Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by hoops, Jan 13, 2011.
good read, thanks for posting
I tend to agree with Mayock more than any other draft analyst. He also comes off as the most genuine.
Wow. Not one sentence about Mallett.
Think he's way off on A. Dalton. Unless Dalton really improves his passes to the sidelines, I don't think he's even serviceable at the NFL level. I also don't see the arm strength that Mayock is claiming. Maybe he looks better in a camp setting? IDK.
A scout mentioned Mallett in passing - during the bit on Locker. Said he was natural - or something to that extent - in the pocket. If by natural he means lethargic, I agree.
It puzzles me a little bit, the more you read on Gabbert, there is a very negative opinion of him from a lot of people across the net. I don't see it. Every interview I have seen of the kid impresses me. One quote in particular really struck me, after they completed the regular season, he said something along the lines of having "10 perfect games, 2 bad ones" and this being from them finishing 10-2. He was a 5 star recruit out of High School, and stayed home at Missouri. That speaks to having some degree of loyalty, wherever you want to rank that on your list of priorities when evaluating talent. I tend to like that kind of stuff.
I certainly don't want anything to do with Mallett or Locker, and if I have to hang my hat between Newton and Gabbert, I am taking Gabbert everyday of the week. Both however need to be put into offenses built around them, not try and mold them into a certain style of offense. I am really interested to see what Mayock ends up saying about Gabbert, as Todd McShay being on the bandwagon sort of scares me a little bit, lol.
Ryan Mallett can get the ball out. It's when he gets pressured that he breaks down and makes terrible decisions. The scout is right, Locker just looks nervous back there in the pocket the whole time. Mallett is smooth until you pressure him and then it's hold your breath time.
One issue in quoting people about a guy like Cam Newton is, which tape did they watch? I don't know which games that NFC scout watched of Newton's, and that's a problem because if you watched his early games you'd come away thinking much differently than if you watched his last three games. The learning curve was that steep. Early in the year he was absolutely right, seemed like Newton had to wait for a guy to get open to hit him. Late in the year? Not at all.
I felt like they agreed with a lot of the things I'd been thinking...they're not high on Locker. I don't see what Mike Mayock sees in Andy Dalton and I think he breaks down during a game especially if he tries to hit the perimeters. His ball placement is spotty as well. They see exactly what I see in Gabbert but when they make the comparison of him to a not-as-strong Roethlisberger or Freeman, well personally that's one of the reasons why I've been comparing him with Aaron Rodgers instead of those two guys (that and his lack of deep ball, which the scouts felt Rodgers lacked coming out). But they say he's the #1 QB and I have to agree. When I looked at him a few weeks ago, that's what I saw. I didn't see some borderline 1st or 2nd rounder that "will be drafted too high cuz of reaches" as Omar Kelly (oh he of the draft wisdom) recently put it. I saw a guy I said was a better prospect than Matt Stafford was coming out.
It's funny because as for the rest of it, everything specific they kept talking about, agrees with everything I've been thinking. But, their overall conclusions, mostly crying poormouth about the talent in the Draft class...I couldn't agree with. I mean, I agree with Mayock I don't think I have a single senior RB, TE or WR in the 1st round. And while he's wishy-washy on senior QBs, I'm not...I don't have one before the 3rd round I don't think. But, I still like this Draft class. I think it's a deep class. I remember the talent at the Shrine Game last year...this year I think it's better.
Some of the best players in the draft are selected slots 30-70 every year, and while the upper echelon of guys at the top may not be as good as years past, I think there is very good depth in this draft. It is important to remember how much the game is shifting towards a situational game, and players should be evaluated accordingly.
Take a guy like Dontay Moch from Nevada. He could go in the 2nd round, or fall towards the end of the 3rd round, depending on a run at a certain position, all-star workouts. There are a ton of factors to be taken into account. But if he were there at 79 for us, he'd be incredibly hard to pass up if we were to use him right. If you can get a guy and be able to use him to do what he absolutely does the best, it can be an excellent pick. The list of guys who excel in one area, but struggle in others, is a long one in this draft. A pass rushing demon to add to Mike Nolan's defense would be a really valuable addition to this football team, even if you take him 15 picks ahead of where you have him slated going in. If you can identify your major areas of weakness, you really help yourself out. I like Derrick Locke a lot out of Kentucky, but only if we have a role in mind for him and are able to put him in a position to succeed. Look at how differently the Pats use Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez. Same position, but two different skill sets. The good teams find a way to get these guys and help them exceed. Mike Wallace with the Steelers, Jimmy Graham with the Saints. We could do this all day. I think this draft is very strong in situational guys, and that is not necessarily a bad thing.
I have been telling you guys (as well as CK) Gabbert is our guy!
I really took a liking to Gabbert from the first time I saw him this year, and I have seen him a few times since. Watching him throw the football can be a thing of beauty. I am really interested in seeing who we bring in for QB coach and OC. Sparano and Ireland know they have no chance of being around much longer if they stay the course with Henne, and I am sure drastic measures are in store, one way or the other.
Rumors made their way that Ross wanted a star WR last year, suffice it to say we got Brandon Marshall. I think the same exact thing was made clear this year, starting in that 3 hour meeting the day after the season ended. Find me a QB, now, or you will probably be on the unemployment line. I expect a big time move to be made at the position, and IMO that doesn't mean Donovan McNabb or Marc Bulger, or some other retread. I personally think with some speed at the skill positions, coupled with our young defense getting better, that we could win with a rookie QB next year. I am hoping Ireland and CO. believe so as well. I
I like how the top of this draft compares to last year's draft for just about every position save OT. Bradford was a better prospect than Gabbert, but the QB position in general is much better his year. On D, I think this class blows last year out of the water.
I would take Gabbert or Newton at this point, I think the Dolphins could win with either.
What do you think of Pat Devlin?
i do agree with the point read in this article about getting a 1st round talent only thru like pick 20...that after that you come away with guys with 2nd round grades...and i think if you trade down you have to keep that in mind...do you lose a first round talent to acquire an extra second rounder etc
when i was looking at that walterfootball mock a few weeks back i kept thinking even by pick #16 that i didn't really like the talent at that slot even that was still on the board with that high a pick...and with some of these kids going back to school i think its gotten even worse of late
I think a lot of it has to do with the draft being a big lopsided - in a way that doesn't particularly help Miami this year. There's a lot of 1st RD talent on D - not a ton on offense. But, the guys who are 1st RD talents on offense are pretty high 1st RD talents - A. Green, J. Jones, M. Ingram, B. Gabbert, C. Newton, and I expect Mallett to go pretty high. Any or all of them could go top-15. There seems to be a pretty clear divide on offense between 1st and 2nd RD guys. Seems a little more muddled - and deep - on D. But, Miller and Quinn are much better OLB prospects than any of the OLB prospects last season; the CB prospects are much stronger - especially at the top -; I wouldn't rate Fairley or Dareus as high as Suh, but I'd rate both higher than McCoy; Bowers and Quinn are better than any of the 4-3 DE prospects last year. FS looks considerably weaker, but Thomas and Berry are rare players. Overall, though, I'd take this draft for D 100 out of 100 times over last season's group.
How can you like Newton when he throws off of one foot all the time and when he is out of balance? A lot of his throws are to avoid a sack he just throws it up there, that is a recipe for disaster in the NFL. Sure he is big and strong and can run but you need more than that in the NFL.
An excerpt from Pat Kirwan's book Take Your Eye Off The Ball:
- Marino always tells me the same thing, "If I worked out a quarterback for an NFL team," he says, "he'd have to show me 100 throws off his back foot." Still, too many scouts will downgrade a quarterback prospect for throwing off his back foot. In a collapsing pocket, it's actually an important skill to have. -
I haven't seen a lot of games out of Cam or witnessed these types of plays from him, but if Newton can make these throws, than kudos to him.
Great quote. I'm going to use that, if you don't mind (I know you were just quoting an excerpt but you deserve credit for finding it).
This is the reason Pat Devlin is not among the QBs I want for the Dolphins. The Dolphins should be limited to one of the big three, either Gabbert, Newton or Mallett.
I would, however, take T.J. Yates if he made it to the lower rounds...and actually pair him up with the top pick.
I think he's a decent quarterback prospect. He's not what Miami needs, because he's a low percentage guy. The arm strength issues for me are big. He needs his feet under him and full follow thru to drive the football. That's great if you have a clean pocket...but in the NFL you don't always have that. What's worse is that his nervousness when the pocket starts to collapse, to me, is probably related to his lack of naturally big arm. So might be the fact that he checks off his deeper receivers before they've even had half a chance to get into their routes, opting for all the underneath checkdown stuff, using his eyes to open those players up. If you keep trying to get away with that in the NFL, eventually you'll get squeezed, and someone's going to blitz the crap out of you and simultaneously suffocate your short receivers, and make you prove something.
I mean, he's extremely accurate on those short balls. He can go an entire game throwing maybe 2 or 3 uncatchable balls. He really uses his eyes well to manipulate the defense, and he goes through his progressions, so you know he has a sense of what everyone on the field is doing. That doesn't mean he's reading the field well, it just means he knows what his receivers are doing. You do wonder if he's hurrying through his progressions a la Chad Henne.
For me, question #1 is whether Chad Henne could play in a different system? West coast perhaps? I'm more convinced that we need a modern pass-oriented offensive scheme than a new QB and talent. Our OL is good enough but no-one in the NFL can run all of the time when the defense knows it's coming and then pass when you have to (and they know it's coming). I like Henne's toughness in the pocket, clutch 3rd down throws, and his arm strength. He reminds me a little of Cutler...who had a horrible year under the wrong coaching but has come around under Martz. Henne's errant throws and the defenses' continued inadequacy on third down doomed this team this year but I'm not for starting over. Let's start with a new OC.
Im interested Ck. With the possibility that the top 3 may be gone & the likely scenario we will attempt to regain a 2nd.......would you consider Vince Young?
IF the draft does not go well, somehow we try and trade up to get the guy(s) we want but we strike out, then yes. We need someone and even if he's a borderline psycho, getting him would be better than trying to win with dog meat at the position.