Good Coaches VS Bad Coaches

[Gladsadmad]

which falls right into my point, Wanny is not a good coach then. He decided what talent to bring in.

You won't get an arguement there, Wanny is a terrible GM :D

Thank goodness for Rick Speilman..until he screws up, that is! :tongue:

Now we'll see how good Wanny can be with someone else acquiring the players.

 

[rafael]

The Pats hardly had the talent the fins had when they won their first sb. The fins had the best talent then. Yet, the pats won the sb and the fins didn't? Yeah that's what a coach like BB can do, adjust.They were also the most injured team last year and what did they do? Adjust.

The the fins?

You can say the fins had a horible line, qb but who's fault is that? Wasn't Wanny in charge of drafting and hiring FA's?

You can say that Wanny didn't have a qb and yet the Pats didn't have a rb.


If you think having a winning season w/o a playoff appearance by your definition is "making it work" then I hope you keep Wanny.


As for the bills, see the bad coach list, You will see GW and Gilbride. Read and comprehend before you reply.

This thread is talking about coaching ability not personnel ability. Miami's/Wanny's failures have been in the personnel dept.

Having a QB and an OL are the most important factors. They matter on every play. You can get by with avg. talent in other areas if your OL and QB excel.

 

[Justasportsfan]

This thread is talking about coaching ability not personnel ability. Miami's/Wanny's failures have been in the personnel dept.

Having a QB and an OL are the most important factors. They matter on every play. You can get by with avg. talent in other areas if your OL and QB excel.

that's why I stated in my first post in this thread that it depends on what your definition of a good/bad coach is. My opinion is it's one's ability to win with the talent he has which BB and Tuna have done.

BTw, the Pats didn't have excellent OL and qb play when they won their first sb. Their OC adjusted and won using screen passes to make Brady look a lot better than he did back then. Antwain Smith was barely average too.

 

[Gladsadmad]

that's why I stated in my first post in this thread that it depends on what your definition of a good/bad coach is. My opinion is it's one's ability to win with the talent he has which BB and Tuna have done.

QUESTION 1..You say "ability to win with the talent he has". You do realize that Miami went 10-6, right? Are you saying that your definition of "ability to win with the talent he has"...means only a Super Bowl?

QUESTION 2..Do you think any coach could've taken Miami to a Superbowl title with a mediocre QB and a pathetic o-line?

 

[Ohio Fanatic]

Obviously, they were wrong. Just because some Dolphins fans thought Ray Lucas or Griese were great doesn't make it so.

Those players proved that they weren't that good by the way that they played. Therefore, they weren't that talented after all.

Bringing Griese into a system with a terrible offensive line was the mistake. When you give Griese time to throw (early in his career with Denver) he's no different than Kurt Warner, Kerry Collins... he can make the throws. See the San Diego game last year when there was no pass rush. But with crappy O-line, all three of these QB's suck. Even though I'm still a huge proponent of replacing Fiedler, he's not as bad as he looked with that O-line.

 

[Gladsadmad]

BTw, the Pats didn't have excellent OL and qb play when they won their first sb. Their OC adjusted and won using screen passes to make Brady look a lot better than he did back then.

I really beg to differ with this comment. You say not excellent QB play? Tom Brady threw 18 td's to only 12 int's in the regular season.

In the playoffs, Brady threw 97 passes and only 1 int....no matter how you cut it, that's excellent..(as much as I hate Brady).. :D

Meanwhile, Fiedler has 1 TD and 7 int's in his playoff games with Miami. Can you win a Superbowl with that? Or is that Wanny's fault too?

 

[Justasportsfan]

QUESTION 1..You say "ability to win with the talent he has". You do realize that Miami went 10-6, right? Are you saying that your definition of "ability to win with the talent he has"...means only a Super Bowl?

Win the division and sb which BB has done w/ lesser talent or making changes in the line-up if he had to, to win.

QUESTION 2..Do you think any coach could've taken Miami to a Superbowl title with a mediocre QB and a pathetic o-line?

Bellichick maybe? Like I said, Wanny chose the players mediocre . It's his call and he has to answer to that. He chose and annointed Fiedler and not beefing up the OL was his call. If he didn't have to foresight to see that this OL was in decline, what kind of coach is he then?

 

[Gladsadmad]

If he didn't have to foresight to see that this OL was in decline, what kind of coach is he then?

I really have to back to the whole GM thing. He's a bad GM..he's bad at choosing players to fit into his system, no doubt about it. Does that make him a bad coach? Maybe.

Bad GM..YES!
Bad Coach..this year we find out for sure.

 

[Gladsadmad]

Win the division and sb which BB has done w/ lesser talent or making changes in the line-up if he had to, to win.

I still think that having a potential Hall-Of-Fame QB helps alot. Alot more than you make it out to be.

Just imagine Tom Brady on the Dolphins..that's scary!

 

[Justasportsfan]

I really beg to differ with this comment. You say not excellent QB play? Tom Brady threw 18 td's to only 12 int's in the regular season.

In the playoffs, Brady threw 97 passes and only 1 int....no matter how you cut it, that's excellent..(as much as I hate Brady).. :D

Dumpoffs 5-10 yds for Brady. Once again, coaching genius. Remember Drew was their franchise qb and yet the coaches determined and realized that Brady would make the Pats a better team than Drew. Why hasn't Wanny been able to do the same? Was he not the "coach" the same time he was GM?


A GM will not hire/draft aplayer w/o a coaches input. Wanny had both powers.

Meanwhile, Fiedler has 1 TD and 7 int's in his playoff games with Miami. Can you win a Superbowl with that? Or is that Wanny's fault too?

Yes, Wanny's fault. He's constantly annointing Fiedler to be the qb. Was Brady not drafted in the 6th rd.? Why is it that Wanny couldn't draft a qb and turn him into a Brady instead he insists on Fiedler.

He assesed their talent and wasn't able to coach those talent into becoming a Brady.

 

[rafael]

I don't think you understand that being a GM and being a coach are two different duties. Just b/c one person had both duties and did one poorly it doesn't make him bad at both. One example would be Holmgren. He was considered a very good coach. Then he became a coach/GM. He has had mixed results. Does that mean that he forgot how to coach? Of course not. It just means that he hasn't had as much success as a coach/GM.

I also disagree about Brady. This guy makes great decisions. A QB that makes great decisions makes the coach look alot smarter. It was his excellent QB play that led NE to that first SB.

 

[Greatscott127]

Did wanny win with what he had ? yes. Having pioli as your personal guy helps alot you know. I seem to remember someone having a very poor time of it in clevland. but that could not have been bb or was it more on the palyers. Seems to me you like to twist everything to fit your personal pref. While your great personal man got the human statue and 2 good running backs, an oline that was worse then the phins. sorry wanny had his team in a pos to win all one game last season. That may not mean much to you but that is coaching. Change you say, why dont you beat the colts in a playoff game with fiedler and lamar smith. That is a scary back field...... for the home team to go into battle with that is. The phins lost 2 heart breakers to the pats last season, killed the boys on the road on turkey day. Wanny may not be bb but he has had miami in every game with the pats so far.

 

[Atila]

wanny doesnt help the fins win games. you can hardly say those wins are because of him. last season they had 8 of their starting 11 D players having done to the probowl....this season, the same number, you're telling me a defense with that much talent shouldnt be as good, if not better than the one the ravens had to win their SB? hell, our QB is argueably better than dilfer too, and RW is better right now than Jamal Lewis was back then.

so if wanny/RS cant win a SB under these conditions, i dont see how they can be considered good when other coaches and GM's can win with worse players and less talent

 

[Gladsadmad]

Remember Drew was their franchise qb and yet the coaches determined and realized that Brady would make the Pats a better team than Drew. Why hasn't Wanny been able to do the same? .

Why hasn't Wanny been able to do what?..exactly. Why hasn't Wanny picked up a future Hall-Of-Fame quarterback? Gee, I don't know...they don't exactly grow on trees.

Seriously, do you think it's that easy to acquire a star QB? And if you don't think that Brady is a star, then I'm sorry, you don't know much about football. The coach puts the player in the position to make the play, but the player still has to execute.

Oh..and by the way, Drew Bledsoe got hurt in week 2 of 2001..and Brady came in for good. So, that made the "determination" and "realization" much easier. Don't you think?

 

[Coral Reefer]

This is procisely what Wanny has done. He's tweat his style to what he has, we don't have a QB who can throw longer than 20 yards accurately, [/ QUOTE]


Wow, your always fighting the Fiedler battle telling everyone how great he is.
You cry about Jay on threads that aren't even about Jay just to bring up what a talent he is and how fans don't give him a chance ............. and YET you make a statement like the one above!

So you think a great QB can't throw longer than 20 yards accurately?
Pretty low standards you've set there for greatness!

At least I know now why you think Jay is so great.


You just gotta love the mentality! Mind boggling!