Full AFC East Grades (Plus NY Giants)

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

The newest one of course being that the Dolphins were so unprepared for Judge Nelson to lift the lockout that they weren't able to hand out playbooks to their players before the 8th Circuit granted their administrative stay.

Yeah, and it seemed to be such an easy thing to predict too. Or at least that she would not stay her order once she granted the injunction.

But to be fair, I practice law and Jeff and Tony don't, so it might not have been as easy to foresee by them.....

My gut still says fumble though.

 

[ckparrothead]

Yeah, and it seemed to be such an easy thing to predict too. Or at least that she would not stay her order once she granted the injunction.

But to be fair, I practice law and Jeff and Tony don't, so it might not have been as easy to foresee by them.....

My gut still says fumble though.

These guys spent $5 million to evaluate the 2011 NFL Draft. They couldn't spend $1000 for a legal consult to explain to them what's going to happen with the lawsuit?

Hell, I'm not a lawyer, I knew she would lift the lockout that Monday. The NFL and NFLPA concluded another fruitless mediation endeavor that ended with them promising not to negotiate again until May 16th, and so then Judge Nelson ordered all parties to be present in court the very next Monday. It was WIDELY expected and anticipated that she would end the lockout at that Monday court date.

Go to ****ing Ginkos and print out some goddamn playbooks! Jesus. How hard is that?

Then as soon as the lockout is lifted, you Fedex those playbooks to every goddamn player on your roster, whereve the hell his home address is listed. Send out texts, send out voicemails, meet with key players ASAP to discuss the new offense. You knew the NFL was going to bring it to the 8th Circuit immediately, asking for a stay...you knew the window could be small. I knew, and I'm no lawyer.

 

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

I agree, I was trying to be a bit charitable.....

 

[ckparrothead]

The only exception would be pending free agents you don't expect back. But guys like Tyler Thigpen, you placed a high RFA tag on him, so you probably expect him back. If you think that's chancy, then fine...don't give him a playbook. But Mike Pouncey at the very least should have received a playbook before the administrative stay was granted on Friday preventing guys like Daniel Thomas, Edmond Gates and Charles Clay from getting theirs. Other players elsewhere are getting their playbooks the night they were drafted. I hear Torrey Smith has his playbook. He was drafted on Day 2 when the administrative stay was already granted. If they can get away with it, so can we.

I think the reality of what Tony Sparano was saying is...the playbook hasn't even been finalized yet. New offensive coordinator, he's going to want to bring his elements of the playbook in and they have to marry them with Tony Sparano's concepts and any holdover stuff they want to keep in just because that's what the players know...and they also want to have some idea of what kind of players they will have on offense, and they could have a new QB, new RBs, etc...there's a lot in flux.

Even if that's the case, I don't buy it. You have to anticipate and you have to have more clear ideas of what you're doing.

 

[hoops]

i think you might be giving these guys too much credit if you think the playbooks even done...this solid gold offense that daboll hid from his employer the browns the last 2 years

ugh...

 

[Mr. Magoo]

Two things are happening that I sense:

1. People that didn't like Ryan Mallett all along are emboldened by the fact that Miami didn't take him and that he fell to the Patriots' willing arms, and so they want to speak up and gloat about it as if they've been "proven" correct even though nothing will have been "proven" until years down the road.

2. People that were convinced into liking Ryan Mallett in part by my opinion but also by the mass groundswell of public sentiment in Miami toward him, feel really sore over the whole thing and burned for liking Ryan Mallett, and so they just don't want to hear opinions that continue to insist that Mallett is good.

If I can appeal to peoples' sense of logic for a moment and not their emotionalism, I would simply ask them, what kind of analyst would I be if I was such a weathervane that the mere fact that the Miami Dolphins passed on a guy, or the mere fact that the Miami Dolphins took someone, made me change opinions on these players that have been months in forming? You can say the entire NFL doubts a certain guy because they didn't take him until a certain point in the Draft, but then doesn't that also apply to the universally-loved and heralded draft pick we got in the 4th round, Edmond Gates of Abilene Christian? Nearly every team in the NFL passed on him three times. You don't see a ton of people bringing THAT one up, do you? Or what about Daniel Thomas, who is now suddenly a "premier back" even though nearly every team in the NFL passed on him twice (about the same number of times they passed on Ryan Mallett)?

You don't see any shortage of acceptance for opinions saying that Daniel Thomas or Edmond Gates are "steals" do you? No. But continued high opinions of Ryan Mallett are not tolerated. Why?

Simple answer: emotionalism.

I don't entirely agree. I think most people were convinced about Mallett's talent. Outside of the perception that he folds under pressure at the end of games, that was never particularly in question (I was in the minority on this).

The question was about his character and all those off the field rumors. And the thing you and Simon's piece about Mallett did more than anything, in my opinion, was convince a lot of people that those concerns were entirely overblown if not outright fabricated.

I don't think it's simple emotionalism to see Mallett's slide to the 3rd and conclude that there was something to those rumors after all... and perhaps even worse things than were already hinted to.

I don't blame you for -- having done the legwork yourself -- not buying into that perception. For thinking that the teams got it wrong. But most people just aren't as invested in him as you. They realize that more often than not, the people who do the background checks for NFL franchises get their work right.

 

[BlueFin]

Evidently sources in Miami have told Armando Salguero that they tried hard to trade back into the 3rd round ahead of New England to get Mallett. They said they liked him and they think he's going to be a good quarterback.

Yes, I'm serious.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...eportedly-tried-to-tried-up-for-ryan-mallett/

Don't you love the double talk, "we are not desperate for a QB", but, they tried to trade back into round 3 for Mallett.

This reeks of a GM not sure of what he's doing.

 

[hoops]

Don't you love the double talk, "we are not desperate for a QB", but, they tried to trade back into round 3 for Mallett.

This reeks of a GM not sure of what he's doing.

it's called cya...cover your ***

 

[phintim]

Two things are happening that I sense:

1. People that didn't like Ryan Mallett all along are emboldened by the fact that Miami didn't take him and that he fell to the Patriots' willing arms, and so they want to speak up and gloat about it as if they've been "proven" correct even though nothing will have been "proven" until years down the road.

2. People that were convinced into liking Ryan Mallett in part by my opinion but also by the mass groundswell of public sentiment in Miami toward him, feel really sore over the whole thing and burned for liking Ryan Mallett, and so they just don't want to hear opinions that continue to insist that Mallett is good.

If I can appeal to peoples' sense of logic for a moment and not their emotionalism, I would simply ask them, what kind of analyst would I be if I was such a weathervane that the mere fact that the Miami Dolphins passed on a guy, or the mere fact that the Miami Dolphins took someone, made me change opinions on these players that have been months in forming? You can say the entire NFL doubts a certain guy because they didn't take him until a certain point in the Draft, but then doesn't that also apply to the universally-loved and heralded draft pick we got in the 4th round, Edmond Gates of Abilene Christian? Nearly every team in the NFL passed on him three times. You don't see a ton of people bringing THAT one up, do you? Or what about Daniel Thomas, who is now suddenly a "premier back" even though nearly every team in the NFL passed on him twice (about the same number of times they passed on Ryan Mallett)?

You don't see any shortage of acceptance for opinions saying that Daniel Thomas or Edmond Gates are "steals" do you? No. But continued high opinions of Ryan Mallett are not tolerated. Why?

Simple answer: emotionalism.

Well a couple of your threads appeared a bit stressed out and agressive regarding the Dolphins not drafting Mallett. Kind of like you were on the attack. So its natural to get a bit of a rebutal when that happens. Still it is understandable you are standing up for something you deeply believe in not just the player but the QB position.
As I believe you have stated the Dolphins brass are looking at this thing in the short term during this draft instead of the long term down the road which is required when dealing with the quarterback position.
I personally was having a hard time going into this draft wrapping my mind about how they were going to approach the draft this year especially after following all your threads regarding drafting Mallet.
It wasn't that I was not on board with drafting Mallet either it was more I wanted to get a sense of who they were targeting to draft with some sort of logic behind it. At least for myself. Eventually very close to the draft I became fairly convinced that they were not going to draft Mallett in the first round like you hoped and the only 2 QB's they would consider drafting in that round would be Newton (who was definitly going early) or Blaine Galbert. Anyway the other facts that I thought was very important to consider was what Ireland and Tony S had to say in their pre draft press conference, Irelands past draft history with the phins and their precarious job situation.
Saying that this is how I broke it down and it made logical sense to me and if I were in their shoes you would have to consider it.

1. Job situation (they have to win now) so A. A rookie QB is very doubtful to make that happen and B the high draft pick used on the rookie QB might be used elsewhere on the offense to allow the winning to happen sooner rather than later.

2. Past Irelands draft history suggested we pick big physcial players at a position of need. This is debatable but the most immediate positions of need that would return the most immediate results as far as winning are running back and offensive line.

3. Press Conference: Ireland in his press conference IMO bascially blew off drafting Mallet early when in that same press conference pointed out that the sucessful running backs are drafted early.

4. Take into consideration that Tony this year now had more say in the draft and every year he has spent a lot of resourses at this positon then I felt stongly that it was going to be addressed in the first two rounds.

We could continue on about the logic and the sense of this draft because in the rear view mirror this draft really addressed many of the key issues that were ailing the team last year. Wether we drafted the right players is the question but Ireland has delivered as much or more than most GM's.

That is not to say your position is wrong either because the 2 most important positoins on the team are the QB and head coach.
So far Henne might be average at best and as you point out you take a good/great QB when you can find them not when you are ready find them. Still theses guys are trying to save their jobs this year would Mallett get that done. Very debatable but I don't think so. So this gets us to how good are Ireland and Sporano.

I like Ireland and like the QB position would like to hold onto him unless someone better comes along. I used to like Sporano hard worker, willing to take chances (think wildcat) and I beleive a staight shooter but like many I am becoming less convince he is up to the job.
Especially when our offensive line is a problem and his special teams coach failed us 2 years in a row. Those are both his areas of control and therefore he gets the blame. IMO
Going back to the draft one last time Thomas was the right pick for what this team needed this year at the position of running back which was a priority. So while he is the right pick for right now Mallett had the greater possible value for this team for the next 10 years so he was the better pick. Too bad they were drafting to save their jobs which swayed their judgement. I tend to beleive that they really saw what you saw in Mallett which is why I believe they did try to draft back up into the 3rd round to grab the guy. They just did not have enough bullets. This draft really fell apart when they could not trade back in that first round or I believe you would be one happy phin phan today!
So many or now hoping that because Mallett is a Pat that all your assessments were wrong and that just natural to want to hate the "percieved" enemy.

 

[ckparrothead]

I don't entirely agree. I think most people were convinced about Mallett's talent. Outside of the perception that he folds under pressure at the end of games, that was never particularly in question (I was in the minority on this).

The question was about his character and all those off the field rumors. And the thing you and Simon's piece about Mallett did more than anything, in my opinion, was convince a lot of people that those concerns were entirely overblown if not outright fabricated.

I don't think it's simple emotionalism to see Mallett's slide to the 3rd and conclude that there was something to those rumors after all... and perhaps even worse things than were already hinted to.

I don't blame you for -- having done the legwork yourself -- not buying into that perception. For thinking that the teams got it wrong. But most people just aren't as invested in him as you. They realize that more often than not, the people who do the background checks for NFL franchises get their work right.

I don't think you're precisely addressing what I wrote. I think you've changed the issue. I don't take issue with anyone that has had their minds changed by the fact that Mallett fell to NE's pick at the top of the 3rd round. If those people weren't confident enough in their own research to draw conclusions that they feel good about regardless of whether the Dolphins or a few other NFL teams agree...that's fine. It's not at all what my post addressed.

My post addressed the intolerance of people toward the continued high opinions of Ryan Mallett, intolerance toward the natural offshoot of those continued high opinions, which is a criticism of the Miami Dolphins for passing on him. And yet, as I pointed out, lots of NFL teams passed on lots of players lots of times, and those players are now openly referred to as "steals" and "premium", etc...because they now happen to be Miami Dolphins. This is hypocritical.

 

[finsfanjay13]

Two things are happening that I sense:

1. People that didn't like Ryan Mallett all along are emboldened by the fact that Miami didn't take him and that he fell to the Patriots' willing arms, and so they want to speak up and gloat about it as if they've been "proven" correct even though nothing will have been "proven" until years down the road.

2. People that were convinced into liking Ryan Mallett in part by my opinion but also by the mass groundswell of public sentiment in Miami toward him, feel really sore over the whole thing and burned for liking Ryan Mallett, and so they just don't want to hear opinions that continue to insist that Mallett is good.

If I can appeal to peoples' sense of logic for a moment and not their emotionalism, I would simply ask them, what kind of analyst would I be if I was such a weathervane that the mere fact that the Miami Dolphins passed on a guy, or the mere fact that the Miami Dolphins took someone, made me change opinions on these players that have been months in forming? You can say the entire NFL doubts a certain guy because they didn't take him until a certain point in the Draft, but then doesn't that also apply to the universally-loved and heralded draft pick we got in the 4th round, Edmond Gates of Abilene Christian? Nearly every team in the NFL passed on him three times. You don't see a ton of people bringing THAT one up, do you? Or what about Daniel Thomas, who is now suddenly a "premier back" even though nearly every team in the NFL passed on him twice (about the same number of times they passed on Ryan Mallett)?

You don't see any shortage of acceptance for opinions saying that Daniel Thomas or Edmond Gates are "steals" do you? No. But continued high opinions of Ryan Mallett are not tolerated. Why?

Simple answer: emotionalism.

It is of my opinion that Ryan Mallett was a steal. I also believe that Edmund Gates was a steal. I do not believe Daniel Thomas was a steal, but the Dolphins had to trade up to get him because he probably wouldn't have been around any longer by the time they were to select in the 3rd round. It is no coincidence that the Patriots made a reach by drafting Stevan Ridley #73 overall. Also, if I had to look at it objectively, the Patriots selecting Shane Vereen in the 2nd (who could turn out to be a good player) and Ridley in the 3rd was worse than Miami trading up for Thomas.

With that said, you are arguing emotionalism to the newly drafted Dolphins, but you are *also* showing invested emotions with your continued defense of Mallett. Unfortunately, it no longer matters. It's done. Time to move on. I would have liked Mallett myself, and I think it was a mistake not to draft him, but it's over with now.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Well a couple of your threads appeared a bit stressed out and agressive regarding the Dolphins not drafting Mallett. Kind of like you were on the attack. So its natural to get a bit of a rebutal when that happens. Still it is understandable you are standing up for something you deeply believe in not just the player but the QB position.
As I believe you have stated the Dolphins brass are looking at this thing in the short term during this draft instead of the long term down the road which is required when dealing with the quarterback position.
I personally was having a hard time going into this draft wrapping my mind about how they were going to approach the draft this year especially after following all your threads regarding drafting Mallet.
It wasn't that I was not on board with drafting Mallet either it was more I wanted to get a sense of who they were targeting to draft with some sort of logic behind it. At least for myself. Eventually very close to the draft I became fairly convinced that they were not going to draft Mallett in the first round like you hoped and the only 2 QB's they would consider drafting in that round would be Newton (who was definitly going early) or Blaine Galbert. Anyway the other facts that I thought was very important to consider was what Ireland and Tony S had to say in their pre draft press conference, Irelands past draft history with the phins and their precarious job situation.
Saying that this is how I broke it down and it made logical sense to me and if I were in their shoes you would have to consider it.

1. Job situation (they have to win now) so A. A rookie QB is very doubtful to make that happen and B the high draft pick used on the rookie QB might be used elsewhere on the offense to allow the winning to happen sooner rather than later.

2. Past Irelands draft history suggested we pick big physcial players at a position of need. This is debatable but the most immediate positions of need that would return the most immediate results as far as winning are running back and offensive line.

3. Press Conference: Ireland in his press conference IMO bascially blew off drafting Mallet early when in that same press conference pointed out that the sucessful running backs are drafted early.

4. Take into consideration that Tony this year now had more say in the draft and every year he has spent a lot of resourses at this positon then I felt stongly that it was going to be addressed in the first two rounds.

We could continue on about the logic and the sense of this draft because in the rear view mirror this draft really addressed many of the key issues that were ailing the team last year. Wether we drafted the right players is the question but Ireland has delivered as much or more than most GM's.

That is not to say your position is wrong either because the 2 most important positoins on the team are the QB and head coach.
So far Henne might be average at best and as you point out you take a good/great QB when you can find them not when you are ready find them. Still theses guys are trying to save their jobs this year would Mallett get that done. Very debatable but I don't think so. So this gets us to how good are Ireland and Sporano.

I like Ireland and like the QB position would like to hold onto him unless someone better comes along. I used to like Sporano hard worker, willing to take chances (think wildcat) and I beleive a staight shooter but like many I am becoming less convince he is up to the job.
Especially when our offensive line is a problem and his special teams coach failed us 2 years in a row. Those are both his areas of control and therefore he gets the blame. IMO
Going back to the draft one last time Thomas was the right pick for what this team needed this year at the position of running back which was a priority. So while he is the right pick for right now Mallett had the greater possible value for this team for the next 10 years so he was the better pick. Too bad they were drafting to save their jobs which swayed their judgement. I tend to beleive that they really saw what you saw in Mallett which is why I believe they did try to draft back up into the 3rd round to grab the guy. They just did not have enough bullets. This draft really fell apart when they could not trade back in that first round or I believe you would be one happy phin phan today!
So many or now hoping that because Mallett is a Pat that all your assessments were wrong and that just natural to want to hate the "percieved" enemy.

Let me chime in here for a second..


I think most people already knew these guys were going to draft based on what gave them the best chance to squeak out another year of cashing a paycheck... that's no surprise.

I like most of the players Miami drafted, I think they got some really good football players and addressed critical needs. However, I don't agree with where or how they chose to address them the first 2 days of the draft.

Everyone that didn't want Mark Ingram at #15, didn't want him because he was "slow". He wasn't the "fast", "explosive", "big play" back that they think Miami needed. Well, neither is Daniel Thomas.

If you're going to take a 4.6 running back, at least take the best one in the draft when he's sitting right there for you to take him. I'd rather have seen them spend the 15th pick on Ingram, rather than trading up and basically pissing away draft picks for Daniel Thomas.

They could've used those picks to address the offensive line, as really good prospects were available all throughout those rounds.


Furthermore, there's no excuse for passing up a legitimate quarterback prospect several times if you indeed do "like him and think he's going to be a really good quarterback".... as Ireland suggested.

Their strategy and plan of attack in this draft was absurd, regardless of the players they selected. Miami just didn't have a good feel for this draft at all.

 

[Spesh]

Saying that this is how I broke it down and it made logical sense to me and if I were in their shoes you would have to consider it.

1. Job situation (they have to win now) so A. A rookie QB is very doubtful to make that happen and B the high draft pick used on the rookie QB might be used elsewhere on the offense to allow the winning to happen sooner rather than later.

.....Too bad they were drafting to save their jobs which swayed their judgement. I tend to beleive that they really saw what you saw in Mallett which is why I believe they did try to draft back up into the 3rd round to grab the guy.....

I'll ignore the other points and focus on this one. How is this a comforting thing? Why is everyone cool with the fact that our front office is more interested in saving their own ***** then improving our team?

If they had been more willing to take chances in the past to improve our team, they might not be in this position in the first place. If they hadn't been so concerned with saving their job, that job might not be in jeopardy now. Its this sort of self-destructive short sightedness that got them into this situation. To have any success in the future, this regime cannot be allowed to keep doing this.

As well, if you feel Ryan Mallett has the talent to justify taking him in the third round, then he also has enough talent to justify taking in the second round. There is no in between for quarterbacks.

 

[Spesh]

The only exception would be pending free agents you don't expect back. But guys like Tyler Thigpen, you placed a high RFA tag on him, so you probably expect him back. If you think that's chancy, then fine...don't give him a playbook. But Mike Pouncey at the very least should have received a playbook before the administrative stay was granted on Friday preventing guys like Daniel Thomas, Edmond Gates and Charles Clay from getting theirs. Other players elsewhere are getting their playbooks the night they were drafted. I hear Torrey Smith has his playbook. He was drafted on Day 2 when the administrative stay was already granted. If they can get away with it, so can we.

I think the reality of what Tony Sparano was saying is...the playbook hasn't even been finalized yet. New offensive coordinator, he's going to want to bring his elements of the playbook in and they have to marry them with Tony Sparano's concepts and any holdover stuff they want to keep in just because that's what the players know...and they also want to have some idea of what kind of players they will have on offense, and they could have a new QB, new RBs, etc...there's a lot in flux.

Even if that's the case, I don't buy it. You have to anticipate and you have to have more clear ideas of what you're doing.

If that is the case then its almost to disheartening to consider. We hired Brian Daboll in mid-January. They had 5 months to get it together.

We haven't had free agency. We haven't had trades. We haven't had workouts. We have only had the draft and, lets face it, we did nothing to surprising or out of character there. This was, without a doubt, the easiest offseason to take care of problems like this, there was simply nothing else happening! So why wasn't this taken care of?

I believe it was Mr. Magoo who said it in the main thread concerning this topic: Tony Sparano would not accept this excuse from one of his players. Why should he be able to get away with a blunder this bad?

 

[finsfanjay13]

Let me chime in here for a second..


I think most people already knew these guys were going to draft based on what gave them the best chance to squeak out another year of cashing a paycheck... that's no surprise.

I like most of the players Miami drafted, I think they got some really good football players and addressed critical needs. However, I don't agree with where or how they chose to address them the first 2 days of the draft.

Everyone that didn't want Mark Ingram at #15, didn't want him because he was "slow". He wasn't the "fast", "explosive", "big play" back that they think Miami needed. Well, neither is Daniel Thomas.

If you're going to take a 4.6 running back, at least take the best one in the draft when he's sitting right there for you to take him. I'd rather have seen them spend the 15th pick on Ingram, rather than trading up and basically pissing away draft picks for Daniel Thomas.

They could've used those picks to address the offensive line, as really good prospects were available all throughout those rounds.


Furthermore, there's no excuse for passing up a legitimate quarterback prospect several times if you indeed do "like him and think he's going to be a really good quarterback".... as Ireland suggested.

Their strategy and plan of attack in this draft was absurd, regardless of the players they selected. Miami just didn't have a good feel for this draft at all.

I disagree on some parts. Let me preface this by saying I preferred the Pouncey pick over Ingram. However, I did not prefer the Pouncey pick over Amukamara. Yes, it was position of need over luxury, but when you have a widely regarded top-10 player dropping to #15, you select him.

I'm well aware of the fact that when you're drafting at #15, it's because you have glaring holes on your team, and the "luxury" of taking BPA isn't as accepted as if you're drafting in the twenties. However, that doesn't change my opinion.

Now, in regards of "no excuse for passing up a legitimate quarterback", I'm of the belief the Dolphins drafted in a way that I highlighted months ago: build around a quarterback, regardless of who it is. I'm not a Henne fan, but I liked this draft (overall, but not certain individual picks) because no matter who the quarterback is moving forward, the team is better overall.

They got a potential all-pro guard, a solid RB, a speed demon wide receiver, and a versatile jack-of-all-trades TE/H-Back/FB. This gives them *zero* excuses for Henne this year. If Henne doesn't improve, it is nobody's fault but his own. This front office is in "win now" mode, and their draft reflected that.