Gase's Team

[SF Dolphin Fan]

So two of our better players now have shown a disrespectful attitude towards our coach/coaches. Two looks like a trend, why don't we have coaches who get players in line? Where is the leadership? You go to the Patriots and they have leadership in the locker room, and with the coaches. Their top players shut up and play and buy into the Patriot way. Whats going on with the Dolphins that they lack leadership weather it be in locker room with the players or with coaches to put the younger players in their place and show them the way.

That could definitely be the case. I mean look at Ajayi in Philly. He had a complementary role and succeeded there. Why couldn't Gase and the coaching staff get the same out of him in Miami?

I do think you have to give the head coach some leeway, but Gase is starting to lose me a bit. When he said players weren't learning his system that was a huge red flag to me. We are talking about year two in the offense. Hopefully, Gase turns it around. His game plan against NE was a thing of beauty so there's that.

 

[royalshank]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'alpha personalities'. Do you mean players that lead by example, take and handle criticism, study tape and the playbook, lead in the locker room; players who demands adjustments by the other team; players who have good stats;?

The info from trusted FH sources (over in VIP) suggest Landry was strictly the third kind of alpha. That's not to say having good stats, which suggests good play is a bad thing. But then the question becomes at what price? That's both the contract AND locker room costs.

I don’t pretend to know the dynamics inside the building or anything like that. I only know what I saw at times - Jay and Jarvis expressing frustration - and now they are gone. All I’m saying is that’s what Philbin would have done - dump them. Though my guess is Adam and these guys have had hard conversations while it seemed Philbin would just avoid conflict. $16mil was too much but why did we allow ourselves to get into this situation in the first place? That bugs me even more.

 

[royalshank]

There's a big difference between being an "alpha" and not doing the work off the field, learning the playbook, etc.

Do we know this is true or speculation? He sure knew how to get open faster than anyone else in this offense - for not studying that’s pretty impressive or perhaps it suggests the other pass catchers are morons? Landry didn’t call the plays - he racked up all of those catches by being a split second quicker to find a seam than anyone else. Not his fault he caught 400 balls in 4 years. They could have used him differently - great all around football player, a bit of an asshat / immature but then where was the mentoring / veteran leadership?

 

[royalshank]

That could definitely be the case. I mean look at Ajayi in Philly. He had a complementary role and succeeded there. Why couldn't Gase and the coaching staff get the same out of him in Miami?

I do think you have to give the head coach some leeway, but Gase is starting to lose me a bit. When he said players weren't learning his system that was a huge red flag to me. We are talking about year two in the offense. Hopefully, Gase turns it around. His game plan against NE was a thing of beauty so there's that.

I kinda feel the same way right now. I mean, it’s not quantum physics.

 

[pacresjt]

Bingo. Gase won me over in 2016 after that horrid start but now I don’t know anymore. His approach to dealing with alpha personalities is beginning to resemble Philbin’s. Getting very concerned.

So let me get this straight, when he wins he’s good, when we have a bump I. The road year two.... sounds about the sentiment of 50% of the board. Let the guys do his thing and make a decision at the end of his contract.

 

[Laser13]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'alpha personalities'. Do you mean players that lead by example, take and handle criticism, study tape and the playbook, lead in the locker room; players who demands adjustments by the other team; players who have good stats;?

The info from trusted FH sources (over in VIP) suggest Landry was strictly the third kind of alpha. That's not to say having good stats, which suggests good play is a bad thing. But then the question becomes at what price? That's both the contract AND locker room costs.

You mean players like Mike Pouncey? The same guy that Gase has continually said is one of their leaders, but doesn’t always practice because of a degenerative hip. Treated gently like a fabergé egg. The same guy that whiffs on blocks and had a lot of costly penalties last year?

Surely, you have to see the humor in the lip service and spin doctoring that takes place - depending on which the way winds blows or the mood strikes Gase on occasion.

 

[fin415]

You mean players like Mike Pouncey? The same guy that Gase has continually said is one of their leaders, but doesn’t always practice because of a degenerative hip. Treated gently like a fabergé egg. The same guy that whiffs on blocks and had a lot of costly penalties last year?

Surely, you have to see the humor in the lip service and spin doctoring that takes place - depending on which the way winds blows or the mood strikes Gase on occasion.

All I see is the same head games that every team and coach plays. Personally, I think it's all crap and rooted in 1950's and 1960's macho psych crap.

As for Pouncey, all we see is what happens on the field. The team sees what happens in the looker and tape room, they know if the player played hurt or not, they know who mentored or helped another player, and most importantly of all, they know what plays were called and what that player was supposed to do in each moment of the game.

Who knows why the team was defending Pouncey. I don't care. I don't want to see or know about the sausage making involved with trying to manage a bunch of (or soon to be) millionaires play a brutal and complicated game. I'm here out of some very, very weird loyalty to growing up in Florida and clinging to the Shula and later, the Shula and Marino legacy. Gase has more 2 years to show me why this should be his team. After that I'll either be happy, decide to root for the next coach, or spend my time in other ways.

 

[Laser13]

I think it goes beyond the typical head games and psychology. The underlying issue is that sometimes Gase is planting a flag on the wrong players, out of sheer stubbornness and pride. Pouncey being one of those.

I can relate to the nostalgia of the past, especially with Shula. At times, it seems like a century ago and I miss those days. That said, the present incarnation says and does many perplexing things that should be criticized and discussed amongst the fans.

 

[royalshank]

So let me get this straight, when he wins he’s good, when we have a bump I. The road year two.... sounds about the sentiment of 50% of the board. Let the guys do his thing and make a decision at the end of his contract.

I’m not saying that. He used Ajai and Landry really well in 2016 when we were getting good QB play. I feel like the frustration of having Cutler back there got to the players. Yes I’m speculating- my theory is the team begrudged his $10mil to play like **** and when they started losing some players expresssed their frustration in ways that were immature. Did you see the look on Landry’s face after Jay put that ball about 10 feet over his head and into the 5th row against the Bills? So instead of giving his best players a pass, he stubbornly backed his bad decision to bring Cutler in. I don’t know that there was a better option but the I do not think the players respected Jay and I think that cost Gase some respect from some of his better players. I would have rallied the team when RT went down and just rolled to 6-10 w Matt Moore - a guy the players respected. I think Cutler is a disease and it infected the Fins. And that’s on Gase. I don’t believe those guys would have acted like such jerks if Gase had built a “us vs the world” mantra w Moore or Fails or whoever. Adam has done some good things. Infecting the team w Jay Cutler was not one of them and I believe it wrecked the chemistry the team had / culture.

 

[Spiff]

You’re going to tell me that replacing Christensen with Loggains means coaches were held accountable?

How would you define "hold someone accountable"? Just because you don't like the new coach you cannot say that the previous one wasn't held accountable.

Do we know this is true or speculation? He sure knew how to get open faster than anyone else in this offense - for not studying that’s pretty impressive or perhaps it suggests the other pass catchers are morons?

You have probably read Chambers insight on this in VIP so I would say it's not speculation. Also, getting open doesn't mean he knows the playbook. He ran the wrong route on several occassions and that is the definition of NOT knowing the playbook.

 

[roy_miami]

I’m not saying that. He used Ajai and Landry really well in 2016 when we were getting good QB play. I feel like the frustration of having Cutler back there got to the players. Yes I’m speculating- my theory is the team begrudged his $10mil to play like **** and when they started losing some players expresssed their frustration in ways that were immature. Did you see the look on Landry’s face after Jay put that ball about 10 feet over his head and into the 5th row against the Bills? So instead of giving his best players a pass, he stubbornly backed his bad decision to bring Cutler in. I don’t know that there was a better option but the I do not think the players respected Jay and I think that cost Gase some respect from some of his better players. I would have rallied the team when RT went down and just rolled to 6-10 w Matt Moore - a guy the players respected. I think Cutler is a disease and it infected the Fins. And that’s on Gase. I don’t believe those guys would have acted like such jerks if Gase had built a “us vs the world” mantra w Moore or Fails or whoever. Adam has done some good things. Infecting the team w Jay Cutler was not one of them and I believe it wrecked the chemistry the team had / culture.

Plus some players probably felt like Moore deserved a fair opportunity to start. Signing Cutler and guaranteeing him the starting role is like giving Moore an open handed slap in the face in front of the entire team. You can get away with it but you better be right, or the players will quickly revolt.

 

[roy_miami]

How would you define "hold someone accountable"? Just because you don't like the new coach you cannot say that the previous one wasn't held accountable.


You have probably read Chambers insight on this in VIP so I would say it's not speculation. Also, getting open doesn't mean he knows the playbook. He ran the wrong route on several occassions and that is the definition of NOT knowing the playbook.

Imagine how many records he would hold and how much money he would be making if he were running the right routes. Twenty mill? THIRTY MILL!?!?!

And thats not even factoring in how bad Jay Cutler/the o-line was.

 

[Liphinphan]

Your point falls flat, buddy.[/QUOTE]
Oh how convenient, You don't mention the new RB's coach, the new DB's coach and the new DL coach...along with the two you mentioned. 5 new coaches in an off season. Your point, that fell short, was the players were being blamed without the coaches being held responsible. There is plenty of legitimate reasons to be upset with this team, people don't have to twist and contort themselves to find made up ones. That's the point I was trying to make concerning your invalid one

 

[Spiff]

Imagine how many records he would hold and how much money he would be making if he were running the right routes. Twenty mill? THIRTY MILL!?!?!

And thats not even factoring in how bad Jay Cutler/the o-line was.

So what you're saying is that you don't believe Landry ran a wrong route frequently? Or do I misread your post?

 

[Coach_Rob]

use to be a big fan of gase. he is rubbing me the wrong way with keeping below avg players and paying them way more than they deserve, and wanting and getting all these players that played for him in the past.