Interesting Comparison- Phins OL 2012 vs 2013

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by So Be, Jul 16, 2014.

  1. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    In 2012, the OL had new coaches, new ZBS scheme, and players who did not fit. Yet that OL gave up 20 sacks, and everyone was better on the run (Cog was a bit off). Pouncey, Jerry, Cog, and Martin played almost every snap, with Big Jake having some injuries playing 75%, and Garner filling in for the rest.

    In 2013, the L had the same coaches, same scheme, and the same players who did not fit. Yet that OL gave up 41 sacks, and everyone was worse on the run. Jerry played all the snaps but, the rest were mix and match for most of the year.

    So, the question is if it was the talent, fit, and coaching or, playing together as a unit which caused the disastrous OL play in 2013?
     
  2. truedolfan57

    truedolfan57 A True Fan

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    E. all of the above.
     
  3. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    If we would have had the same problem or worse in 2012, I would agree but we did not, and we only had to bass block on 90 more plays. Also we had a rookie QB in 2012.
     
  4. Geforce

    Geforce FinHeaven VIP

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    We did not have the same players in 2013 that we had in 2012. Jon Martin replaced Jake Long at LT. Tyson Clabo replaced Jon Martin at RT. Reggie Bush was a playmaker that Lamar Miller is only hoping to become and was able to get a lot of yards after contact that none of the running backs was able to.
     
  5. Zounds

    Zounds A True Fan Donator

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    We had 2 new OTs in 2013, the departure of Anthony Fasano, the implementation of a vertical passing game, predictable play calling, lack of leadership resulting in bullygate, John Jerry playing himself into shape, the loss of 2 OL starters mid-season, loss of Reggie Bush and no running game, ect.

    Bascially, 2012 and 2013 were not even close to comparison. You cant hold these OLs up side by side and expect them to have played the same.
     
  6. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Martin played almost every snap as a rookie RT but changed to the left side. That's 4 of 5, and Jake did have i9njuries. The RB's had no effect on the individual grade and rank of the OL's blocking.
     
  7. Fins1971

    Fins1971 C'mon Dolphins

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    90 more passing plays is a lot. That is 5 to 6 a game.

    I think the reason is

    F. Our offense was one dimensional.
     
  8. Geforce

    Geforce FinHeaven VIP

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    Changing sides is not easy and from what I saw...Martin did not perform nearly as well as Long did in both pass protection or run blocking. As Zounds mention, not having Fasano to assist with in-line blocking also had an effect.

    Only 3 of 5 players were in the same position to start the 2013 season as they were in 2012.
     
  9. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Fasano and the RB's do not enter in here for the OL's blocking the predictable play calling was even more evident in 2012 with no receivers, and Jerry played better in 2012.

    The loss of starters, and having to make many changes is my point in what happened in 2013. The OL plays as a single unit, and all the changes hurt their play.
     
  10. truedolfan57

    truedolfan57 A True Fan

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    martin moving to the left is essentially a change. clabo in at RT is another. incog missing half the season is another, pouncey missing a few games is another. The two years can't be compared apples to apples.
     
  11. Geforce

    Geforce FinHeaven VIP

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    The predictable play calling was not more evident in 2012 because we ran the ball almost 100 times more than in 2013.

    The OL plays as a single unit with the help of the TEs and RBs.
     
  12. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    I believe we are thinking the same. I'm not comparing apples to apples, just showing the difference in the OL playing together a whole year vs all the changes. Even Pouncey went from being VG on the run to barely average.
     
  13. Zounds

    Zounds A True Fan Donator

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    :confused:

    Of course they do. They absolutely had a role in preventing sacks. The OL is about scheme, not just 1v1 matchups for the OL positions. After all the schooling FH has given you over the years on OL, come on man. Fasano was asked to stay in and block quite a bit. That helps the OL as a whole avoid sacks. And Reggie Bush...having a running game helped a ton. Defenses had to respect the run. Of course these guys had an effect on the OL.
     
  14. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    We ran more in 2012 because we had no receivers and a rookie QB, That's as predictable as can be.

    I was only focusing on the OL play. If you want to go TE's. in 2012 there were 0 sacks. and in 2013 Sims gave up 2.
     
  15. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Thing is, the Martin that played L-Tackle In 2013, was not the same player he was 2012 or (even though that version of Martin was not exactly full of potential) or the player Long was before getting hurt. Martin in 2013 played scared, confused, and maybe already (After talking to Mom) was contemplating bullygate from the start, so he might have also not cared much. Basically he played bad...really bad in 2013.

    Martin looked bad in 2012 at R-tackle, but still was not nearly as bad as Clabo was from the beginning.

    Cog was not playing lights out in 2013 either, but once he was suspended, it got much worse for Miami on the left side. Jerry also was nothing special, don't know if he was better or worse in 2013 then 2012, but either way he was bad.

    Add to that as Zounds said, not having Fasano who was as reliable a pass-blocking TE, as we've had in a while, and trying to complete deep passes with Miami new toy (Wallace), even though there was normally little time to get the pass deep accurately.

    I hope they can get these problem resolved, could get ugly again if they can't.
     
  16. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    This thread is based on the OL's individual blocking in 2012 as well as 2013, which is fair. As in the past, you change the scope of a discussion to suit yourself and make an argument. You may consider buying PFF to go to school yourself. They know MUCH more than you do, as do I, on the OL. JMO :)
     
  17. Zounds

    Zounds A True Fan Donator

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    OK, the fact that you don't understand how an effective TE and/or RB can change the way our OL blocks, and how and effective TE and/or RB can change the way a defensive attacks, shows you really shouldn't be having this conversation. The fact that you have to constantly refer to PFF to tell you whats going on in the the very games you have watched tells me all I need to know about you.

    And regarding PFF......want to know who they hire to grade plays/players? They hire the fans. There are no former coaches, players, or NFL scouts working at PFF. Its all analysis done by FANS.
     
  18. Zounds

    Zounds A True Fan Donator

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    ....and you wouldnt know a flying wedge formation from the spread offense from what I can tell
     
  19. truedolfan57

    truedolfan57 A True Fan

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    shouright/gravity 2.0. You have to realize that the individual grades can and are affected by other players around you. ie TE and RB's.
     
  20. NY8123

    NY8123 Sophisticated Redneck Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    Jon Martin was bullied by every DT and DE in the league.
     
  21. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    Big difference was Jake Long at left tackle and Martin at right tackle in 2012. Huge
    Offensive line coach is to blame to some degree as Jake Longs presence covered up many issues that year and of course you do not put a sissy like Martin at left tackle and the stop gap RT from Atlanta last year was not the answer.
     
  22. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Incognito was suspended as well for most of it....I raised an eyebrow as well at the same line statement?
     
  23. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Besides it not being the same players, what are you basing your sack numbers on? Somebody's analysis of how many of the 58 were creditied to the line?
     
  24. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Putting grades aside for the moment, I do agree that a TE or RB can prevent an OL from giving up a sack but, they cannot help on the sacks he is credited in giving up. If you look at a sack, and then the replay, most can see who was responsible in giving it up. Sacks are facts, and not opinions or grades.

    Last year, the OL gave up 41, year before was 20. My question was if playing together as a unit the whole year was more responsible than all the changes last yea,r with basically the same talent level, for the much reduced sack total. I believe it was.
     
  25. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    If you re-read, I said "the same players who did not fit" like Jerry and Cog. The sack number breakdown last year was Tannehill with 3 for holding the ball over 4 seconds, RB's with 5, Sims with 2, the team with 7 on blitzes and unblocked defenders, and 41 for the OL. As far as I know, these are facts which no one has disagreed with over the past 6 months.
     
  26. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    FWIW, Fasano was only in to pass block 86 times in 2012, giving up 0 sacks. Clay was in for 105 with 0 sacks. I'm sure they gave some help to the OT's but it was not a whole lot. Snaps are also fact.
     
  27. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Good point. Long was a difference, and it was not only his play when he was able but his leadership did help IMO.
     
  28. Zounds

    Zounds A True Fan Donator

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    Sack count is a fact. The responsibility of that sack is opinion of the grader.

    ---------- Post added at 12:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 PM ----------

    86 snaps is a lot. 105 is a lot. Having a TE in changes the whole blocking scheme.
     

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