Jeff Ireland good at drafting but sucks when it comes to free agents...why?

[Codemaster]

The only problem I have with Ireland right now is ignoring the obvious holes at WR and DB. I understand that Rome wasn't built in a day but come on. We are among the worst in the NFL in both areas. I am sure he will solve both problems this offseason. Other than that I respect what he is doing and I believe we have a quality team in the making.

 

[So Be]

It never ceases to amaze me how when evaluating Jeff Ireland people are comfortable with the simplest math... A look at how many players contributing will, for most on here, provide the entire picture when the reality is... It is not close.

One of the most IMPORTANT aspects of a GM's 'performance' are his philosophies... I think we can all agree that the league is pass centric and has been for QUITE SOME TIME now... Even BEFORE Ireland came on board... Over his tenure we have had the same weaknesses... and strengths... The number of picks, cap space and free agent try outs along the line (on both sides) is completely disproportionate to other areas of the team... You don't have to be Einstein to figure out that Jeff's philosophy has been to build from the trenches out... A philosophy which has LONG been outdated...

I'm sorry but an all 'world' top 3 center (like Pouncey might be) will just not have the same impact on a game as even a top 20 receiver... It is just the way the game is now. Couple that with the YEARS it takes to build at 8 positions and you have a VERY difficult time building a group that peaks at the same time let alone keeping them together!!! Hence we stand on the verge of losing Jake Long BEFORE we're truly competitive... Ireland's centerpiece, good or bad...

I think when you talk about GM that you should be talking about the 'plan', the 'vision', the big picture and regardless of the number of so called 'hits' (subjective) he has had in the draft or 'misses' in FA (also subjective) you must take into account the overall philosophy and structure to build around. This team is sorely lacking in talent at WR... and it's biggest weakness is stopping the pass... In a pass centric league that is simply unacceptable... It has taken us 5 years and 2 rebuilds to stabilize the QB position... I think that Jeff has proven his philosophies are outdated. Just like his mentor.

Good post and points. As of now, I believe Ireland is an average GM, who has had his hits and misses like all the others. I don't agree on his overall philosophy being flawed. You point to our problems at WR and CB, which every knows. However, Ireland did take his shots at filling those needs in Marshall and VD, who MANY thought would be the answers. They did not work out but, I cannot fault Ireland for that.

Far and away, the BIGGEST problem was finding a QB, because without a VG one every GM and HC is gonna SUCK. Everyone knows that Long was Tuna's pick, passing on Ryan was not on Ireland, although he may have agreed.

Then what? Penny was re-cycled for a VG year, we take Henne as the best available (who Tuna loved), pass on Orton, add Moore who had a VG year, pass on Flynn, among others, and now appear to have a REAL QB.

Bottom line is that any GM or HC is going to be under fire without a VG QB, and that Ireland has been average, not worthy of hate or love. JMO

 

[So Be]

The only problem I have with Ireland right now is ignoring the obvious holes at WR and DB. I understand that Rome wasn't built in a day but come on. We are among the worst in the NFL in both areas. I am sure he will solve both problems this offseason. Other than that I respect what he is doing and I believe we have a quality team in the making.

I have to consider a new coach, new O, new D, and giving some time to see who can do what with this. Based on everything I have read from Philbin, he wants to build through the draft. If you are Ireland, would you discount that, and just sign guys, and tell him to deal with it?

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

I think there are several reasons. One, prior to Joe Philibin, he was trying to find players to fit an outdated system. That might be oversimplifying a bit, but when virtually every other team is playing a different style, especially on offense, it's going to be a little hard to find players that fit your old school version. The other reason is that Miami has generally looked to add depth with some hit or miss types. That doesn't excuse Ireland for missing on high priced guys who were expected to be starters, though. I think it does point out how tough free agency is. Most players that teams want to keep don't make it to free agency so you are looking at players that maybe don't fit a specific system, might have some problems (coachabilityl, work ethic) etc.

 

[spiketex]

Maybe Jeff Ireland's perceived skill in drafting is more a reflection of the quality of scouting performed. We are definitely better than we used to be in the Wannstedt era of awful drafting but there is still scope for improvement. I get the impression that Ireland has trained his scouts to the point where he uses their information to distill those players he is interested in and then does his own analysis to make final decisions. On the surface it seems a pretty good process. In contrast, I don't know whether sufficient resources or quality of information is developed scouting the players on other teams that ultimately become free agents. There is probably a different talent in identifying potential and whether a college player is a decent fit in our system compared to analyzing current players.
Brandon Marshall obviously was blessed with incredible talent and on the surface should have been the key big time WR that we needed. However, after a relatively short period it was clear that he had major problems off the field. In hindsight these issues turned out to be a borderline personality disorder that probably drove Ireland and his coaches crazy. Chicago appears better able to handle him through the established relationship with another handful in Cutler. At any rate, Ireland's talent evaluation of Marshall was probably sound. But his purchase as a free agent was a failure because we didn't understand what we were getting.

 

[BringBackDan13]

I would have to disagree. As someone above posted...the best players on our D are all free agent acquisitions. Wake, Soliai, Starks, Burnett and Dansby. 5 of our starting front 7. A front 7 that is amongst the best in football.

 

[Fish-Head]

I don't really disagree with you but to use some Parcelss like terms, if I have a thai chef I'm not giving him italian ingredients. Sparano wanted to run the show with the line play. Old school I agree. Look at last year under a new coach and we grab a QB, RT which as a big need and fit the ZBS, Vernon a pass rusher, a seam threat TE, ZBS RB and then two late round WR that seem to fit the West Coast offense. If Ireland would have been drafting players for a WCO and we werent running it I would have had a bigger problem. The coaching staff does dictate alot of the GMs success. Sparano and stafff did a terrible job developing players I think we can all agree. Philbin already seems to be getting more out of guys after 8 games. We shall see truly 3 years from now. In my opinion Parcells bringing in Sparano to run that Old School offense was more Irelands problem then anything.

I certainly think that Sparano is a big part of the discussion... How much of the issue was Jeff feeding Sparano's philosophy or vice versa we'll never know... I definitely fault Ireland more... and the reasoning is simple... With the inordinate amount of picks and money sunk into that line over the years... How can we be only mediocre??? While the DL is light years ahead of the O... It seems to stand to reason that we should at least have assembled a very good, dependable and durable core... Even under Philbin the OL has been terribly inconsistent... So while we absolutely NEED WR's and DB's... The line is ANYTHING but a finished product... Especially since we are on the eve of losing both Starks and LOng.

 

[Fish-Head]

His job is to evaluate talent within the set framework, not define the path the franchise goes down. Parcells was handed a blank slate and was able to mold it in his image but either by fortune or design that's not what Ireland is presented with.

I have to disagree with you there... I think that is the very DEFINITION of a GM's job description. The vision, the plan, the architecture are EXACTLY the things a GM must concern himself with daily. I just don't see Ireland being proactive... I think he is actually resistant to change not open to it.

 

[Fish-Head]

Good post and points. As of now, I believe Ireland is an average GM, who has had his hits and misses like all the others. I don't agree on his overall philosophy being flawed. You point to our problems at WR and CB, which every knows. However, Ireland did take his shots at filling those needs in Marshall and VD, who MANY thought would be the answers. They did not work out but, I cannot fault Ireland for that.

Far and away, the BIGGEST problem was finding a QB, because without a VG one every GM and HC is gonna SUCK. Everyone knows that Long was Tuna's pick, passing on Ryan was not on Ireland, although he may have agreed.

Then what? Penny was re-cycled for a VG year, we take Henne as the best available (who Tuna loved), pass on Orton, add Moore who had a VG year, pass on Flynn, among others, and now appear to have a REAL QB.

Bottom line is that any GM or HC is going to be under fire without a VG QB, and that Ireland has been average, not worthy of hate or love. JMO

I think the lackluster approach he took at finding stalwarts at WR and CB demonstrate the fact that he does not value those positions enough which speaks to the heart of what worries me about him... Also both Smith and Vontae, the two highest picks in the CB spot are at BEST inconsistent and look to be little more than MAYBE a little above average. That does not speak well to his abilities as a talent evaluator...

But your point about QB is DEAD ON. This team was headed absolutely NOWHERE without Tannehill. Period.

 

[Canadi-Phin]

I certainly think that Sparano is a big part of the discussion... How much of the issue was Jeff feeding Sparano's philosophy or vice versa we'll never know... I definitely fault Ireland more... and the reasoning is simple... With the inordinate amount of picks and money sunk into that line over the years... How can we be only mediocre??? While the DL is light years ahead of the O... It seems to stand to reason that we should at least have assembled a very good, dependable and durable core... Even under Philbin the OL has been terribly inconsistent... So while we absolutely NEED WR's and DB's... The line is ANYTHING but a finished product... Especially since we are on the eve of losing both Starks and LOng.

I agree with you for sure, I think though having crappy development really hurt some of these guys. The problem I felt we had here in Miami was Ireland was picked to grab players by Parcells to fit Sparano's role. Since Fat Tuna left and now with Sparano gone I feel like his number of actually NFL players has gone up. This is by no means a free pass. He has made some decisions that I still don't agree with but having good coaching can hide alot of talent evalutors crappy decisions.

 

[circumstances]

I would have to disagree. As someone above posted...the best players on our D are all free agent acquisitions. Wake, Soliai, Starks, Burnett and Dansby. 5 of our starting front 7. A front 7 that is amongst the best in football.

paul soliai was a 4th round draft choice of YOUR miami dolphins. and if you want to nitpick, wake was signed from the canadian football league (not a free agent from another nfl franchise). starks, burnett and dansby i will give you, though :)

 

[So Be]

paul soliai was a 4th round draft choice of YOUR miami dolphins. and if you want to nitpick, wake was signed from the canadian football league (not a free agent from another nfl franchise). starks, burnett and dansby i will give you, though :)

Soliai was also a 4th round pick who was franchised for $12M, and signed for another $12M over two years. I fail to see the point on where Cam came from as a FA, just that he was one who any other team could sign. The same could be said of Bess, as an undrafted rookie.

I don't get your point, a FA is a FA.

 

[Ferretsquig]

I think the lackluster approach he took at finding stalwarts at WR and CB demonstrate the fact that he does not value those positions enough which speaks to the heart of what worries me about him... Also both Smith and Vontae, the two highest picks in the CB spot are at BEST inconsistent and look to be little more than MAYBE a little above average. That does not speak well to his abilities as a talent evaluator...

It had nothing to do with valuing one position over the other. As you said yourself, the plan was perfectly clear.....build inside out. And the '09 draft was almost entirely committed to finding skill position players. It just turns out that it was a horrible draft, in part I'm sure because of Ireland and his scouts, in part due to whatever influence Parcells had and the development of the players by the coaching staff. The development of Davis and Smith or lack thereof has little to do with a talent deficit. White and Turner on the other hand.....

I have to disagree with you there... I think that is the very DEFINITION of a GM's job description. The vision, the plan, the architecture are EXACTLY the things a GM must concern himself with daily. I just don't see Ireland being proactive... I think he is actually resistant to change not open to it.

Of course he has to concern himself with the big picture, but he doesn't define it. Its a product of the ownership, management, coaching, players and even the fanbase in tandem. This club at the moment is defined by Tannehill and Philbin and Ireland's job is to find players that can excel under their leadership.

 

[Strangeworld]

Ireland is a ham and egger... The lengths people on this forum go to defend mediocrity is astounding.

 

[circumstances]

Soliai was also a 4th round pick who was franchised for $12M, and signed for another $12M over two years. I fail to see the point on where Cam came from as a FA, just that he was one who any other team could sign. The same could be said of Bess, as an undrafted rookie.

I don't get your point, a FA is a FA.

not to me. a player your own team drafted that never leaves (even though his contract expires and he is technically free for however long) is not the same as bringing in another team's veteran player in free agency (no matter how many times it happens). while i feel that it is very important to retain your own players and know which ones to re-sign and which ones to let go, they are still your players, brought up through your organization. i also see a distinction between another team's free agent and cam wake coming from canada. i further see a distinction between signing undrafted college players and signing veteran free agents. i take your point as ireland having a somewhat poor track record at signing other teams' veteran free agents, but knowing which UDFA's to sign (which i see as more an extension of the college draft), and mining other leagues for talent (cam wake, marcus thigpen) is somewhat different, and ireland has found good players in those avenues.