Help me Understand why DE Is such a big need.

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Chubby, Apr 27, 2017.

  1. Chubby

    Chubby SUPERFAN

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    I dont get it.. We are paying alot of money to Branch and Wake to be our starters... why is everyone wanting to waste a first round pic on a DE who will not be starting? If the plan is to draft Wakes eventual replacement then groom a 3-4th rounder. We need to hit hard in this draft this year if we want to compete and need G & OLB to fill 2 huge holes right now that we have no quality starters at.
     
  2. dolphintodd

    dolphintodd FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Without some youth at that position we will ran out of gas at the end of games quite often, we have nothing to rotate in.
     
  3. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott A True Fan

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    Wake is the only DE we have who is a better than above average pass rusher. He's also 35 years old when the season starts. William Hayes is 32 years old and on a one year deal. Andre Branch is in his "prime" but far from a blue chip player. He's a good third rotational DE, but not someone I want starting.

    We need someone to take over the reigns from Wake and push Branch out of the starting line up. I'm also certain they'll use Hayes inside quite a bit as well.
     
  4. Blake the great

    Blake the great A True Fan

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    [video=youtube;sLhVNtuwzQ0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLhVNtuwzQ0[/video]
     
  5. Chubby

    Chubby SUPERFAN

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    You dont waste a 1st rounder for rotation. We have 2 huge holes at G and OLB.
     
  6. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Because we have a 35 year old and a big pile of meh at the position?
     
  7. russianbear

    russianbear FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Blows my mind that people fail to realize our entire production within that position rests on a 35 year old superhuman.

    Behind QB, it's arguably the most important position in football.
     
  8. Chubby

    Chubby SUPERFAN

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    Thanks for your input!
     
  9. Chubby

    Chubby SUPERFAN

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    I agree, but our GM put all our money and into a 35 year old basket and an avg DE in Branch... We need to develop someone and bring in more depth yes... but we cant afford to waste a 1st rounder on it. I dont care how imporant DE is... Another ****ty year of guard LB play this year and it doenst matter who is at DE.
     
  10. Blake the great

    Blake the great A True Fan

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    Our best pass rusher is aging and we have no one else

    [video=youtube;ilcRS5eUpwk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilcRS5eUpwk[/video]
     
  11. greasyObnoxious

    greasyObnoxious I love lamp Finheaven VIP Donator

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    teams do.

    Shaq Lawson (2016 - Bills)
    Shane Rey (2015 - Broncos)
    Bud Dupree (2015 - Steelers)
    Dee Ford (2014 - Chiefs)
    Marcus Smith (2014 - Eagles)

    etc.

    if you want top-end pass-rushing tools, you have to draft them high. they usually don't make it to day 2.
     
  12. tfh_rules

    tfh_rules Rookie

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    DE isn't just about pass rushing. The DE sets the edge in the run game so your OLBs are free to make tackles.
    Our run defense is terrible. Everyone blames the linebackers, and much of that is deserved, but a big piece of it was the D line.
    If you can't stop the run, you can't beat good teams or win in the playoffs.

    You are right that we also have a huge need at Guard but the thinking is that it's easier to get a decent guard later in the draft. Everyone in the league covets DEs so they are harder to come by.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
     
  13. Chubby

    Chubby SUPERFAN

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    You can thank your GM for not having someone groomed at this point.
     
  14. VCU2000

    VCU2000 Well-Known Member

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    We aren't drafting for just next year. We are drafting for years down then road. We need a young impact player at DE. Maybe not in the first but in the top two rounds. Would be great to move Wake to a situational pass rusher and keep him fresh.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
     
  15. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Any DE we draft will start. Branch will be depth and rotated in, because having fresh pass rushers is vital. Further, you don't just draft for the immediate year. You are drafting for the future. This is one of the best DE drafts I've ever seen. OG and OLB? Not so much.

    It's weird that these basic things need to be explained repeatedly.
     
  16. Chubby

    Chubby SUPERFAN

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    Branch is getting starter money, he is either 1 starting or 2.we screwed up big time giving him that $$.
     
  17. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    The contract doesn't mean **** and it has no impact on anything.
     
  18. VBCheeseGrater

    VBCheeseGrater Not Quite A Shredder Finheaven VIP

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    I like your question because i was wondering the same thing at first, but with wake being as old as he is and no one besides Branch showing pass rushing talent (Hayes is supposed to be run stuffer), I started to see the light. I'd still rather see LB or even G addressed first, but if they take a DE at 22 OK I get it.
     
  19. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    If you're unsure about a rookie's snaps at DE, why would you then push for an OLB in the first?
     
  20. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    And DT will be just as important next year
     
  21. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Hopefully not. I still have hope for Phillips.
     
  22. fininpsl

    fininpsl A True Fan

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    It's a big need because it's the second most important position in the game, you need three good pass rushers, and the draft is all about the roster makeup over the next four years, not just the makeup of the roster over the next 9 months.
     
  23. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    My read is that every team wants to have good DE's but they are very hard to identify (cough, Dion Jordan) and very expensive to keep (cough, Olivier Vernon). Cam Wake, William Hayes and Andre Branch are a decent trio but Cam is 35. He has an incredible body and really looks after himself but he's defying Father Time. Every team needs to consider drafting a pass rusher every year, because great ones are so valuable and so hard to find.
     
  24. daryl

    daryl Well-Known Member

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    If Dion Jordan panned out and Olivier Vernon was extended when they had the chance, then DE wouldn't be a need right now. They need as many edge guys as they can get their hands on.
     
  25. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    The fact we gave Branch more money than he should have gotten doesn't mean that all of a sudden he's a great player. He'll get you ONE sack every 3 games. Wake is 35 and we were lucky he didn't get hurt last year after he had gotten hurt two years in a row. When Wake is not out there we have no pass rush at all. Hayes's on a one year deal and he's not a pass rusher. Two things you need to have a good defense. Pass rushers and corners that can cover. We have one single real pass rusher and he's at the end of his career. Yes we need a guard and a LB and a FS but we need a pass rushing End too

    Ozzy rules!!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2017
  26. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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    Its a premium paid position for a reason, and you don't usually get a lot out of later round picks at that position, use the draft to draft premium positions on cheap rookie deals. If Wake gets hurt can you imagine where we would be?


    How about we pick a Guard a little later and make that work for once like most of the league.
     
  27. Fin Thirteen

    Fin Thirteen FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    It isn't a need this year and might not be next. But DE is a premium position you need to address in the top 3 rounds and this year there are some very good rushers.

    Still, you are right and we should just as easily be targeting CB, S or TE with 22 as DE, not to mention the need positions of SCB, LB and OG
     
  28. JakeemThe Dream

    JakeemThe Dream A True Fan

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    Ya it's all about our future.

    I was against it until I got some good feedback from you guys.

    I still would love Foster or Reddick but who knows..
     
  29. Albert Romano

    Albert Romano Super Donator Super Donator Finheaven VIP

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    BARRY JACKSON
    bjackson@miamiherald.com

    It would be very surprising if the Dolphins don’t take a defensive lineman with either of their first two picks of the NFL Draft, which begins Thursday and continues through Saturday. And there are a combined 10 or so projected to go between the late teens (Miami picks 22nd) and the Dolphins’ second-round pick at 54.

    Examining the Dolphins’ high-round options at a position that’s a high priority:

    Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/s...y-jackson/article147080824.html#storylink=cpy
     
  30. TheWozz

    TheWozz FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    The argument that a first rounder at a need position will come in and be a plug and play starter from Day 1 does not necessarily hold water. The jump to the NFL is tremendous, mentally and physically, and, often, even successful players deal with a learning curve which means they dont get significant reps until later in their rookie year or even year 2. It happens fairly regularly. So even if we grab a player at a need position, it may not give the results you want out of the gate.

    Regardless, we're building a winning program....which means that we're looking at a 5 year, and hopefully 7-10 year return on the player drafted. Picking for a one or two year need is not the way to go.

    As for the cap commitment, we have "starter" money or young talent at every position other than one OLB, G, slot corner and maybe DT (depending on your view of Phillips or emphasis on 3rd DT). If we get a premier player at those positions, great! But would you limit your selection to one of them only due to contracts...poor call from my view

    I'd not reach for a DE, but if you have a group of players in the same tier at 22 and one is a DE...grab the DE. As for getting one later in the draft to groom, I'd have no issue at all with doubling up on a DE if the talent is there in 1 and 3rd or later rounds.
     
  31. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Owner of the Palace of Wisdom Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Team needs to get younger at DE, and get more natural pass rushers.
     
  32. DPhinz_DPhinz

    DPhinz_DPhinz FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Because people have sipped the Jordan Willis Kool Aid and now have to follow that decision to it's conclusion.

    I have my doubts...is this guy the same edge rusher that dominated Missouri State, or is he the
    edge rusher who pulled a Harry Houdini against Stanford? I think the answer lies somewhere in between. This is unworthy of the title "BPA" and try to connect that untruth to fulfilling a need...not fully understanding what "need" denotes.

    We could draft defense every pick, and hit them all...and still draft 13 next year....
     
  33. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    :err: Huh?
     
  34. gregorygrant83

    gregorygrant83 A True Fan

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    I think you could argue that Misi is as good of an outside linebacker as Branch is a defensive end. on the other side Alonso is a solid linebacker and while Wake is a better de, he's also getting old and you don't want to put a heavy load on him if you what him to play his best. I would say both positions are positions of need. I would say there are more quality de prospects in this draft than 4-3 outside linebackers. Most of the top outside linebackers in the draft are really 3-4 types and more edge rushers than pure linebackers that Miami needs.
     
  35. psfign

    psfign A True Fan

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    I hope the phins aren't so shortsighted to be JUST focusing on this upcoming season as far the draft goes. You must secure the pass rush!
     
  36. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I call DE and LB equal needs. A quality guy at either one and I'm happy. Quality guy at BOTH and I'm thrilled.
     
  37. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Had 5 tackles, a sack, a TFL, and a FF vs Stanford.
     
  38. Eesti

    Eesti Rookie

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    1. DE is one of the premier positions in football and offers great value in round 1. Especially when compared to a 2 down player like SLB.
    2. Branch is JAG (The team does not think so but everyone would benefit if we can find a better weak side rusher to put him on the bench).
    3. I would argue that we are in no worse shape with Larsen and Bushrod at guard than Branch at DE.
    4. We currently need 2 players at SDE to play one spot and Wake is 35 years old.
    5. DT is as great of a need as G or SLB.
     
  39. DPhinz_DPhinz

    DPhinz_DPhinz FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    We averaged about 40 sacks a game from 2009 to 2014...did we win anything as opposed to 2016 when we had 33 sacks and made the playoffs.
     
  40. Eesti

    Eesti Rookie

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    I just want to see an increase of defensive speed. DE who can pursue, LB who can cover, FS who can roam. CB who can cover. DT who can penetrate.
     

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