Full AFC East Grades (Plus NY Giants)

[Aqua and Orange]

[/B]
On the plus side, I have WAY more confidence in Bill Cowher's regime in being able to develop QB's than this current one, so maybe it was better we didn't take Mallett.

Great, great point.

I've read hundreds of posts in the past three days and this is the only one that really made me feel curiously optimistic about us not taking a QB.

A new regime is not going to want to inherit the old regime's garbage, so if this squad wants to be stubborn and cross their fingers and pray to the heavens Henne works, so be it. It'll just make it easier to get a highly drafted QB next year.

 

[Breed]

Great, great point.

I've read hundreds of posts in the past three days and this is the only one that really made me feel curiously optimistic about us not taking a QB.

A new regime is not going to want to inherit the old regime's garbage, so if this squad wants to be stubborn and cross their fingers and pray to the heavens Henne works, so be it. It'll just make it easier to get a highly drafted QB next year.

That's assuming the front office doesn't trade for a QB like Kolb or Palmer. I don't think either of those quarterbacks would cost a 1st round pick, but it's a good bet that the pick given up would make it a lot harder to trade up in order to land a franchise QB.

 

[finomenal]

I think far too many people are making far too big a deal of this. I provided grades for the draft picks. Disagree with them if you will. But to start attacking the basis of the grades as if I'm somehow biased and that these grades are not based on the same opinions and research I've been espousing for months, is cheap. What people seem to want is for me to find some technical and obscure way, fraught with conditions and exclusions, to tell them what they want to hear...that the Dolphins made awesome picks and that they're going to get to the Super Bowl with them. Don't look for that here. I gave my honest grades and you can feel free to disagree with them if you like. But I'm not forcing my opinion down anyone's throat and I think it's misguided to pretend like I am. I've explained my grades, what goes into them, the evaluation of the player, what was available, the philosophy behind the pick and the fit. I've made all that pretty clear. If some want to take a blind eye to it all or just disregard it because you think it's all about one player, that's fine but it's a pretty dumb way of going about things if you ask me. Disagreeing with my evaluations is one thing, but total dismissal out of hand on that basis is just not intelligent and speaks to people who only want to hear what they want to hear.

I know I speak for a lot of others here when I say that we really appreciate the work that you do. I look forward to your post draft evaluations. There's really no need to explain that you're not being biased either. Those of us who actually take the time to read the evaluations understand the thinking behind the grades. It's the ones who just breeze over, look at the grade, take a swig of the aqua & orange koolaid and say you're biased. Most of us aren't shortsighted, and I've long given up even responding to people who post something negative when you can tell they haven't even read what you typed.

 

[finomenal]

Evidently sources in Miami have told Armando Salguero that they tried hard to trade back into the 3rd round ahead of New England to get Mallett. They said they liked him and they think he's going to be a good quarterback.

Yes, I'm serious.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...eportedly-tried-to-tried-up-for-ryan-mallett/

With picks to use from now until 2014, they couldn't trade up??? Riiiight...I wish they would just fire the "bifecta" right now. I would say "unbelievable", but sadly, this is par for the course. Ridiculous!!! No, let's not draft a QB. Let's draft a RB, because as we all know, a RB is very hard to find. QBs? Not so much.

 

[finomenal]

That's the reality and that's why I think you see a C.Y.A. statement coming out of the Dolphins.

I tell you what, among the 6 teams that took different QBs above Mallett, and the multiple teams that made the decision not to take one at all...they'd have much rather seen Oakland move up and take him than New England. I think suddenly everyone realizes all this guy has to do to raise his stock significantly is play well in the preseason, and keep his nose clean, and his mouth shut. That's it. He survives in New England for 2 or 3 years, he's being traded for a 1st or 2nd rounder.

That's a terrible C.Y.A. statement IMHO. They had a chance to take him in the 2nd.

 

[ckparrothead]

ck, how can you give the kendricks pick an A+ when he is facing charges that could have him in jail for the next 20 years if convicted?

Because I firmly believe he isn't going to see a day in jail.

 

[RealDriscoll]

I guess my confusion is how can you give the Dolphins such low grades when they filled two of the biggest needs on their team with Top-50 prospects? Sure we all wnated Ryan Mallett and had the Dolphins been able to move into Round 3 to select Mallett than we are talking maybe the best draft we have had in well over a decade. You gave the Dolphins a C- for the Mike Pouncey pick but later state he is a better Center than his brother Maurkice who made the Pro Bowl in his ROOKIE season. Than to say their trade with Washington was a B+, you like Daniel Thomas but because Ryan Mallett was on the board you gave the Dolphins a D-. I am havng trouble following your logic on this one.

Pouncey isntantly becomes our best interior offensive linemen and gives us strength in the middle that Jake Grove failed to bring after that big contract we gave him. In Daniel thomas you having a Running Back capable of hitting the 1,000 yard mark every season and a back that has a nose for the end-zone. Ronnie Brown only hit the 1,000 yard mark ONE time in his career as a Dolphin.

The only thing the Dolphins missed in this draft was a Quarterback and IMO Cam Newton, Blaine Gabbert, and Ryan Mallett were the only upgrades to Henne. I'd pass on Locker and Ponder all day long with no problem.

 

[Aqua and Orange]

That's assuming the front office doesn't trade for a QB like Kolb or Palmer. I don't think either of those quarterbacks would cost a 1st round pick, but it's a good bet that the pick given up would make it a lot harder to trade up in order to land a franchise QB.

You are correct. This very well could get worse before it gets better.

 

[ckparrothead]

I guess my confusion is how can you give the Dolphins such low grades when they filled two of the biggest needs on their team with Top-50 prospects?

Because one of them wasn't a top 50 prospect and the other was taken at #15 even though I had a 1st-2nd round grade on him, and had other solid 1st round grade players available. Hope that clears everything up.

You gave the Dolphins a C- for the Mike Pouncey pick but later state he is a better Center than his brother Maurkice who made the Pro Bowl in his ROOKIE season.

I said I regard Mike as a better PROSPECT than I regarded Maurkice. Obviously Maurkice played better than I expected.

Than to say their trade with Washington was a B+, you like Daniel Thomas but because Ryan Mallett was on the board you gave the Dolphins a D-. I am havng trouble following your logic on this one.

The TERMS of the trade up with Washington were good. I made it very CLEAR that I evaluated the trade totally separately. It's simple, look at the terms of the trade, and look at the quality of players that went between picks #62 and #78, versus the quality of players that would have been available at #79. That trade deserves the B+.

Daniel Thomas is a decent player. I wanted to make that clear. He's not, for instance, a Stevan Ridley...who I didn't like at all as a player. But was Daniel Thomas the 4th best running back in the Draft? No. Was Daniel Thomas a 2nd rounder to me? No. Were there better running backs available? Yes. Were there better players available at other positions, including Mallett? Yes. That is what the grade is based on...using a high caliber resource on a player that is not "the" answer at tailback, when you could easily have players that are nearly as good or even better later in the Draft.

Pouncey isntantly becomes our best interior offensive linemen and gives us strength in the middle that Jake Grove failed to bring after that big contract we gave him. In Daniel thomas you having a Running Back capable of hitting the 1,000 yard mark every season and a back that has a nose for the end-zone. Ronnie Brown only hit the 1,000 yard mark ONE time in his career as a Dolphin.

If you believe Daniel Thomas will do what you say, hurray for you. I totally disagree.

The only thing the Dolphins missed in this draft was a Quarterback and IMO Cam Newton, Blaine Gabbert, and Ryan Mallett were the only upgrades to Henne. I'd pass on Locker and Ponder all day long with no problem.

Ponder would have also been an upgrade to Henne, arguably Kaepernick and Yates as well.

 

[phintim]

CK gave out the grades based on the research he did and what he believes which I have no problem with.
There are other points to consider here and number one is all 32 clubs disagreed with his research that Mallet was a top tier QB and worthy of being picked in the first round. Time will tell on that one but the odds are against that currently when you consider 32 teams with full time scouting departments decided to wait until at least the 3rd round to draft Mallett. Currently we know of only 2 teams the Pats and Dolphins who thought Mallet was 3rd round material. Not saying CK is wrong but those are the current facts and the future facts may prove all 32 teams that they were wrong and CK was correct but in the meanwhile we have to wait.

Like many other posters I really enjoy reading CK observations and make them a priority when visiting fin heaven.

Where I differ with CK and others on this subject is I understand Irelands logic and the reasoning in this years draft and think he did a pretty good job based on what we needed to improve our offense in order for our Quarterback position to suceed. At the end of last year there was a consensus that the dolphins running back position was getting old, we needed a speedy wide out to stretch the field and our interior OL had fallen apart. Yes Henne was an issue that has to be dealt with.

As far as this draft on offense all needs were addressed except QB which is where I could agree with Irelands logic more than CK's unless Mallet was that once in a lifetime type QB which all the other teams in the NFL draft this weekend agreed he was not. "If" these first 3-4 picks turn out well in this draft that will allow any QB for the Dolphins a greater chance of success wether it be Henne and or a Mallett if he had been drafted this year.

There is that old saying don't get the cart in front of the horse. By addressing our needs first in this years draft we are now in a much better position to bring in any QB and give that guy the opportunity to suceed. If Blaine G from Missouri was available in this years draft Miami would have drafted him as he represented that "possible" once in a lifetime type QB that was worthy of the gamble. That choice would have led to basically rearranging their entire draft stragedy of beefing up the offense first in the draft and they would have to hope later they could prop it up theri young QB somehow in free agency with offensive help he needed. I can certainly believe also that after addressing the OL and running back position that Irland was willing to trade up for Mallet in the 3rd round because at that point with those weapons on board he was a worthy gamble. We would have probably had not drafted Gates this year along with loosing another 2nd round pick next year but I could see them doing that.

What concerns me is this need everyone feels for throwing Ireland under the bus. The guy has done a really decent job better than anyone in the phins front office in years and years in the drafting department except Jimmy Johnson. I am talking about going all the way back in many of the Shula years. We may need a new head coach (which Ireland and Ross went looking for last year) and a new QB which he just admitted he attempted to trade up to get one. Everyone is kicking the guy in the gut for saying that as some sort of white flag on his part. Why can't we beleive the guy was being truthful, he could have just as easily been better off by saying nothing about Mallett which if he had done so Mallett would have been written off much sooner as a QB that many teams just did not want and the Pats were willing to gamble on because they have upteen draft picks and Brady so there is much less of a investment.

As far as this clamoring for Cower take notice that Pittsburg is doing quite well without him these days probably even better. No doubt the coach makes a difference on a team but the front office is more important IMO. When was the last time we won the superbowls. It was way back when we had a pretty good front office but those guys moved on to the Washington Redskins. Shula stayed and we were still good but next thing you know Washington was winning the superbowls.

Look at our young team and the talent we have right now its right up there. Ireland needs to stay around and like you I am hoping he learns to trade down and we end up like the Pats some day but in the mean while Ireland is drafting like the other 31 teams 1 pick per round and has done a pretty good job so far.

Call me a homer if you like and I can see needed improvement but we have been through a lot of big name coaches these past 10 plus years and all I have seen is a bunch of rebuilding projects and a cloud of dust when they left town along with 50/50 records. No thanks for Bill Cower unless they keep Ireland.

 

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

I have no idea if Jamie Dukes is a good analyst or not, but he was on South Florida radio this AM absolutely ripping the Fins for not taking Mallett.

 

[ckparrothead]

He's not a good analyst but in this case he seems to be on the money.

 

[sn9ke.eyes]

In Daniel thomas you having a Running Back capable of hitting the 1,000 yard mark every season and a back that has a nose for the end-zone. Ronnie Brown only hit the 1,000 yard mark ONE time in his career as a Dolphin.

Driscoll I agree with most of what you said, but this doesn't make any sense. Ronnie Brown when drafted was capable of 1000 yards every season, he just didn't do it, for several reasons. Daniel Thomas is capable or 1000 yards every season, but there's no guarantee there either. You are trying to compare Ronnie Brown's career vs. Daniel Thomas's promise.

 

[SammySmif]

What constitutes research anymore? Who actually watched Thomas play games live and unbiased? I saw this guy play and had no idea who he was, and had to go look him up. He stuck out to me as a serious stud. Basically carried the K State offense in an area of the country where running the football is king, and the Dlines and Olines are giants. I can't wait to watch this guy run behind Long, it is going to be a thing of beauty.

Now I pray that the Fins sign Noel Devine once this lockout is over. He will be a great guy to take a risk on in camp. If the Fins do get Reggie bush or Deangelo Williams, Devine could push them in camp. But honestly, Devine has succeeded at every level of football, and even though his size is in question, he could be a home run threat out of the backfield for us.

I also love Clay. We can line up in the I spread with Bess in the slot..motion him to TE and give teams some headaches.

These were all very solid picks. I am not sure about the last one..but I think Ireland has made up for the past Parcell's drafts. I can't believe I am saying that, but I think BP just lost his mojo when he drafted Pat White.

Also very excited to see last year's #1 finally gets to hit the field as well. The Fins D should easily be top 5, and now we just need to address the QB position.

 

[ckparrothead]

To get back to something I harped on in my initial post....let's talk about the future/present value of draft picks.

How many of you believe it's perfectly OK to trade a future 1st for a present 2nd...long as you really like the player you end up taking in the 2nd?

Let's pretend that this belief, which seems to be a commonly held one in the NFL...is generally accepted to where a team trying to sell off one of their picks will find no problems getting a pick one round higher in a future year.

So in 2012 you're sitting there with your 7 picks. You decide heck, I'm gonna use my 1st rounder, but sell the rest for future picks. Then in 2013 you're sitting there with all these picks, you use both of your 1st rounders and you say heck, I'm gonna do the same thing again.

By 2018 you will be picking seven players in the 1st round, and will continue to do so every single year so long as other teams continue to be willing to value a present pick as worth a pick a round higher in the future.

Imagine that. Every year, seven 1st rounders.