Dolphins who under-performed their salary level in 2012

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by z926538, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. z926538

    z926538 Rookie

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    Every team in the NFL plays under the salary cap. The existence of the salary cap makes it impossible for a team to have a great player who is paid what he is worth at every single position. It is the job of a general manager to optimize the overall performance of the team by signing a mix of players at different ability levels that win and also fit under the salary cap. Good general managers do this well and their teams win. Bad general managers are unable to succeed at this balancing act.


    One of the frustrating things about being a Dolphins fan is that we have lived for over a decade with general managers who been unable to master the balancing act. In particular, we appear to constantly have players who are overpaid for their performance level. On average (and I do mean average - there are obviously individual exceptions) the Dolphins roster has under-performed their salaries as compared to other teams in the league.


    I would like to hear the board's opinion about who on the 2012 roster under-performed their salary level and what realistically be can be done to address the under-performance problem. This is not intended to be a bash Ireland thread, so don't go down that path. Let's take the wisdom of the members to identify problems and realistic solutions. So, if you make a suggestion, make it real. We can't cut everyone and replace them in free agency.


    I'll start with the easy one: Jake Long in 2012 ate up a huge percentage of the team's salary cap. His actual performance this year under-performed his salary level. Since he is at the end of his contract, there are only two real options. First, you can choose to let him move to free agency and draft a tackle in round 2, 3 or 4 or choose a less expensive replacement in free agency. Second, you can sign him, but only if he agrees to take a contract that is in line with his last two years of on the field performance.

    So who else is under-performing their contract?
     
  2. TwahLah

    TwahLah 3 Fiddy Z Donator

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    Ew, I know! The man, who made us proud to be fans, who's injury played better for the team rather than himself. You already know, or do you?
    Riiiiiichaaaaaaaard Maaaaaaarshall!:limp:
     
  3. RonBrown

    RonBrown Well-Known Member

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    Incognito, Long, Marshall
     
  4. spydertl79

    spydertl79 A True Fan

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    You also have to take into account the difficulty in replacing a player in free agency. Left tackles of Long's caliber don't grow on trees.
     
  5. PlexGod

    PlexGod Starter

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    Long, Fasano and marshall for me.
     
  6. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    gtfo with fasano talk. dude had 5 touchdowns.
     
  7. footsteps_falco

    footsteps_falco Damn SugarBowl Finheaven VIP Donator

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    1. Karlos Dansby - he is a solid linebacker and leader, but he is not the playmaker or game changer that his contract suggests.

    2. Richard Marshall - I don't think he was worth the money we threw at him, he didn't play well and then got hurt...

    3. Tony McDaniel - are we really paying a backup DT this much?

    4. Nate Garner - see above

    5. Jake Long - Ugh I hate to put him on here, he isn't playing up to his money but at the same time he's the one guy worth overpaying. I still trust him any given sunday. There is something about Long/Incognito/Pouncey that you have to know other teams are stressing that matchup. These guys live and die as a unit, I don't see how you can break that up.




    Here is my follow up question: As much as all teams have players who underplay their contracts... who on the Dolphins is outplaying their contract?

    Reshad Jones, Kevin Burnett, Brian Hartline, Mike Pouncey.
     
  8. z926538

    z926538 Rookie

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    I agree that left tackles of Long's caliber don't grow on trees. The issue with Long is that he is taking up a huge amount of salary cap. An absolutely freaking huge amount of salary cap, around 20% if I remember correctly. Given his injury and his slight regression in skills in the last two seasons, can we really afford to be spending that much money on him alone? Would it not be possible and better to bring in a serviceable tackle who takes up much less salary cap and use the remaining part of that salary cap space to upgrade other positions? That is exactly the approach used by many franchises with a better recent history than the Dolphins.
     
  9. kvado16

    kvado16 A True Fan

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    Idk the more I think about it, I think we need to give Long a big contract, I know he's had injury issues and all and that is all very unfortunate. But truth of the matter is that Jake Long has the stench of a hall of famer, a player of his caliber will eventually overcome his injury issues. I have this feeling that if he does come back which he should, that he will have a career year, and we'll finish in the top 5 in rushing. I know its a bold statement but it's just what I believe.
     
  10. z926538

    z926538 Rookie

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    OK, you decide to bring him back. What percentage of the entire team's salary cap are you willing to spend to bring him back? Every dollar that goes to Jake Long is a dollar that can't be used to improve a different position on the team.
     
  11. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

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    Karlos Dansby lead this defense.

    It's not his fault that his contract was boosted because of FA. He is a damn good LB. Damn good.

    Like WVDolphan said, Dansby is my homeboy.
     
  12. kvado16

    kvado16 A True Fan

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    Big whoop, we've got 5 draft picks in the first three rounds. Who do we really need thats in the free agency besides a receiver? If anything you can argue that Jake is the best free agent available, and I don't know about you but I want to protect my quarterback. Do you know the key to New England's success? It's protecting Brady. Besides we'll still have more than enough money to get a Mike Wallace, or Greg Jennings.
     
  13. z926538

    z926538 Rookie

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    It sounds like you believe that his play was good, but it did not reach the level of performance you would expect for his contract. Do I understand what you are saying? If so, how do you improve his performance so it matches what he is being paid. Or should we try to find a cheaper player who plays at the same level.

    Once again, every player on the team who is overpaid for his current performance is eating salary cap dollars that can be used to improve the rest of the team.
     
  14. kvado16

    kvado16 A True Fan

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    Your logic is very skewed, what is this madden? We don't know the rating of each player, or how good they are. Its not as simple as finding someone who plays at Dansby's level and paying him less. Point is you don't cut good players, Dansby is a good player you don't let him go.
     
  15. z926538

    z926538 Rookie

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    From my reading of this board we're going to need to resign Starks and Smith, upgrade at the other corner and safety, find another pass rushing defensive end, rebuild at left and right guard, find a #1 and #2 skilled wide receiver, find a tight end who can run seam routes, replace Matt Moore at backup QB, and replace Nate Garner at backup tackle. I don't think we can do that with the five picks that we have in the first three rounds. So I ask again, how much of the salary cap would be willing to pay Jake Long? 10%? 15%? 20%? 25%? If you could go from using 20% of the cap down to 10% of the cap, and only give up five additional sacks next season, would it be worth it to have the additional money to improve at the other positions? Or is minimizing sacks so important that we should deliberately handcuff ourselves at these other positions because we're spending the money on Jake Long.
     
  16. PlexGod

    PlexGod Starter

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    Wow not a whole 5 TDs.... read the question. The guy is getting paid 3.6 mil this year which is top 12 TE money in the league and got out played by guys getting paid half as much. He had 5 tds yeah and only 330 yards receiving. Guy like Pitta are getting paid 600K and had 670 and 7 tds. Gresham is getting paid less and had 700+ yards and 5 tds. Bennett also less $$ and had 600+ yards and 5 tds. Jeff cumberland the jets back up TE getting paid min salary had 360 yards and 3 tds. Hes a back up with suckhez as his qb and had more yards and almost as many TDs as Fasano. So yeah keep think oh he had 5 tds cuz he didnt do anything else and got out played by alot of guys getting paid less then him so yeah ill say he underacheived big time for the money he got paid this year. Is that not the purpose of this thread? Please tell me how he lived up to the amount of money he made with his pplay this year? U GTFO and read the post before u answer next time.
     
  17. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Sorry I was unaware that yardage won games and not touchdowns.
     
  18. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    there are only 9 TEs with more than fasano's five touchdowns. Which means if he's getting paid as the 12th highest TE, and yet he was ranked in the top 10 in touchdowns, he outperformed his contract.
     
  19. GasPed

    GasPed A True Fan

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    Actually, the key to New England's success is Tom Brady. And if you think continuing to pay Jake Long mega millions will somehow make us more like them, you're probably sharing your brain with Jeff Ireland (which, come to think of it, would explain a lot of things...).

    Show me a list of teams who've made their LT the best paid player on the team, and I'll show you a list of perennial underachievers.
     
  20. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero Donator

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    According to one poster (who actually posted this garbage), Bess is overpaid at about 2.5M/year on average.
     
  21. kvado16

    kvado16 A True Fan

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    Yes, cause if Brady was on his *** at least 4 times a game there chances of winning decreases dramatically. Giants proved this theory, why do you think the Pats put more of their resources into the offensive line. Btw it's common sense that you protect the QB. And when your best player is your LT then yes you do pay him, and I never said we would be like New England but they have right idea.
     
  22. z926538

    z926538 Rookie

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    This type of analysis and discussion is the entire reason I started this thread. We're debating what characteristics makes particular players good. Elite (championships) teams tend to have a small number of highly paid players whose performance matches their pay and a large number of cheaper players whose performance is much higher than what you would expect for their pay. They tend to minimize the number of players who are overpaid for their performance level. Since the Dolphins have been mediocre for a very long time, our GMs must have been making bad choices -- overpaying for less than stellar talent and allocating too much money to certain positions in a way that handcuffed them at the other positions. Understanding who isn't contributing at a level appropriate for their salary is the start of fixing a team. Figuring out how to fix it is an entire different problem.

    BTW, I don't have problem with overpaying in free agency for an extremely good player as long as you understood up front that you are doing it and have a plan for dealing with how that will handcuff you when wanting to spend at other positions. Every team that signs a free agent in some sense overpaying for that talent. So I do understand the Dansby situation. I just think you need to have a reasonable plan for how you are going to optimize the other positions when you don't adequate money to spend on them.
     
  23. King Dingaling

    King Dingaling Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry but Jake Long cannot be signed if this team ever wants to compete. He going to require about 12 million a year and for a declining player that is always injured, is way too much!!! I love the guy but we could get 2 playmakers for that price. We can draft an athletic Tackle in the draft and be better off. Garner is terrible and I hope he is not resigned either.
     
  24. kvado16

    kvado16 A True Fan

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    And don't you think letting go of an elite player like Long, would create a gaping hole?
     
  25. z926538

    z926538 Rookie

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    Absolutely it will create a hole. The question in my mind is can we use his current dollars under the cap to get better as a team by getting an adequate but not elite left tackle and still have money left over to improve other positions, or must we spend the same or more money on Jake Long and handicap our ability to improve the rest of the team? We'd all like Jake to come back under a significant pay cut, but Jake is going to want the same or more money than he is getting now. That eats up a huge amount of our cap. Any money going to Jake is money not available to upgrade other positions.
     
  26. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I think it creates a hole on the right side of the line. However it opens up the ability to sign 2 or 3 other players to fill needs elsewhere on the team.
     
  27. kvado16

    kvado16 A True Fan

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    I agree that he's going to want more money, and yes based on the last 2 years in which he hasn't played elite I'd offer him a lower contract than his last one, but I'm saying if the only way we can get him back is by paying him, then **** I'd be obliged to do it because he is still is a great left tackle and is a great asset to us.
     
  28. z926538

    z926538 Rookie

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    I appreciate the level of discussion in this thread and thank you all for your well argued contributions. Obviously what to do with Long and Fasano are two of the key decisions that our GM must handle this year. Getting back to the original premise of the post, are there other players who you feel are significantly under-performing their pay level? I think an argument could be made that Carpenter falls into this category.
     
  29. kvado16

    kvado16 A True Fan

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    Lol yes Carpenter, I think he gets paid like 3 million year someone stated. We can definitely can get a rookie kicker for cheaper. Btw yea I agree I do love discussing Miami football with others, and appreciate the fact that we each have different opinions about stuff. But be careful on this forum, people get a bit too disrespectful.
     
  30. z926538

    z926538 Rookie

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    Getting a rookie kicker (or FA) for cheaper seems like a no-brainer to me, but I'd like hear people who have a contrary opinion.

    WRT disrespect, that's why I asked that this thread not devolve into a trash Ireland thread. I want us to consider and intelligently debate the issues that our GM faces this offseason, not discuss who is making the decisions.
     

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