Jake wont make us awesome...

[fishypete]

Ugh. I never said he could not play the position. I said that he has not reached a point in his career where he is beyond competition. Where he is cemented as the starter.

By the way, I think Channing has more to worry about than Reggie if/when they move Porter inside.

You may be right about Crowder...but if the Dolphins thought he wasn't a player that could play ILB...I believe he be gone...like the wind...:)

 

[BO KNOWS]

Elite...I don't think so...if Carey was even thought to be a elite LT...then why are the Dolphins talking to J. Long..and why does it appear he will be the Dolphins selection?
Fans may think he played well...but it's obvious that management doesn't think that way.

I don't claim I know like you do. I was just throwing out an opinion. you see, neither of us know what the front office and coaches really think since we don't talk to them personally. Or do you? :shakeno:

 

[Ghetti13]

You may be right about Crowder...but if the Dolphins thought he wasn't a player that could play ILB...I believe he be gone...like the wind...:)

Agreed. I just want to be clear that there is a difference between being cemented as the starter through past performance and contributing towards the depth at the position with the possibly of starting.

 

[PerfectTeam]

with two gaping holes on the o-line, you might say we a serious injection of youth and talent there. and since we already have quality starters and depth in the front seven, I would say the need is greater there. imo, we will need 4 more offensive linemen than we have now, and considering we will be looking at most likely the 6th or 7th best tackle at #32, it seems a little late to start drafting them there.

The need on the OL may be greater but is it how Parcells and Ireland see it? Not quite sure. Looking back at the places they have been, namely dallas and ny, they had just as many issues along the OL as we did. They were both some what devoid of talent on the OL front yet they didnt address it as early. The jets were horrible along the OL in 1997 and they didnt address the line that early, the fifth round i believe. Look at the cowboys in 03. We were very similar to them in that they had a LT, two guards. That was about it. They only drafted a C that year in al johnson in the 2nd round when their right tackles were an old ryan young and tyson walter. Not exactly earth shattering names.

 

[PerfectTeam]

You may be right about Crowder...but if the Dolphins thought he wasn't a player that could play ILB...I believe he be gone...like the wind...:)

Agreed. However I do think that he would be replaced before Torbor. Crowder just doesnt show that much effort in his preparation and doesnt quite have the motor on the field.

 

[rent this space]

The need on the OL may be greater but is it how Parcells and Ireland see it? Not quite sure. Looking back at the places they have been, namely dallas and ny, they had just as many issues along the OL as we did. They were both some what devoid of talent on the OL front yet they didnt address it as early. The jets were horrible along the OL in 1997 and they didnt address the line that early, the fifth round i believe. Look at the cowboys in 03. We were very similar to them in that they had a LT, two guards. That was about it. They only drafted a C that year in al johnson in the 2nd round when their right tackles were an old ryan young and tyson walter. Not exactly earth shattering names.

every situation is different. with the Jets, he went after a linebacker first, but I don't think they had the talent at LB that we have now. plus, some might say they have already addressed the defense in Miami with free agency.

 

[Pinkboy]

A converted right tackle that seemed to play fairly well..

First off PerfectTeam, I want to say that I think you're a great poster.. Your posts are well written and articulate... I actually look forward to your posts compared to over 98% of the other posters on here.

With that said, Carey is an "adequate" LT, he is not ideal.. One of the biggest misconceptions on this board is a few people saying we will be good with Carey at LT.. I'm sorry, but I just don't see it.

And here's why.. Our offense was tailored for the short passing game because of our O-line just wasn't good.. This was by design.. Routes were shortened. Ronnie is an above average pass protecter (when he played) so he helped Carey quite a bit.. And our QBs rarely got the chance to drop back, set and throw comfortably..

When did you see 7 step drops from our QB's waiting for Ginn to get open deep for the long bomb? You didn't, it was very rare... You saw our burner taking quick hitches and quick 7 yard out passes.. This is because our coaches didn't have faith in the QB's blindside. And Carey was the main cog on that left side.

So Carey giving up only 3.5 sacks last year is very misleading.. Carey gave up quite bit of hurries and pressures.. Hurries that led to our QB fumbling the ball because of pressure.. Hurries that led to our QB's throwing the ball away losing downs.. Hurries that led to INT's , turnovers and overall bad or negative plays for the offense,. This in turn of course hurt our defense because they were on the field more than they should have been,,

After the final game of the regular season this past year, I saw someone put up an alarming stat on another message board. And it listed the most hurries Left Tackles gave up last season.. And Carey was in the top 10 for most hurries against a LT.. He was like 8th.. So he was 8th worst out of 32 NFL teams in that department.. And he was the worst in the AFC EAST for that stat.... And Carey gave up those hurries with our coaching staff needing less protection time because of our short quick passing game !!.. I am going to try to find that link again because I would love to show the proof of that here for all of my finheaven brethren to see...

So in essence, if we had an offense that had a normal passing attack, in other words plenty of deep drop backs, Carey would have had alot more sacks against than it showed.. It's just that the offense was curtailed to negate his shortcomings (as well as the shortcomings of the entire O-line in general.). And you cannot be a winning football team when your playbook is limited like that.

Basically, some of what you say is misleading when it comes to Carey.. When you actually study him, and not just look at a number, but actually see "why" things happen, then you can see the dire need for OT's on our team..

And let me ask you this, what if Carey gets injured? What happens if goes down next year like Ronnie Brown, Zach Thomas, Yeremiah Bell and a plethora of other dolphins that have gone down last year (and in years past) due to injury ?? What will you do then?? Who will you put at LT? A lower round rookie from this draft? Or Julius Wilson?? So You see, it's not as easy as just saying Vernon Carey is fine at LT.. There are alot of variables here that are being overlooked.

Jake Long is without question the best pick Miami can make.. For many many reasons.. Carey is just a much better RT so we immediately improve 2 positions by drafting Jake the Snake Long.. Not to mention we really help the development of our best young players who are on the offensive side of the ball in Ginn, Beck, R Brown, L Booker, Satele, Carey etc.. We help their development by giving them the much needed help they need to thrive.. Instead of hurting and impeding their development (and hurting their fragile confidence at that young age) by going for stop gaps and projects on the O-line.

Furthermore, and last but not least, we help the defense by drafting Jake Long.. Having a very good O-line immediately means more long drives, more success for the offense.. Meaning the defense is on the field less.. Drafting Jake Long is a win-win-win situation for the entire team.

Moreover, having a much improved special teams next year, combined with a playmaker like Ginn putting us in good field position, coupled with an offense that can move the ball via a strong O-line, keeping our D off the field, is a terrific combination to start a rebuilding team.. Those are some really REALLY nice pieces there going forward..

 

[fishypete]

I don't claim I know like you do. I was just throwing out an opinion. you see, neither of us know what the front office and coaches really think since we don't talk to them personally. Or do you? :shakeno:

Your opinion is that he could become an elite LT...my opinion is he won't. I base my opinion on common sense..and one simple fact...if the Dolphins really thought that high of Carey as a LT...they surely wouldn't be looking at a tackle with the first pick in the draft...just as they aren't looking at Ryan with the first pick in the draft.

 

[PerfectTeam]

every situation is different. with the Jets, he went after a linebacker first, but I don't think they had the talent at LB that we have now. plus, some might say they have already addressed the defense in Miami with free agency.

every situation is different, but the way ireland and parcells attack it seems to be the same. The jets had marvin jones, pepper johnson, and mo lewis at LB. James farrior was hardly a need for them then. The tackles were david williams and jumbo elliot. No where near the talent level the jets had at LB.

We have addressed the defense to a degree but no where near enough. They want this team made over in their image and its not even close yet.

 

[PerfectTeam]

First off PerfectTeam, I want to say that I think you're a great poster.. Your posts are well written and articulate... I actually look forward to your posts compared to over 98% of the other posters on here.

With that said, Carey is an "adequate" LT, he is not ideal.. One of the biggest misconceptions on this board is a few people saying we will be good with Carey at LT.. I'm sorry, but I just don't see it.

And here's why.. Our offense was tailored for the short passing game because of our O-line just wasn't good.. This was by design.. Routes were shortened. Ronnie is an above average pass protecter (when he played) so he helped Carey quite a bit.. And our QBs rarely got the chance to drop back, set and throw comfortably..

When did you see 7 step drops from our QB's waiting for Ginn to get open deep for the long bomb? You didn't, it was very rare... You saw our burner taking quick hitches and quick 7 yard out passes.. This is because our coaches didn't have faith in the QB's blindside. And Carey was the main cog on that left side.

So Carey giving up only 3.5 sacks last year is very misleading.. Carey gave up quite bit of hurries and pressures.. Hurries that led to our QB fumbling the ball because of pressure.. Hurries that led to our QB's throwing the ball away losing downs.. Hurries that led to INT's , turnovers and overall bad or negative plays for the offense,. This in turn of course hurt our defense because they were on the field more than they should have been,,

After the final game of the regular season this past year, I saw someone put up an alarming stat on another message board. And it listed the most hurries Left Tackles gave up last season.. And Carey was in the top 10 for most hurries against a LT.. He was like 8th.. So he was 8th worst out of 32 NFL teams in that department.. And he was the worst in the AFC EAST for that stat.... And Carey gave up those hurries with our coaching staff needing less protection time because of our short quick passing game !!.. I am going to try to find that link again because I would love to show the proof of that here for all of my finheaven brethren to see...

So in essence, if we had an offense that had a normal passing attack, in other words plenty of deep drop backs, Carey would have had alot more sacks against than it showed.. It's just that the offense was curtailed to negate his shortcomings (as well as the shortcomings of the entire O-line in general.). And you cannot be a winning football team when your playbook is limited like that.

Basically, alot of what you say is misleading when it comes to Carey.. When you actually study him, and not just look at a number, but actually see "why" things happen, then you can see the dire need for OT's on our team..

And let me ask you this, what if Carey gets injured? What happens if goes down next year like Ronnie Brown, Zach Thomas, Yeremiah Bell and a plethora of other dolphins that have gone down last year (and in years past) due to injury ?? What will you do then?? Who will you put at LT? A lower round rookie from this draft? Or Julius Wilson?? So You see, it's not as easy as just saying Vernon Carey is fine at LT.. There are alot of variables here that are being overlooked.

Jake Long is without question the best pick Miami can make.. For many many reasons.. Carey is just a much better RT so we immediately improve 2 positions by drafting Jake the Snake Long.. Not to mention we really help the development of our best young players who are on the offensive side of the ball in Ginn, Beck, R Brown, L Booker, Satele, Carey etc.. We help their development by giving them the much needed help they need to thrive.. Instead of hurting and impeding their development (and hurting their fragile confidence at that young age) by going for stop gaps and projects on the O-line.

Furthermore, and last but not least, we help the defense by drafting Jake Long.. Having a very good O-line immediately means more long drives, more success for the offense.. Meaning the defense is on the field less.. Drafting Jake Long is a win-win-win situation for the entire team.

Moreover, having a much improved special teams next year, combined with a playmaker like Ginn putting us in good field position, coupled with an offense that can move the ball via a strong O-line, keeping our D off the field, is a terrific combination to start a rebuilding team.. Those are some really REALLY nice pieces there going forward..

I would like the link with those stats about Carey. The only things I have seen were the fact he only gave up 3 sacks, had a 5.9 ypa and 7 false starts.

 

[BO KNOWS]

Your opinion is that he could become an elite LT...my opinion is he won't. I base my opinion on common sense..and one simple fact...if the Dolphins really thought that high of Carey as a LT...they surely wouldn't be looking at a tackle with the first pick in the draft...just as they aren't looking at Ryan with the first pick in the draft.

First of all you have no idea if the Dolphins even want Jake Long. This recent thing could be, read carefully, could be a smoke screen. Not a single person that does draft prospects for a living knows what the Dolphins are going to do. I'm sure you do though. The way you talk they already have him signed. Not so fast there slick. You also don't know if they like Carey on the left side or not. Maybe we do take a Tackle in the 2nd or 3rd and he is a right tackle. No one knows except the front office. Common sense tells me you are a hard core Jake Long fan and that's why you come up with these empty theories.

 

[fishypete]

First of all you have no idea if the Dolphins even want Jake Long. This recent thing could be, read carefully, could be a smoke screen. Not a single person that does draft prospects for a living knows what the Dolphins are going to do. I'm sure you do though. The way you talk they already have him signed. Not so fast there slick. You also don't know if they like Carey on the left side or not. Maybe we do take a Tackle in the 2nd or 3rd and he is a right tackle. No one knows except the front office. Common sense tells me you are a hard core Jake Long fan and that's why you come up with these empty theories.

Well I do know one thing...Bo Knows nothing.

 

[Phinja]

First of all you have no idea if the Dolphins even want Jake Long. This recent thing could be, read carefully, could be a smoke screen. Not a single person that does draft prospects for a living knows what the Dolphins are going to do. I'm sure you do though. The way you talk they already have him signed. Not so fast there slick. You also don't know if they like Carey on the left side or not. Maybe we do take a Tackle in the 2nd or 3rd and he is a right tackle. No one knows except the front office. Common sense tells me you are a hard core Jake Long fan and that's why you come up with these empty theories.

:sidelol: But if we were actually talking to CHRIS Long, it would be the 100% etched in stone lead pipe lock that we were taking him #1.


Here are a few things to consider:

1. Long is absoultely a LT.

2. JLong will be an outstanding player in this league, as will CLong.

3. This team will go NOWHERE with Carey at LT. The same people give Beck a pass for not having any time in the pocket to throw are the same ones that think we will be "just fine" with Carey protecting the blindside. Doesn't make sense to me. Which brings me to number four:

4. We NEED a LT. Yes, JT and JP will ride off into the sunset someday. But as of right now they belong to the Phins, and are playing at a high level. What we dont have is ANYONE playing LT at a high level. Sure Carey was serviceable for our 1-15 season last year, but there is no way he can be the man there for the next 10+ years.

5. The chance of an 11th hour trade is very VERY slim. So why even bother with a smokescreen? At this point BP/JI should be focusing on driving DOWN the cost of whomever they pick #1.


It really dosent matter who came before the guys in this draft. Each prospect is his own man and should be judged accordingly. As such I think Jake Long will be our guy come draft day.

 

[i got da juice]

how many times has there been an insane OLB, taken wiht the number 1 pick. OLB's are a dime a dozen. Premere tackles arent. get off your man crush and start making moves that will help our team.

 

[Geforce]

you chris long guys are IDIOTS
how many times has there been an insane OLB, taken wiht the number 1 pick. OLB's are a dime a dozen. Premere tackles arent. get off your man crush and start making moves that will help our team.

There is no need for the name calling.

In the past 25 years, there has been as many OLBs drafted #1 overall as there has been OTs.