How One Single Move Changes a NFL Team | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

How One Single Move Changes a NFL Team

WVDolphan said:
When a single move completely turns a team around, its typically the acquisition of a good QB.

For instance, take a look at the Seahawks before and after Russel Wilson became the QB. The rest of the roster was pretty much the same except Travaris Jackson was their QB.

Take a look at the Chiefs before they got Alex Smith. The rest of the roster was real similar. They were running garbage out there at QB.

Take a look at the Eagles with Vick at QB then Foles in that same position.

Take a look at the Phins when Pennington stepped in for that Lemon/Beck madness. Night and day.

Imagine what this team could accomplish if we got ourselves a good QB. The rest of the roster is pretty much loaded and ready to win.
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WV, in all due respect, if I were you I would start searching on google for recipes on Humble Pie and Crow for this coming year. JMO
 
Yep one move can totally change a franchise....I look at the Patriots and wish someone else would have taken Tom Brady before the 199th pick. The Pats probably would have ZERO Superbowl rings, and we would not have had all the aggravation the past 15 years.
 
Southbeach 2 said:
The difference in this what if is that it is not necessarily a negative, which I guess no one here has bothered to consider. The same topic at Happy Hour had half of the crew saying that this was a positive, which turned into a different discussion.

Clay, without a potential Eiffert, proved to be a play maker, a VG thing. Many, myself included, believe that Jordan is going to be a star, who we would not have had. Many also believe that the change is power from Ireland to the Philbin/Hickey combo is also a VG thing.

Kind of disappointing that posters here did not look at both sides, and instead see this as a pointless, sour grapes, what if thread. Phans in South Beach saw it much differently.
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I hear ya, and do get the point you're making that Albert as a single player having a domino effect could have been the linchpin to a whole different season. My point indirectly was that the OL was certainly better in '12, but also there were two additional blockers in Javorskie Lane and Fasano and a dangerous game changing runningback -all of whom if we retained, even with the #28-#32nd rated OL by most analytics, could have made a major difference. Tannehill improved this past season but he didn't have the luxury of improving as noticeably as he did in '12 with a better line and then above and beyond that, a blocking and path clearing FB and blocking/red zone threat TE. Yeah, Clay has come into his own, but he's a hybrid of the two and certainly is more offensively productive but does not come close to providing the protection that our young promising QB needed. In the 20/20 vision of hindsight, the best moves aside from trading for Albert would have been retaining Reggie and Fasano. I don't think that's arguable :idk:

 
Vaark said:
I hear ya, and do get the point you're making that Albert as a single player having a domino effect could have been the linchpin to a whole different season. My point indirectly was that the OL was certainly better in '12, but also there were two additional blockers in Javorskie Lane and Fasano and a dangerous game changing runningback -all of whom if we retained, even with the #28-#32nd rated OL by most analytics, could have made a major difference. Tannehill improved this past season but he didn't have the luxury of improving as noticeably as he did in '12 with a better line and then above and beyond that, a blocking and path clearing FB and blocking/red zone threat TE. Yeah, Clay has come into his own, but he's a hybrid of the two and certainly is more offensively productive but does not come close to providing the protection that our young promising QB needed. In the 20/20 vision of hindsight, the best moves aside from trading for Albert would have been retaining Reggie and Fasano. I don't think that's arguable :idk:
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No argument from me, I wanted to keep both. Bush made play action very believable, and caused all defender to pause for a split second. With Fasano, the D did not know if he was staying in or going out, again that split second.

All in all IF Jordan is anywhere near the player I believe he will be, this scenario becomes a very positive move. We shall see.
 
Joe Philbin had real concerns that J-mart had sufficient strength and skills to adequately protect Tannehill at Left Tackle. The basis of a deal with KC to recruit Branden Albert was in place but Ireland wanted to show himself as a top negotiator and didn't pull the trigger. J-mart at Left Tackle was probably his backup option but that's what he was left with. Jeff loved the negotiating and fancied himself as a good negotiator.
Ireland's failure to get the O-line talent from numerous expensive Free Agent and high Draft pick investments, is a big reason for his departure. But the other reason is that the Head Coach and GM have to be on the same page and working together. It is possible to interpret Ireland's actions as being disruptive. Leaving J-mart as the sole LT hope was Ireland's big gamble that ultimately failed badly. Joe flagged his dissatisfaction after a loss and McKinnie was traded for the next day.
It's all water under the bridge now, but I think Southbeach is right in that much was preventable if Ireland had just completed the deal with KC and brought in Albert. The deal was on the table.
The only good coming from this is that Ireland, Sherman, Turner, Incognito and J-mart have all left the building.
 
spiketex said:
Joe Philbin had real concerns that J-mart had sufficient strength and skills to adequately protect Tannehill at Left Tackle. The basis of a deal with KC to recruit Branden Albert was in place but Ireland wanted to show himself as a top negotiator and didn't pull the trigger. J-mart at Left Tackle was probably his backup option but that's what he was left with. Jeff loved the negotiating and fancied himself as a good negotiator.
Ireland's failure to get the O-line talent from numerous expensive Free Agent and high Draft pick investments, is a big reason for his departure. But the other reason is that the Head Coach and GM have to be on the same page and working together. It is possible to interpret Ireland's actions as being disruptive. Leaving J-mart as the sole LT hope was Ireland's big gamble that ultimately failed badly. Joe flagged his dissatisfaction after a loss and McKinnie was traded for the next day.
It's all water under the bridge now, but I think Southbeach is right in that much was preventable if Ireland had just completed the deal with KC and brought in Albert. The deal was on the table.
The only good coming from this is that Ireland, Sherman, Turner, Incognito and J-mart have all left the building.
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True but, there is still the question if Jordan, Hickey, Lazor, Benton, and Clay's development made the move a VG one.
 
spiketex said:
Joe Philbin had real concerns that J-mart had sufficient strength and skills to adequately protect Tannehill at Left Tackle. The basis of a deal with KC to recruit Branden Albert was in place but Ireland wanted to show himself as a top negotiator and didn't pull the trigger. J-mart at Left Tackle was probably his backup option but that's what he was left with. Jeff loved the negotiating and fancied himself as a good negotiator.
Ireland's failure to get the O-line talent from numerous expensive Free Agent and high Draft pick investments, is a big reason for his departure. But the other reason is that the Head Coach and GM have to be on the same page and working together. It is possible to interpret Ireland's actions as being disruptive. Leaving J-mart as the sole LT hope was Ireland's big gamble that ultimately failed badly. Joe flagged his dissatisfaction after a loss and McKinnie was traded for the next day.
It's all water under the bridge now, but I think Southbeach is right in that much was preventable if Ireland had just completed the deal with KC and brought in Albert. The deal was on the table.
The only good coming from this is that Ireland, Sherman, Turner, Incognito and J-mart have all left the building.
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And if you'll remember we cleared a roster spot during the bye week which was obviously for McKinnie so what in the hell happened between then and the time we finally made the trade?
 
We weren't one player (Albert) away, but I understand the domino effect. And it really is all about player management. It's about retaining good players, adding new ones that fit, and putting players in a position to win. It's managing and coaching. Good organizations win and lousy ones lose.

All NFL teams fish from the same pond. It's not as if they're going to Mars, when they pluck player from the draft and free agency. And the coaches are recycled, it's practically incestuous. So you wonder why can't a particular team get it together, you ask yourself over and over. There's no one explanation. It's just a combination of everything. All these little decisions you talked about, it's all of that. You either make the right decisions or you don't.

When's the last time you felt great coming away from a draft? When's the last time the Dolphins slam-dunked a position? When we picked up Wallace, we could have drafted a great receiver prospect and book-ended him. Teams wouldn't know what to do. Teams would be talking about our dangerous receiver unit. You could do the same thing with TE or RB. Make something GREAT on your team, not just good enough. That's part of having an identity. But every year we cross our fingers. Maybe Hartline will break out. Maybe Daniel Thomas will get better. Maybe Lamar Miller will be dominating. Maybe Egnew will learn to block. Maybe John Jerry will lose some weight.

All we do is cross our fingers and hope. So I'm crossing them again this year.
 
What if Albert participated in the reindeer games with Cogs, Pouncey, and Jerry? He may be gone already.
 
I don't agree that we weren't just one player away. If there was a way to simulate it over a million iterations I would bet anybody any amount of money the team is at least half a game better with Albert at LT over Martin. And on top of that we'd be in a much better position going into this years draft still having Martin and even Incognito as viable options on the line.
 
HoneyB said:
We weren't one player (Albert) away, but I understand the domino effect. And it really is all about player management. It's about retaining good players, adding new ones that fit, and putting players in a position to win. It's managing and coaching. Good organizations win and lousy ones lose.

All NFL teams fish from the same pond. It's not as if they're going to Mars, when they pluck player from the draft and free agency. And the coaches are recycled, it's practically incestuous. So you wonder why can't a particular team get it together, you ask yourself over and over. There's no one explanation. It's just a combination of everything. All these little decisions you talked about, it's all of that. You either make the right decisions or you don't.

When's the last time you felt great coming away from a draft? When's the last time the Dolphins slam-dunked a position? When we picked up Wallace, we could have drafted a great receiver prospect and book-ended him. Teams wouldn't know what to do. Teams would be talking about our dangerous receiver unit. You could do the same thing with TE or RB. Make something GREAT on your team, not just good enough. That's part of having an identity. But every year we cross our fingers. Maybe Hartline will break out. Maybe Daniel Thomas will get better. Maybe Lamar Miller will be dominating. Maybe Egnew will learn to block. Maybe John Jerry will lose some weight.

All we do is cross our fingers and hope. So I'm crossing them again this year.
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Well said. We have two great players in Wake and Grimes. Wake could not make any NFL's team practice squad, and came back from Canada. Grimes was a soon to be 30 year old CB coming off serious knee surgery. How many got those two right?

Ya roll the dice, and take your chances.
 
roy_miami said:
I don't agree that we weren't just one player away. If there was a way to simulate it over a million iterations I would bet anybody any amount of money the team is at least half a game better with Albert at LT over Martin. And on top of that we'd be in a much better position going into this years draft still having Martin and even Incognito as viable options on the line.
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Have to agree. Albert over Martin and McKinnie likely saves us 8-10 dead plays for loss in sacks, and maybe 15-20 hits and hurries, when RT's throws were definitely affected. Also, while Albert is a bit below average on the run, he is much better than M&M. Maybe Miller or DT get a few more long runs or at least a number of more first downs.

In no way can I see him costing us a game, and have to believe he was worth at least another win.
 
Southbeach 2 said:
Have to agree. Albert over Martin and McKinnie likely saves us 8-10 dead plays for loss in sacks, and maybe 15-20 hits and hurries, when RT's throws were definitely affected. Also, while Albert is a bit below average on the run, he is much better than M&M. Maybe Miller or DT get a few more long runs or at least a number of more first downs.

In no way can I see him costing us a game, and have to believe he was worth at least another win.
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Again, considering Clay is a hybrid and was on the field to make or decoy plays, while certainly Miller and Thomas deserve their share of the blame for both poor pass protection and a schizoid rushing game, considering how clinically discussed around here how the OL blocking ineptitude has contributed, I'm nevertheless surprised no one has yet brought up the lack of a true FB like Javorskie or Polite who could block, enhance the running game by splitting defenders and sometimes plow into the end zone for a score or three. Remember when the debate was raging whether we should meet Vonta Leach's high asking price? Well it looks like Ireland was right on that one, considering Ozzie signed and then cut him as his playing time dwindled with the season... but the thinking was correct.

The point is, we were looking for a blocking FB and ended up with no blocking fullback or effective blocking TE after letting Fasano walk... and with or without Albert, that void could well have meant 2 games. If we can't shore up the OL through the draft and waiver wire pickups as rosters get winnowed down, hopefully we can find a way to install better component pieces in the backfield and TE to compensate for the OL's shortcomings.
 
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