are just baffling.....
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Thats it right there. His pro-day was the one thing this offseason where his arm was completely healthy. And, coincidentally, he threw the better then he has in a year and a half. He looked like he justified everyones expectations people had for him before the 2010 season.
 
As I said before, if you're not drafting Christian Ponder because you think he has a bad shoulder or bad elbow, you're making that decision based on false assumptions. If you're not drafting Christian Ponder because you can't help but wonder what he'll injure next...I can see that.
 
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