For the Matt Ryan haters/Beck lovers...

[cnc66]

I've alwasy respected your opinions, but you're telling me that those two leave no doubt in you mind??? Nothing about speed or motivation?? NOthing about undersized???

no, I didn't say that, I was responding to your statement;

There really isn't a can't miss prospect to make us not consider Ryan.

I am convinced that the two I named are the LEAST likely to let us down. I have nearly zero doubt that "they" will perform as advertised. All prospects have a chance of flopping, but Dorsey and Long are as sure a pick as you will find in this draft. I consider Ryan barley worthy in the top ten. Imo, people here are letting their perceived "need" for a franchise qb cloud their ability to see the "true" value of the available choices. I am sure Ryan will be an ok qb, but again, imo, he isn't any better , or more likely to succeed than Beck, who we have already paid for.

I would consider Ryan a great waste of value at the number one pick, as he has shown me very little that convinces me he will excel above being good... a "franchise" qb, imo, he is not, he's just the flavor of the week.

 

[PhinsTD]

Get ready to love him then because he's only 26 and will only be 27 in late August.

Whoops...you're right. Thought he was a few months older than Eli, instead of a few months younger...still older for an NFL QB prospect, but at this point that is a sunken cost.

 

[emocomputerjock]

I've alwasy respected your opinions, but you're telling me that those two leave no doubt in you mind??? Nothing about speed or motivation?? NOthing about undersized???

I don't want to jump in on Marty's post here, but I'll state that I see nothing wrong with Dorsey at all, and I see nothing wrong with Chris Long at the DE position. I like Long a lot, and I think he's going to be a great player - but I don't think he'll make the transition to OLB as easily as has been predicted. It's not due to his work ethic - that's sparkling. It's just a matter of experience and time.

 

[Regina Phin]

I hate all this swooning that's going on for Matt Ryan. I could maybe understand if Beck had played the whole season and been terrible and/or if we had been an average to good team and he had come in and been terrible, but the fact is that we were HORRIBLE last year, lost our starting RB, traded away our #1 receiver and were playing with an overachieving offensive line. So people are surprised when the rookie QB fails? That's pretty ridiculous.

Here are some stats:

81 Completions
146 Attempts
55.5% Completion Percentage

3 TDS
11 Interceptions
QB Ratings of 58.6, 51.1, 39.3 and 63.2


So based on what I'm hearing here, the Colts should have benched Manning after that start to the season and then packaged him in a deal to trade up and pick Tim Couch the next year.

Makes sense to me.... :rolleyes2:

 

[adamprez2003]

These arguments that we shouldnt draft Ryan because we have Beck are ridiculous. Using that logic we cant draft Dorsey because we have Solia, we cant draft Chris Long because we have Matt Roth. Using this line of reasoning the only player we'll be able to draft is TE John Carlson. Brilliant

 

[emocomputerjock]

These arguments that we shouldnt draft Ryan because we have Beck are ridiculous. Using that logic we cant draft Dorsey because we have Solia, we cant draft Chris Long because we have Matt Roth. Using this line of reasoning the only player we'll be able to draft is TE John Carlson. Brilliant

Just to throw this friendly reminder into the discussion: just because someone has a guy ranked as the #1 QB overall doesn't mean he's worth the #1 pick overall, especially in comparison to players that have proven themselves to be worth it.

 

[Regina Phin]

These arguments that we shouldnt draft Ryan because we have Beck are ridiculous. Using that logic we cant draft Dorsey because we have Solia, we cant draft Chris Long because we have Matt Roth. Using this line of reasoning the only player we'll be able to draft is TE John Carlson. Brilliant

We can only tie so much money up in QBs.

Again, if our team was half-decent I'd be more than willing to take a risk and gamble the pick away on a QB that could be franchise or could be average, but the fact is that we have a ton of holes to plug and I just don't see dumping a ton more guaranteed money into the QB position as the answer.

 

[Silverphin]

These arguments that we shouldnt draft Ryan because we have Beck are ridiculous. Using that logic we cant draft Dorsey because we have Solia, we cant draft Chris Long because we have Matt Roth. Using this line of reasoning the only player we'll be able to draft is TE John Carlson. Brilliant

Not exactly true. If we draft Dorsey, he wouldn't automatically be a nose tackle. He could be a 3-4 end. And if we draft Chris Long, he could an outside linebacker.

 

[Coral Reefer]

These arguments that we shouldnt draft Ryan because we have Beck are ridiculous. Using that logic we cant draft Dorsey because we have Solia, we cant draft Chris Long because we have Matt Roth. Using this line of reasoning the only player we'll be able to draft is TE John Carlson. Brilliant

Yeah, that's a directly comparable situation. :rolleyes2:

 

[adamprez2003]

Just to throw this friendly reminder into the discussion: just because someone has a guy ranked as the #1 QB overall doesn't mean he's worth the #1 pick overall, especially in comparison to players that have proven themselves to be worth it.

That assumes there are players that have proven they are worth #1 and assuming Ryan isnt one of them. GM Tom Heckert believes Ryan is worth a #1

Also lets look at the salray cap implications of drafting DE, DT or OLB. The cap is 116 approximately. We currently have 12 million tied up in LB. Whoever we draft is going to count 7 mill to 9 mil against the cap depending on how they structure the deal. We have to add a ILB and rumors are circulating that we're targeting Briggs. Lets say we draft our ILB in the 2nd round. Thats an additional 1 mil to 2 mil and Briggs will cost 7 mill. There is no way we're tying up 27 million in linebackers approximately 23% of the salary cap.

OK lets draft Dorsey then. You simply dont pay a rookie 3-4 NT 7 to 9 million. Sorry, never going to happen

Well lets play Long at DE. Fair enough. Salary cap wise not a problem. The bigger problem however is he's not a great 3-4 DE. Will he be a good 3-4 DE, yes. Will he be a great 3-4 DE not a chance. If we're going to bypass QB to draft a 3-4 DE then Phillip Merling makes the most sense. He's better at stopping the run, has more upside and has the ability to rush the pass. Problem is the highest anyone has him slotted is 9th. Also we could get Justin Smith for less and he's a proven player. Unfortunately for the QB position there is noone available that's any good in FA.

No matter how you look at it, at the end of the day its either we strike gold and trade down or Matt Ryan will be wearing a Dolphins uniform

 

[cnc66]

That assumes there are players that have proven they are worth #1 and assuming Ryan isnt one of them. GM Tom Heckert believes Ryan is worth a #1

Also lets look at the salray cap implications of drafting DE, DT or OLB. The cap is 116 approximately. We currently have 12 million tied up in LB. Whoever we draft is going to count 7 mill to 9 mil against the cap depending on how they structure the deal. We have to add a ILB and rumors are circulating that we're targeting Briggs. Lets say we draft our ILB in the 2nd round. Thats an additional 1 mil to 2 mil and Briggs will cost 7 mill. There is no way we're tying up 27 million in linebackers approximately 23% of the salary cap.

OK lets draft Dorsey then. You simply dont pay a rookie 3-4 NT 7 to 9 million. Sorry, never going to happen

Well lets play Long at DE. Fair enough. Salary cap wise not a problem. The bigger problem however is he's not a great 3-4 DE. Will he be a good 3-4 DE, yes. Will he be a great 3-4 DE not a chance. If we're going to bypass QB to draft a 3-4 DE then Phillip Merling makes the most sense. He's better at stopping the run, has more upside and has the ability to rush the pass. Problem is the highest anyone has him slotted is 9th. Also we could get Justin Smith for less and he's a proven player. Unfortunately for the QB position there is noone available that's any good in FA.

No matter how you look at it, at the end of the day its either we strike gold and trade down or Matt Ryan will be wearing a Dolphins uniform

do you have that link handy.. I don't recall him sayong that

 

[adamprez2003]

do you have that link handy.. I don't recall him sayong that

I showed you that link three days ago the last time you asked the same question

 

[adamprez2003]

here you go cncc

If you needed a quarterback, you'd have to take Matt Ryan," Eagles general manager Tom Heckert said. "He's going to have growing pains, but he's big and super smart. All the intangibles are great."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-080124dan-pompei-nfl-draft,0,6208977.column

 

[emocomputerjock]

That assumes there are players that have proven they are worth #1 and assuming Ryan isnt one of them. GM Tom Heckert believes Ryan is worth a #1

Also lets look at the salray cap implications of drafting DE, DT or OLB. The cap is 116 approximately. We currently have 12 million tied up in LB. Whoever we draft is going to count 7 mill to 9 mil against the cap depending on how they structure the deal. We have to add a ILB and rumors are circulating that we're targeting Briggs. Lets say we draft our ILB in the 2nd round. Thats an additional 1 mil to 2 mil and Briggs will cost 7 mill. There is no way we're tying up 27 million in linebackers approximately 23% of the salary cap.

OK lets draft Dorsey then. You simply dont pay a rookie 3-4 NT 7 to 9 million. Sorry, never going to happen

Well lets play Long at DE. Fair enough. Salary cap wise not a problem. The bigger problem however is he's not a great 3-4 DE. Will he be a good 3-4 DE, yes. Will he be a great 3-4 DE not a chance. If we're going to bypass QB to draft a 3-4 DE then Phillip Merling makes the most sense. He's better at stopping the run, has more upside and has the ability to rush the pass. Problem is the highest anyone has him slotted is 9th. Also we could get Justin Smith for less and he's a proven player. Unfortunately for the QB position there is noone available that's any good in FA.

No matter how you look at it, at the end of the day its either we strike gold and trade down or Matt Ryan will be wearing a Dolphins uniform

You make several WAGS and presumptions in your post that thoroughly shed doubt on your talent appraisal.

First, there's been absolutely nothing at all to state that Dorsey *has* to be a nose tackle in a 3-4, or even if we're running a 3-4. Secondly, given that Dorsey can line up at pretty much any gap on the line and occupy two blockers, your statement that he's not worth 7-9 million dollars is flat out incorrect.

Thirdly, your entire paragraph on Chris Long is pure conjecture. Wild *** speculation. Pure fantastic prognostication. I'm not even going to dignify it with a response outside of stating that your statement of us investing any particular amount of money in linebackers is ludicrous when other teams have amounts approaching that number in *one* defensive player, let alone the core unit of their run-stopping and pass protection gameplan.

You can defend Ryan all you want, and I know you will despite the abundance of facts at your disposal, but to invent scenarios entirely to fit your vision of the future is the mark of a man too involved in fantasy and conjecture to accept the truth.

 

[cnc66]

here you go cncc

If you needed a quarterback, you'd have to take Matt Ryan," Eagles general manager Tom Heckert said. "He's going to have growing pains, but he's big and super smart. All the intangibles are great."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/cs-080124dan-pompei-nfl-draft,0,6208977.column

Thank you Adam.

I think you are stretching the statement, Heckert did not say he was worth a number one, you are assuming.. and hoping he was. We don't NEED a qb so badly that we should waste the value of the first overall pick for someone who is likly not any great improvement over John Beck. Imo, Ryan is not a franchise qb, and THAT is why you don't blow the first pick on him.

Your assement of Ryans actual value is very different than mine, and only the anouncment by the commish will show us who is correct. :up: