Did we hit our ceiling last year? | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Did we hit our ceiling last year?

Why anyone would worry about the roster until July has always baffled me.

Offseason. If it weren't for these threads, what else is there to talk about? TBF, a lot of life is discussions about the unknown. The stock market. Elections. Oscar winners. All part of life. Sadly, most of those discussions are a conflation of what people WANT and what is likely. My kingdom for a thread consisting of the 'likely' and not the unrealistic
 
Hard to get better when you are losing top players to free agency
I agree. Grier went all in last season. Not sure the team will be better in 2024. Especially with so many players potentially leaving. It'll be hard to replace them all and get the same production. Couple that with several injured players expected to miss part of the upcoming season.
 
Did the Chiefs hit their ceiling when they had to offload Tyreek for cap purposes?
 
As you should be. It wouldn't be the Miami Dolphins if you weren't.

Me? I pray. A lot. A heckuva lot more since Hill decided to get real on some unnecessary BS on top of being broke with major roster problems.

🎼Miami Dolphins! Miami Dolphins! Miami Dolphins are #1🎼

EVERYBODY!

Honestly, it doesn't really matter to me at this point. I'm going to go apeshit on Sundays rooting for whatever product they put on the field. Cuz, lets face it, the psychopath fan knows he could never truly stop watching. This team was handed down to me. I've earned sh;tting on this team till my hearts content. I can do that. Cuz I know I'm gonna be there regardless every game day... hoping... no matter what... till my time is at an end.

So, to those out there with terror in their hearts; let it go unto the ether so it may vanish in the whirlwind. For, if your future has been foretold, foolish is he who would accept a known fate with a heavy heart. Go blissfully into that good fight to meet disaster with a joy that lights the dark. Better meet the blade with a smile sharper still.

Great post >> In all the chaos over the years, the one constant is us.


While I agree, I think the paradigm of being a fan is changing though. Nobody's watching the combine or draft anymore because we have actual lives and those things are so over-dramatized. The production doesn't matter so you can skip that knowing the data is going to be available the next day. Why watch some guy walk out on-stage? It's a pointless waste of time.

It even stretches to regular season games. It's easy to find replays, cut-ups, highlight packages, condensed footage, stats and debate which is what ultimately provides us our perspective--not clips of MM on the sideline or Tua celebrating. Again, that's meaningless.

The viewer today is often getting more and ironically watching less, LOL.
 
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Offseason. If it weren't for these threads, what else is there to talk about? TBF, a lot of life is discussions about the unknown. The stock market. Elections. Oscar winners. All part of life. Sadly, most of those discussions are a conflation of what people WANT and what is likely. My kingdom for a thread consisting of the 'likely' and not the unrealistic

Totally respect that point of view but I'm opposite.

>> The Dolphins are perpetually mediocre, thus we should not be constrained to discussions about what they are likely to do.

Look at all the shocking stuff which has yielded recent NFL success:

(a) The Eagles went to (and won) a Super Bowl only to fire their QB and HC shortly thereafter, yet they ended up right back in the Super Bowl a few years later and almost won. That's pretty unexpected to so quickly replace the two most critical pieces after they earned you a Lombardi...but clearly it worked for the Eagles.

(b) The 49ers got to the Super Bowl with QB1, then decide to go all-in for QB2 in the draft. When he turned out a bust they found their way back to the Super Bowl with QB3. Their surprising openness to change at such a critical position (or at least their ability to get through it) is noteworthy.

(c) The Bengals tanked in dramatic fashion only to end up in the Super Bowl 2 short years later >> with coaches we had employed just a few years prior. That shows how dramatic improvement is possible and how great success should be expected from players who truly change the course of a franchise.

(d) No one expected the Chiefs to trade a HoF-worthy weapon given their passing game was a core strength. But they did and got right back to (and won) the Super Bowl without any dip in the passing game performance--their QB actually got better statistically after the move. There's a huge lesson there involving what is most important in a passing game and in the NFL Playoffs.

(e) Houston traded away a highly-talented QB thought to be a "franchise guy" and ended up in the Playoffs where they beat the team who acquired said QB. By removing an impediment they appear much better than the team who went all-in on the supposedly "proven" commodity.

(f) Seattle traded away another supposed franchise QB only for fans across the NFL to totally lose respect for that guy, viewing him now as an over-paid name who really can't change a culture or lead an elite offense by himself.



I think the NFL is about creating value and often times, that's not accomplished by simply doing what people expect you to do.


The Dolphins are likely to make the same moves that've repeatedly found them stuck in mediocrity:
>> Re-signing the wrong players
>> Falling in love with a QB who isn't worth that affection
>> Prioritizing their coaching hires around making prior draft picks look defensible
>> Signing splashy veterans to patch holes where draft picks aren't performing
>> Overlooking cultural & locker room issues in favor of blind optimism
>> Prioritizing the acquisition of splashy guys from FA over their own thus watering down the culture they might've built internally.


These things could've been said about Joe Philbin and Adam Gase just as easily as they're now brought up with Mike McDaniel.


So we constantly ask ourselves existential questions like the following:

>> Is the culture better today than it was?
>> Can we definitively say we've gotten beyond mediocrity?
>> Have we won Playoff games?
>> Are we on an upward trajectory?
>> Are our foundational pieces secure?

The answer to each of those is a resounding, "no...but we're hoping to get lucky this offseason."
Well, that's what it's always been.

A lot of people are tired of talking about the "likely" moves because it hasn't worked for 2+ decades. Meanwhile, we're watching other teams do interesting things every year.


.
 
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I don’t think losing Howard is a big deal. Wilkins is a different story but he’s just going to be too costly.

I think the bigger deal is Chubb and Phillips. Not sure when they come back and when they do how effective they’ll be.

Grier should be on the hot seat.
 
The likleyhood we have a better roster in 24 than we did in 23 is close to 0%.

Doesn't mean we're topped out, 24 we should have a down year but hopefully we can fix our cap issues. Compile more picks for the future and compete in 25 and 26.

I'm looking at 24 as a step back to hopefully rebuild for the future.

However, If Ross allows Grier to mortgage our future again with bad contract restructures and bad use of our draft picks, it could be over. As in this "Era" is over. Greir will get fired along with McDaniel, Tua will struggle with a depleted roster for the next 3 years until we can get out of his contract and start a full rebuild again in 2028.
 
If you think about last year. How many games did we really have all starters healthy? Not many. Ramsey..o line.. etc. As mentioned above not having Chubb and Jaelen at beginning of 24 season hurts .
 
Unfortunately we probably did hit our ceiling last year. We're going to have a worse roster headed into next year after we lose Hunt, Wilkins and AVG. It's just the reality of it.
 
Totally respect that point of view but I'm opposite.

>> The Dolphins are perpetually mediocre, thus we should not be constrained to discussions about what they are likely to do.

Look at all the shocking stuff which has yielded recent NFL success:

(a) The Eagles went to (and won) a Super Bowl only to fire their QB and HC shortly thereafter, yet they ended up right back in the Super Bowl a few years later and almost won. That's pretty unexpected to so quickly replace the two most critical pieces after they earned you a Lombardi...but clearly it worked for the Eagles.

(b) The 49ers got to the Super Bowl with QB1, then decide to go all-in for QB2 in the draft. When he turned out a bust they found their way back to the Super Bowl with QB3. Their surprising openness to change at such a critical position (or at least their ability to get through it) is noteworthy.

(c) The Bengals tanked in dramatic fashion only to end up in the Super Bowl 2 short years later >> with coaches we had employed just a few years prior. That shows how dramatic improvement is possible and how great success should be expected from players who truly change the course of a franchise.

(d) No one expected the Chiefs to trade a HoF-worthy weapon given their passing game was a core strength. But they did and got right back to (and won) the Super Bowl without any dip in the passing game performance--their QB actually got better statistically after the move. There's a huge lesson there involving what is most important in a passing game and in the NFL Playoffs.

(e) Houston traded away a highly-talented QB thought to be a "franchise guy" and ended up in the Playoffs where they beat the team who acquired said QB. By removing an impediment they appear much better than the team who went all-in on the supposedly "proven" commodity.

(f) Seattle traded away another supposed franchise QB only for fans across the NFL to totally lose respect for that guy, viewing him now as an over-paid name who really can't change a culture or lead an elite offense by himself.



I think the NFL is about creating value and often times, that's not accomplished by simply doing what people expect you to do.


The Dolphins are likely to make the same moves that've repeatedly found them stuck in mediocrity:
>> Re-signing the wrong players
>> Falling in love with a QB who isn't worth that affection
>> Prioritizing their coaching hires around making prior draft picks look defensible
>> Signing splashy veterans to patch holes where draft picks aren't performing
>> Overlooking cultural & locker room issues in favor of blind optimism
>> Prioritizing the acquisition of splashy guys from FA over their own thus watering down the culture they might've built internally.


These things could've been said about Joe Philbin and Adam Gase just as easily as they're now brought up with Mike McDaniel.


So we constantly ask ourselves existential questions like the following:

>> Is the culture better today than it was?
>> Can we definitively say we've gotten beyond mediocrity?
>> Have we won Playoff games?
>> Are we on an upward trajectory?
>> Are our foundational pieces secure?

The answer to each of those is a resounding, "no...but we're hoping to get lucky this offseason."
Well, that's what it's always been.

A lot of people are tired of talking about the "likely" moves because it hasn't worked for 2+ decades. Meanwhile, we're watching other teams do interesting things every year.


.

Don't disagree, but I'll make a subtle distinction.
Discussing what, for example, Miami is likely to do doesn't imply agreement. I remember the discussions right before signing Suh. I was against that signing, but knew it was likely. I would like Mcd to get a 'real' OC or, at minimum, someone to slap him next time he calls a sweep on 3rd and 1, but I know that's unlikely.
I grow weary of the threads wanting Grier fired. I get it. It's cathartic, but it's more likely Marino comes back on a 5 year deal. Or trade TT.
For now, I don't think Miami has hit it's ceiling. It's 'likely' the 1st 4-6 games will be tough with new faces and a new DC. It's also 'likely' JP, Chubb, and others won't be back or will not be back to peak performance. Those are legitimate discussions I'd like to see without them being hijacked by the mythical 'Grier makes personnel decisions.
Two different things. I can discuss what is likely and still say 'they're idiots.'
 
Did the Chiefs hit their ceiling when they had to offload Tyreek for cap purposes?
Not sure how relevant that comp is. Mahomes can cover a lot of shortcomings. While Tua is a good QB statistically, he is not going to have the same effect as Mahomes as far as lifting the team overall. That's not a knock on Tua. He doesn't have the same skill set. Very very few QBs do.
 
Totally respect that point of view but I'm opposite.

>> The Dolphins are perpetually mediocre, thus we should not be constrained to discussions about what they are likely to do.

Look at all the shocking stuff which has yielded recent NFL success:

(a) The Eagles went to (and won) a Super Bowl only to fire their QB and HC shortly thereafter, yet they ended up right back in the Super Bowl a few years later and almost won. That's pretty unexpected to so quickly replace the two most critical pieces after they earned you a Lombardi...but clearly it worked for the Eagles.

(b) The 49ers got to the Super Bowl with QB1, then decide to go all-in for QB2 in the draft. When he turned out a bust they found their way back to the Super Bowl with QB3. Their surprising openness to change at such a critical position (or at least their ability to get through it) is noteworthy.

(c) The Bengals tanked in dramatic fashion only to end up in the Super Bowl 2 short years later >> with coaches we had employed just a few years prior. That shows how dramatic improvement is possible and how great success should be expected from players who truly change the course of a franchise.

(d) No one expected the Chiefs to trade a HoF-worthy weapon given their passing game was a core strength. But they did and got right back to (and won) the Super Bowl without any dip in the passing game performance--their QB actually got better statistically after the move. There's a huge lesson there involving what is most important in a passing game and in the NFL Playoffs.

(e) Houston traded away a highly-talented QB thought to be a "franchise guy" and ended up in the Playoffs where they beat the team who acquired said QB. By removing an impediment they appear much better than the team who went all-in on the supposedly "proven" commodity.

(f) Seattle traded away another supposed franchise QB only for fans across the NFL to totally lose respect for that guy, viewing him now as an over-paid name who really can't change a culture or lead an elite offense by himself.



I think the NFL is about creating value and often times, that's not accomplished by simply doing what people expect you to do.


The Dolphins are likely to make the same moves that've repeatedly found them stuck in mediocrity:
>> Re-signing the wrong players
>> Falling in love with a QB who isn't worth that affection
>> Prioritizing their coaching hires around making prior draft picks look defensible
>> Signing splashy veterans to patch holes where draft picks aren't performing
>> Overlooking cultural & locker room issues in favor of blind optimism
>> Prioritizing the acquisition of splashy guys from FA over their own thus watering down the culture they might've built internally.


These things could've been said about Joe Philbin and Adam Gase just as easily as they're now brought up with Mike McDaniel.


So we constantly ask ourselves existential questions like the following:

>> Is the culture better today than it was?
>> Can we definitively say we've gotten beyond mediocrity?
>> Have we won Playoff games?
>> Are we on an upward trajectory?
>> Are our foundational pieces secure?

The answer to each of those is a resounding, "no...but we're hoping to get lucky this offseason."
Well, that's what it's always been.

A lot of people are tired of talking about the "likely" moves because it hasn't worked for 2+ decades. Meanwhile, we're watching other teams do interesting things every year.


.
Well said! I understand that different people can look at the same thing and have different opinions. And, some differing opinions might be somewhat similar, while others might be light-years apart. What I can't understand is how some can look at this team and think everything is great, and that injuries were the only reason they didn't get to the Super Bowl last season. If that were so, then why is it that the team has so many holes to fill? It's because the team was never built properly to begin with, and they went "all-in" for 2023 and blew it.

In the quote above, we see that other teams are much better when it comes to finding talent in the draft and building a competitive team. Some of them went from basement dwellers to playoff teams. In a few short years, Detroit went from annual losers to one game away from the Super Bowl. What has Miami done? Nothing. So they made the playoffs in McDaniel's first two years, that's not a big deal. Some teams have made the playoffs with a losing record. Actually, 43.75% of the League makes the playoffs every year, nearly half. What matters is what you do in the playoffs, and that's where Miami craps the bed, and now they have the longest playoff win drought in the NFL.

IMO, this can only mean one thing: the people running the Dolphins are not able to build a contender, even after having a ton of resources available to them during numerous regime changes with various GMs, HCs, and QBs. I will admit that 2023 at first seemed to be different, but in the end, we saw that it was all flash and no substance, because they never had a strong foundation to build upon. What they did was to amass offensive weapons, but they were never able to win in the trenches. Good teams are built from the inside out, but Miami was built from the outside in.

Since Ross never cleans house, this team will be stuck in mediocrity until it gets a new owner who will do what needs to be done to make Miami a proud franchise again, instead of a wannabe contender.
 
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Lol at all the people freaking out...we are gonna be ok and a force to be reckoned with
Special teams I'm worried about.
 
Mahomes is a one time thing and other than Brady probly the best.. we are just gonna have to work harder achieving our goal. 🐻
 
I can't complain about our FO going all in, the injuries ended up in a bad beat.

Grier pivotted from waste those picks to f those picks. and only the fins would lose a 1st in such a way.

the odds of us being better are so slim.
 
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