Holmes to miss multiple games. Foot x-rays being passed arond.

[MD]

If Tannenbaum goes, which is the active widespread speculation on all the jest boards, Rex will be gone too. Already Woody is intimating that if things don't turn around, they need to substitute in Tebow. And you know he'll listen to fan consensus cause for him it's all about the buck$. That house is swaying on its shaky foundation.

Woody was quoted on Bloomberg referring to Senor Snatcho as "that quarterback." I expect the Jets will be humiliated on MNF and Rex wont have a choice except to start Tebow.

Sanchez needs to go to another team where he can start over as a backup. The Jets handling of him from the start was horrible and they have done nothing to help him.

 

[nyjunc]

Going down injured and throwing the ball up in under a second after you hit the ground is not declaring yourself down. Please explain to me how you can think that the Cruz play should have been ruled a fumble last year, but the Holmes play this year should have been blown dead?

yes it is, he made no attempt to get up and advance the ball thus giving himself up.

 

[The New Guy]

yes it is, he made no attempt to get up and advance the ball thus giving himself up.

There was no time to attempt to advance the ball or get up since he threw the ball away in less than a second after he hit the ground. How in the world is an official supposed to determine that Holmes was giving himself up when he clearly went the the ground becasue of an injury, and threw the ball away so quickly. It is impossible. When a player trips himself or gets injured and falls to the ground, the play is not over until he is touched, or the whistle is blown. If you give up the ball before either of those things happen, it will be ruled a fumble.

The thing that gets me is that you are not consistent with your opinions. You argued that the Cruz play should have been a fumble, and yet you claim that the Holmes play should have been blown dead when it is even more obvious that he was not giving himself up.

 

[nyjunc]

if the Cruz play was ruled down then this one should have been ruled down.

 

[The New Guy]

if the Cruz play was ruled down then this one should have been ruled down.

That is like saying since the Fasano play was ruled a catch, then any play in which the player loses control of the ball going out of bounds should be ruled a catch. :confused: You thought that the Cruz play was a bad call. So, if you think that the Cruz play was a bad call, then you should think that the Holmes play was the right call. At least be consistent.

Regardless, the situations were completely different. There was not much time left in the game, and Cruz actually looked over his shoulder and saw the defender before he dropped to the ground on his own. I don't think Cruz was familiar with the rule, but I can see how the official would consider that giving himself up. Holmes went to the ground because of an injury, not because he was giving himself up.

 

[nyjunc]

That is like saying since the Fasano play was ruled a catch, then any play in which the player loses control of the ball going out of bounds should be ruled a catch. :confused: You thought that the Cruz play was a bad call. So, if you think that the Cruz play was a bad call, then you should think that the Holmes play was the right call. At least be consistent.

Regardless, the situations were completely different. There was not much time left in the game, and Cruz actually looked over his shoulder and saw the defender before he dropped to the ground on his own. I don't think Cruz was familiar with the rule, but I can see how the official would consider that giving himself up. Holmes went to the ground because of an injury, not because he was giving himself up.

Crus went down on his own, Holmes didn't. he couldn't possibly run, he was completely given up and those are calls the Giants always get and the Jets never get. It's frustrating. The TB game 2 weeks ago TB has a catch around the 15 in the last 20 secs going in for the tying score, the WR catches it runs a couple of yards then gets hit and the ball comes loose. Should have been a catch but they rule it incomplete, in the SB, the Manningham play. the rule is if the ball moves at all when you hit the ground on a sideline play like that it's incomplete but they ruled it complete. The Fasano drop was clear as day and they still blew, the Holmes play was clear, the Epps fumble was clear. That's why I hate replay b/c they still always get it wrong.

 

[DuderinoN703]

if the Cruz play was ruled down then this one should have been ruled down.

The world is out to get the Jets. They're ready for 'em though, they're ready.

 

[nyjunc]

The world is out to get the Jets. They're ready for 'em though, they're ready.

it may be a "giant" coincidence but the proof is on video.

 

[DuderinoN703]

it may be a "giant" coincidence but the proof is on video.

When proof is subjective, it isn't proof.

 

[The New Guy]

Crus went down on his own, Holmes didn't. he couldn't possibly run, he was completely given up and those are calls the Giants always get and the Jets never get. It's frustrating. The TB game 2 weeks ago TB has a catch around the 15 in the last 20 secs going in for the tying score, the WR catches it runs a couple of yards then gets hit and the ball comes loose. Should have been a catch but they rule it incomplete, in the SB, the Manningham play. the rule is if the ball moves at all when you hit the ground on a sideline play like that it's incomplete but they ruled it complete. The Fasano drop was clear as day and they still blew, the Holmes play was clear, the Epps fumble was clear. That's why I hate replay b/c they still always get it wrong.

Wow Junc! You sure have done a 360 on your view of bad calls and lucky breaks.

The Holmes and Cruz play were completely different situations. Cruz went down on his own with not much time left in the game. The officials had reason to believe that he was declaring himself down. I think the Cruz play was a bad call since Cruz did not know the rule and he thought he was touched down. Holmes went down because he got injured and it was at the beginning of the 4th quarter. He threw the ball away in under a second after he hit the ground. That is not declaring yourself down. That is a stupid play. Even if Holmes intended to give himself up, there was no way for the officials to determine if he was declaring himself down since he tossed the ball away so quickly. He was not down, and he was not declaring himself down. You could argue that it was an illegal forward pass, but Holmes did not declare himself down.

The Epps play was very close, but I would agree with you that it was a bad call.

You are way off on the Tampa call. Mike Williams barely got his second foot down before he was knocked out of bounds. He was bobbling the ball the whole time and never demonstrated possession. Take a look at it again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn1b9QaxD3k

You can get a good look at the 3:15 mark.

I'm not getting into the Manningham reception again. You can go back to that other thread and read all about why that was a catch.

 

[nyjunc]

Wow Junc! You sure have done a 360 on your view of bad calls and lucky breaks.

The Holmes and Cruz play were completely different situations. Cruz went down on his own with not much time left in the game. The officials had reason to believe that he was declaring himself down. I think the Cruz play was a bad call since Cruz did not know the rule and he thought he was touched down. Holmes went down because he got injured and it was at the beginning of the 4th quarter. He threw the ball away in under a second after he hit the ground. That is not declaring yourself down. That is a stupid play. Even if Holmes intended to give himself up, there was no way for the officials to determine if he was declaring himself down since he tossed the ball away so quickly. He was not down, and he was not declaring himself down. You could argue that it was an illegal forward pass, but Holmes did not declare himself down.

The Epps play was very close, but I would agree with you that it was a bad call.

You are way off on the Tampa call. Mike Williams barely got his second foot down before he was knocked out of bounds. He was bobbling the ball the whole time and never demonstrated possession. Take a look at it again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn1b9QaxD3k

You can get a good look at the 3:15 mark.

I'm not getting into the Manningham reception again. You can go back to that other thread and read all about why that was a catch.

Cruz thought he fumbled, manning thought the game was over. he didn't give himself up, Holmes couldn't move b/c he was hurt, he was given up.

Mike Williams caught the ball, got his feet down then was hit where the ball came loose.

it wasn't a catch by the rulebook which was posted numerous times in that other thread. The bottom line is this, switch the teams and the calls change. heck the biggest difference btw the Jets in the '10 title game and NYG in '11 was on an extremely close play they rules Sanchez's pass a fumble and they blew the whistle on Ahmad Bradshaw's fumble late in the game. Those close plays go the other way and NYG doesn't have a SB and we might have made it.

 

[The New Guy]

Cruz thought he fumbled, manning thought the game was over. he didn't give himself up, Holmes couldn't move b/c he was hurt, he was given up.

Mike Williams caught the ball, got his feet down then was hit where the ball came loose.

it wasn't a catch by the rulebook which was posted numerous times in that other thread. The bottom line is this, switch the teams and the calls change. heck the biggest difference btw the Jets in the '10 title game and NYG in '11 was on an extremely close play they rules Sanchez's pass a fumble and they blew the whistle on Ahmad Bradshaw's fumble late in the game. Those close plays go the other way and NYG doesn't have a SB and we might have made it.

Cruz did give himself up. He looked over his shoulder and saw the defender closing in on him and dropped to the ground on his own. He didn't know about the rule, and thought he was touched down, which is why he put the ball on the ground. That is why I think it was a bad call, but I can see why the officials thought he was giving himself up. There is no way the officials could think that Holmes was giving himself up. Injured players going to the ground are not declared down until they are touched down. Injured players falling to the ground are not falling to the ground to declare themselves down. They are going to the ground becasue they are injured. Most hold on to the ball until they are touched down. Holmes was stupid, didn't care, and tossed it away as soon as he hit the ground.

Mike Williams never demonstrated possession. The ball was moving before he dropped it out of bounds. That is not even a close play. Please look at it again! Bad calls do happen, but most of the ones you are mentioning were the right calls.

The rule was posted in that other thread which you apparently still don't understand. It is hilarious that you are arguing that the Mike Williams play was a catch (when he never demonstrated possession and he completely dropped the ball out of bounds) and arguing that the Manningham play was not a catch becasue the ball moved slightly. Just like you argue that the Cruz play was a bad call when they ruled him down, but argue the opposite on the Holmes play.

It's alright. It is all just one big conspiracy against the Jets.

 

[nyjunc]

he didn't know the rule and thought he fumbled, he didn't willingly throw the ball up like Holmes.

Williams did demonstrate possession, he had it and ran for 2 steps before being hit and the ball came out.

either the Cruz and Holmes plays are both down or both fumbles and if one wasn't it was the Holmes play b/c he actually gave himself up.

 

[The New Guy]

he didn't know the rule and thought he fumbled, he didn't willingly throw the ball up like Holmes.

Williams did demonstrate possession, he had it and ran for 2 steps before being hit and the ball came out.

either the Cruz and Holmes plays are both down or both fumbles and if one wasn't it was the Holmes play b/c he actually gave himself up.

It doesn't really matter if he knew the rule or not. What matters is how the officials interpret his actions. He absolutely gave the ball up willingly. It didn't get knocked out. He went to the ground on his own (thought he was touched down) then willingly dropped the ball on his own. The game situation and the time that passed when he went to the ground was enough for the officials to determine that he was giving himself up. Again, I don't agree with the call becasue we know that is not what he was doing based on his post game comments, but I can see why the offcials made the call. That is not the case with Holmes. Holmes went to the ground only becasue of an injury (He didn't willingly go down on his own) and immediately tossed the ball away. He did not care about the game situation or anything other than the pain he was in. That is not giving yourself up. Even if you truly thought that is what he was trying to do, there is no way for the officials to determine that, since he did it so quickly.


Williams was bobbling it the whole time. Even if he was not, the ball is not allowed to come out of his possession on a sideline catch. This is what kills me with you. You argue that the Manningham play shouldn't have been ruled a catch because the ball moved slightly (even though he maintained possession the whole time), but you then argue that the Mike Williams play should have been ruled a catch when he completely dropped the ball. He didn't have it and run for 2 steps. He was in the air when he caught it, and barley got the second foot down before he was hit and lost the ball. Even Mike Williams himself admits that it wasn't a catch:

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/09/buccaneers_postgame_reaction_a.html

Williams: "I have to hold onto it. I have to go all the way through the ground with it. It’s one of those situations that I have to learn from right there. He kind of popped into my view real late, I couldn’t get it all the way up to my chin, and it bobbled out."

 

[nyjunc]

that quote tells us nothing. either way the calls were made and they aren't changing.