Full AFC East Grades (Plus NY Giants) | Page 10 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Full AFC East Grades (Plus NY Giants)

More on the present/future picks thing because I find this fascinating. There's this perception that New England keeps shifting everything forward and never actually using their picks.

That's not true. They're just ensuring that they always get a premium.

The NFL has allotted the Patriots 4076.7 "chart points" worth of value over the last three Drafts. They've ended up using 6733.1 points worth of value. That's 65% more value than the NFL gave them. They got 54% more value in 2009, 45% more value in 2010 and 103% more value in 2011.

And yet they still walk into the 2012 Draft owning two 1st round picks and two 2nd round picks.
 
maybe but there's been an awful lot of smoke...and this kid did fall like a stone despite 1st round talents all day long

I do believe there's an awful lot of history there, a lot of smoke and a lot of implications, etc...hanging out with the wrong people, being involved in the wrong situation, etc.

I just don't believe the NFP's reports on this matter because they've shown themselves to consistently only report one side of the story on Ryan Mallett, and I do mean consistently, and they've also proven that they will throw out bad reports from bad sources without even bothering to fact check anything, simply because they're so quick to jump at anything that suggests Ryan Mallett = Bad.
 
More on the present/future picks thing because I find this fascinating. There's this perception that New England keeps shifting everything forward and never actually using their picks.

That's not true. They're just ensuring that they always get a premium.

The NFL has allotted the Patriots 4076.7 "chart points" worth of value over the last three Drafts. They've ended up using 6733.1 points worth of value. That's 65% more value than the NFL gave them. They got 54% more value in 2009, 45% more value in 2010 and 103% more value in 2011.

And yet they still walk into the 2012 Draft owning two 1st round picks and two 2nd round picks.

I gotta ask how many points do the phins come out to over that same period?
 
Some of you guys are in denial about Mallet. I assure you that if Thomas sucks I will not be. I will own it and admit being wrong.

We all know that the Fins will add more backs as well. Once again, I hope for Devine to get a chance.
 
Some of you guys are in denial about Mallet. I assure you that if Thomas sucks I will not be. I will own it and admit being wrong.

We all know that the Fins will add more backs as well. Once again, I hope for Devine to get a chance.

Daniel Thomas fell all the way to the bottom of the 2nd round. Own up to it. Admit you were wrong. Clearly Daniel Thomas sucks, otherwise he'd have not fallen to the very end of the 2nd round. Admit it. You were wrong.
 
Another sports-radio tidbit from this AM, Bernie Kosar, who has done some consulting for the Pats this year, theorized that a major reason NE took Mallett was to keep the Fins and Bills from getting him and upgrading their QBs on the cheap draft valuewise.....
 
Daniel Thomas fell all the way to the bottom of the 2nd round. Own up to it. Admit you were wrong. Clearly Daniel Thomas sucks, otherwise he'd have not fallen to the very end of the 2nd round. Admit it. You were wrong.

What did you think of the Jets picks after the Ellis selection?
 
Daniel Thomas fell all the way to the bottom of the 2nd round. Own up to it. Admit you were wrong. Clearly Daniel Thomas sucks, otherwise he'd have not fallen to the very end of the 2nd round. Admit it. You were wrong.

What? Daniel Thomas doesn't suck :lol:

Oh wait....I see what you did
 
my homerism? MY HOMERISM? Here's the thing. Look at my posts, I warmed up to Mallett at the end, but I have been saying for AGES that Mallett has attitude problems. Being a Michigan fan, and seeing and knowing things about his time at Michigan I said Mallett had all the tools, but something was up. He was HATED by his teammates at Michigan. Henne and Hart were 2 of the only guys who could stand him. He was leaving no matter who the coach was. I said I saw a lot of potential in him as a freshmen at Michigan. I'e said time and time again, that seeing him at Arkansas something just didn't seem right. He didn't really develop how I thought he would. I heard the cocaine rumors.

And don't call me a homer. Yeah I'm optimistic, but I try to keep an impartial look on things. I love CK, I respect what he does. If I didn't why would I ask him to do a radio interview with me for school? Why would I constantly on my radio show site Chris Kaufman and Universal Draft as a source. I think CK does a helluva lot when it comes to analyzing the draft, and I feel sometimes he does not get the credit he deserves.

That being said, I stay to my opinion. Okay, you want to say the pick is graded D- not on Daniel Thomas but on passing Ryan Mallett. Here is the question I have for you. Why are the Pats the only team willing to take a risk on Mallett? Why is it that teams that NEED QBs like Minny, Tennessee, Cincy, and San Fran were willing to take on projects who might have to start right away and should be nowhere near the starting lineup over Mallett? THe Pats can draft Mallett and afford to let him sit for 3-4 years when he will be 26-27 and maybe he will be ready. WE DO NOT.

As I said in other threads. We hit a lot of needs in this draft with guys who should contribute. I don't look at the draft on who we pass up, I look at a successful draft on who can help make us better right away.

I love CK, but his word is not the law for me. And to call me a homer while people, yourself included, are calling our draft a failure because we didn't draft Mallett instead of basing their grades on who we draft, only support my opinion

So again, hate my optimism, but atleast I am willing to GIVE these players a shot rather than openly root for them to fail like some people on this forum (NOT a shot at you or CK, or anybody in particular, but there are those here and they know who they are).

So you warmed up to Mallett until we didnt draft him, then he sucks and his attitude is garbage and you really had it right the first time and the fact that every other team passed on him just validates your opinion. Gotcha. I mean this in a very literal way: Mallett could rape women and murder animals...and still be a successful NFL quarterback. But all of this is besides the point.

Ck simply posted his opinion. Is it going to be influenced by us missing on a fine prospect we could have gotten for the cheap? Sure. But to go around declaring "your just biased against this player because we didnt draft the guy you wanted!" Thats crap. People can seperate there own homerism on a subject and post an objective opinion on the matter. The fact that Ck was just repeating on opinion that he had previous posted weeks and months ago is the most amusing thing in this debate. There is a very real trail of evidence. But the first thing you posted was "hey...your letting your emotions cloud your opinion!".
Another thing, looking past the glaring "who cares" if he is letting his emotions show in a thread about his personal opinion, as i said before: its both. You can dislike a player and you can dislike passing on another player. It doesn't need to be one or the other. Personally, i am not excited about Daniel Thomas. He brings nothing new to the table. We already had a running back who couldnt take it home. We already had a running back who didn't have the best burst. We already had a running back with a huge flaw. In Ronnie's case, it was injuries. In Daniel Thomas's case, he fumbles the ball. Why in gods name cant someone(or everyone) feel thats not a great thing? There are very legitimate reasons why someone can grade Daniel Thomas poorly. He did almost fall to the third round(ironic that its cool for Thomas to fall, but for Mallett its validation for reasons to hate him). And none of those reasons involve Ryan Mallett. I sat here and listed no less than 4 reasons why i disliked the Daniel Thomas pick and your go to is still "you hate him because we didnt draft Ryan!". I didnt even mention him in that entire paragraph.

But hey, ill answer your question: Ryan Mallett dropped because of supposed off the field concerns. Multiple NFL executives have commented on it after the draft:

Besides a public intoxication charge in 2009 at Arkansas, Mallett was rumored to have used drugs in college. Two personnel executives with teams looking for a quarterback said that in predraft interviews Mallett admitted to only using marijuana.
“We didn’t believe him,’’ one of the executives said. The other hinted as much.
There are no concerns about Mallett’s love of football. When he’s in the building, at practice and on game day, the son of a high school coach is all in.
It’s the other hours that concerned teams.
“Things just aren’t right with him,’’ one NFL executive said. “Has the drugs and alcohol stuff. He can be a hothead. Carries himself like the 6-7 Eminem. He’s just a different dude. Maybe they can keep him in check. They can take that risk. We can’t.’’
That’s why Mallett lasted until the 74th pick, where the Patriots hope they struck gold.

http://articles.boston.com/2011-04-30/sports/29491385_1_ryan-mallett-patriots-hope-nfl-executive

As Mallett has never failed a drug test, he obviously has his "concerns" under some level of control. And guess what, heres a shocking secret that might blow peoples mind: The Miami Dolphins DO have time to develop Ryan Mallett. Tony Sparano and Jeff Ireland might not. But the Dolphins are bigger then Tony Sparano. The team is bigger then Jeff Ireland. If it was in the best interest of the team then you pull the trigger. Jacksonville did it with Blaine Gabbert, and there coaching staff is about to start collecting boxes. Instead, we have a front office who has shown they will look out for themselves over building a winner. And somehow, thats a good thing.

We are not the 2008 Miami Dolphins anymore. Our team is rebuilt. Our "OMG GLARING NEEDS" were laughable. We had someone who could have played center, we wrote up his contract with that possibility in mind. We no longer need to scramble for bodies. We no longer need our rookies to start immediately. We no longer need to be scared stiff if we bust on a player. Honest to god, we really only had 1 positional need that required a high round draft pick to get a player of good quality: Quarterback.
But wait, lets exam our other "OMG OUR TEAM WILL SUCK IF WE DONT FILL THESE NEEDS RIGHT NOW" positions. Running backs are so easy to fill its a joke. 3 of the more popular running backs last season were Peyton Hillis, LeGarrette Clount, and Arian Foster. Combined, a single 7th round pick was used on all 3 of them. The Denver Broncos had to send the Browns a 6th round pick(and another conditional pick) to trade him away. Let me repeat, the team trading Hillis away gave the team receiving him draft picks on top of the player. Guards and centers are almost never taken high, there is a reason for that: they can be found elsewhere. The value for that position just isn't there. Mike Pouncey is not as good a prospect as Nick Mangold(29th overall) or Maurkice Pouncey(18th) or Steve Hutchinson(17th), therefor it wasn't a great pick based on his value.

Between value, laughable needs, our team being rebuilt, our stated goals for our offense, and the players own flaws: they can get bad grades. And look at that, none of those reasons included Ryan Mallett. But if you pass on good players to pick bad ones, that can also lower your grade depending on who you ask. Of everyone involved, you are the one that seems to obsessing over passing on Ryan Mallett. For you keep throwing accusations of "if you dont like him its only because we passed on Mallett".
 
Come on, Brady will be nowhere near done in three years. Mallett will disappear into the void for a while and then Bellicheck will get a 2nd rounder for him based solely on his preseason playing time. Amazing.

That'd be terrible value for the Patriots if they only got a 2nd rounder for him in 3 years. A pick in this draft is worth one round higher value in the following year, so since the Pats took Mallett with a 3rd this year, that pick would hypothetically be worth a negative first round pick in 3 years.
 
Two things are happening that I sense:

1. People that didn't like Ryan Mallett all along are emboldened by the fact that Miami didn't take him and that he fell to the Patriots' willing arms, and so they want to speak up and gloat about it as if they've been "proven" correct even though nothing will have been "proven" until years down the road.

2. People that were convinced into liking Ryan Mallett in part by my opinion but also by the mass groundswell of public sentiment in Miami toward him, feel really sore over the whole thing and burned for liking Ryan Mallett, and so they just don't want to hear opinions that continue to insist that Mallett is good.

If I can appeal to peoples' sense of logic for a moment and not their emotionalism, I would simply ask them, what kind of analyst would I be if I was such a weathervane that the mere fact that the Miami Dolphins passed on a guy, or the mere fact that the Miami Dolphins took someone, made me change opinions on these players that have been months in forming? You can say the entire NFL doubts a certain guy because they didn't take him until a certain point in the Draft, but then doesn't that also apply to the universally-loved and heralded draft pick we got in the 4th round, Edmond Gates of Abilene Christian? Nearly every team in the NFL passed on him three times. You don't see a ton of people bringing THAT one up, do you? Or what about Daniel Thomas, who is now suddenly a "premier back" even though nearly every team in the NFL passed on him twice (about the same number of times they passed on Ryan Mallett)?

You don't see any shortage of acceptance for opinions saying that Daniel Thomas or Edmond Gates are "steals" do you? No. But continued high opinions of Ryan Mallett are not tolerated. Why?

Simple answer: emotionalism.
 
I think Fin fans are so burnt by every bad decision the last 15 years (which seems like 90% of all decisions) that we get pretty emotional about every new one.
 
The newest one of course being that the Dolphins were so unprepared for Judge Nelson to lift the lockout that they weren't able to hand out playbooks to their players before the 8th Circuit granted their administrative stay.
 
I say wait 3 years and see how it plays out. They can all be great and they can all suck. I was furious when they passed on Mallett but I was also furious when they passed on Quinn and look how that turned out. I think Mallett will be a good to great started when he gets his chance but I do feel that the Pats were 1. keeping him from the bills and fish & 2. looking for us to trade up for him when they leaked word that they were taking him. You never know who they are looking at and all of a sudden Lombardi knows it's coming? Just not their MO. I mean we can't keep bitching about who we passed on because the list is neverending. Let's ***** about passing on Rodgers before an unproven player at least.

And CK, I agree about the value of the picks and the movement for the Pats but I'm happy they keep taking questionable cbs and not going for the homerun. Let them keep doing it until Brady retires. It will be PAINFUL if they trade a 1st or 2nd next yr for a veteran this offseason. Probably as painful if they sign Brady Quinn as a FA, which I think is gonna happen. SMH
 
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