Interesting Comparison- Phins OL 2012 vs 2013

[So Be]

:confused:

Of course they do. They absolutely had a role in preventing sacks. The OL is about scheme, not just 1v1 matchups for the OL positions. After all the schooling FH has given you over the years on OL, come on man. Fasano was asked to stay in and block quite a bit. That helps the OL as a whole avoid sacks. And Reggie Bush...having a running game helped a ton. Defenses had to respect the run. Of course these guys had an effect on the OL.

This thread is based on the OL's individual blocking in 2012 as well as 2013, which is fair. As in the past, you change the scope of a discussion to suit yourself and make an argument. You may consider buying PFF to go to school yourself. They know MUCH more than you do, as do I, on the OL. JMO :)

 

[Zounds]

This thread is based on the OL's individual blocking in 2012 as well as 2013, which is fair. As in the past, you change the scope of a discussion to suit yourself and make an argument. You may consider buying PFF to go to school yourself. They know MUCH more than you do, as do I, on the OL. JMO :)

OK, the fact that you don't understand how an effective TE and/or RB can change the way our OL blocks, and how and effective TE and/or RB can change the way a defensive attacks, shows you really shouldn't be having this conversation. The fact that you have to constantly refer to PFF to tell you whats going on in the the very games you have watched tells me all I need to know about you.

And regarding PFF......want to know who they hire to grade plays/players? They hire the fans. There are no former coaches, players, or NFL scouts working at PFF. Its all analysis done by FANS.

 

[Zounds]

They know MUCH more than you do, as do I, on the OL. JMO :)

....and you wouldnt know a flying wedge formation from the spread offense from what I can tell

 

[truedolfan57]

shouright/gravity 2.0. You have to realize that the individual grades can and are affected by other players around you. ie TE and RB's.

 

[NY8123]

Jon Martin was bullied by every DT and DE in the league.

 

[phintim]

In 2012, the OL had new coaches, new ZBS scheme, and players who did not fit. Yet that OL gave up 20 sacks, and everyone was better on the run (Cog was a bit off). Pouncey, Jerry, Cog, and Martin played almost every snap, with Big Jake having some injuries playing 75%, and Garner filling in for the rest.

In 2013, the L had the same coaches, same scheme, and the same players who did not fit. Yet that OL gave up 41 sacks, and everyone was worse on the run. Jerry played all the snaps but, the rest were mix and match for most of the year.

So, the question is if it was the talent, fit, and coaching or, playing together as a unit which caused the disastrous OL play in 2013?

Big difference was Jake Long at left tackle and Martin at right tackle in 2012. Huge
Offensive line coach is to blame to some degree as Jake Longs presence covered up many issues that year and of course you do not put a sissy like Martin at left tackle and the stop gap RT from Atlanta last year was not the answer.

 

[BlueFin]

We did not have the same players in 2013 that we had in 2012. Jon Martin replaced Jake Long at LT. Tyson Clabo replaced Jon Martin at RT. Reggie Bush was a playmaker that Lamar Miller is only hoping to become and was able to get a lot of yards after contact that none of the running backs was able to.

Incognito was suspended as well for most of it....I raised an eyebrow as well at the same line statement?

 

[BlueFin]

In 2012, the OL had new coaches, new ZBS scheme, and players who did not fit. Yet that OL gave up 20 sacks, and everyone was better on the run (Cog was a bit off). Pouncey, Jerry, Cog, and Martin played almost every snap, with Big Jake having some injuries playing 75%, and Garner filling in for the rest.

In 2013, the L had the same coaches, same scheme, and the same players who did not fit. Yet that OL gave up 41 sacks, and everyone was worse on the run. Jerry played all the snaps but, the rest were mix and match for most of the year.

So, the question is if it was the talent, fit, and coaching or, playing together as a unit which caused the disastrous OL play in 2013?

Besides it not being the same players, what are you basing your sack numbers on? Somebody's analysis of how many of the 58 were creditied to the line?

 

[So Be]

shouright/gravity 2.0. You have to realize that the individual grades can and are affected by other players around you. ie TE and RB's.

Putting grades aside for the moment, I do agree that a TE or RB can prevent an OL from giving up a sack but, they cannot help on the sacks he is credited in giving up. If you look at a sack, and then the replay, most can see who was responsible in giving it up. Sacks are facts, and not opinions or grades.

Last year, the OL gave up 41, year before was 20. My question was if playing together as a unit the whole year was more responsible than all the changes last yea,r with basically the same talent level, for the much reduced sack total. I believe it was.

 

[So Be]

Besides it not being the same players, what are you basing your sack numbers on? Somebody's analysis of how many of the 58 were creditied to the line?

If you re-read, I said "the same players who did not fit" like Jerry and Cog. The sack number breakdown last year was Tannehill with 3 for holding the ball over 4 seconds, RB's with 5, Sims with 2, the team with 7 on blitzes and unblocked defenders, and 41 for the OL. As far as I know, these are facts which no one has disagreed with over the past 6 months.

 

[So Be]

FWIW, Fasano was only in to pass block 86 times in 2012, giving up 0 sacks. Clay was in for 105 with 0 sacks. I'm sure they gave some help to the OT's but it was not a whole lot. Snaps are also fact.

 

[So Be]

Big difference was Jake Long at left tackle and Martin at right tackle in 2012. Huge
Offensive line coach is to blame to some degree as Jake Longs presence covered up many issues that year and of course you do not put a sissy like Martin at left tackle and the stop gap RT from Atlanta last year was not the answer.

Good point. Long was a difference, and it was not only his play when he was able but his leadership did help IMO.

 

[Zounds]

If you look at a sack, and then the replay, most can see who was responsible in giving it up. Sacks are facts, and not opinions or grades.

Sack count is a fact. The responsibility of that sack is opinion of the grader.

---------- Post added at 12:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 PM ----------

FWIW, Fasano was only in to pass block 86 times in 2012, giving up 0 sacks. Clay was in for 105 with 0 sacks. I'm sure they gave some help to the OT's but it was not a whole lot. Snaps are also fact.

86 snaps is a lot. 105 is a lot. Having a TE in changes the whole blocking scheme.