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Latest Bleacher Report mock has Dolphins picking Gators CB

Would rather have a linebacker, safety, or DE at this position... Slot corners are a "dime" a dozen. If Jarrad Davis is there at this pick... is this too early to take him? I prefer Foster but he will be gone.
 
illscriptures said:
Would rather have a linebacker, safety, or DE at this position... Slot corners are a "dime" a dozen. If Jarrad Davis is there at this pick... is this too early to take him? I prefer Foster but he will be gone.
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Do not know if I agree they are a dime a dozen, but I agree with the statement.
 
You have the keep in mind the Board and availability. The positions mentioned S, LB, DE
Safeties worthy at 22: Hooker and Adams may be gone.
MLB: Foster and some say Zach Cunnigham. Foster will be gone. Idk about the Temple kid.
DE: Solomon Thomas likely gone.. I'm not a Taco fan.. Leaves us Tennessee kid Barnett and Harris MIssouri.

That's a small pool! If a Lattimore, Quincy Wilson, Tabor or Peppers fall- they MUST be considered.
Don't make mistake of reaching for need and end up with 2nd Rd Talent at 22.
 
If we wanted a cheaper alternative to Maxwell we don't have to use our first pick, there will probably still be a handful of good corners sitting there in the 2nd, like Tankersley.
 
First of all, the stuff ckparrothead wrote sounded logical but it was way over my head.

I'm glad I don't follow the money.

This Gator defensive back, I'm only familiar with him on the surface. Name and frame recognition and not much else. I tape the Florida and Washington State games every week, watching the tape only when those teams lose. Much joy. I'm too busy laughing at the outcome to care too much about the participants.

I do follow the numbers. Something excellent has been going on with that Gator pass defense. I wasn't surprised they swiped two recruits from the Canes at the last second, based on DBU (Defensive Back University) touting. Florida was tied for the national lead in fewest touchdown passes allowed, and the only school with twice as many interceptions as touchdown passes surrendered. Far beyond that, the completion percentage they allowed was the second best of any college team in more than a decade. I'm not sure even the devoted Gator fans are aware of that. The only reason it didn't receive proper publicity was that Michigan this season was that one team that topped them, with a ridiculously stingy 43.5%, or something like that. I posted the specifics on recruiting eve a couple weeks ago on Canes boards when the regulars were too busy mocking Florida as if nothing positive had happened to that program in a decade, and that McElwain was soon to be fired.

I've also figured out why Jabrill Peppers dropped so much recently: Once you win every award you have to start over again.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
First of all, the stuff ckparrothead wrote sounded logical but it was way over my head.

I'm glad I don't follow the money.

This Gator defensive back, I'm only familiar with him on the surface. Name and frame recognition and not much else. I tape the Florida and Washington State games every week, watching the tape only when those teams lose. Much joy. I'm too busy laughing at the outcome to care too much about the participants.

I do follow the numbers. Something excellent has been going on with that Gator pass defense. I wasn't surprised they swiped two recruits from the Canes at the last second, based on DBU (Defensive Back University) touting. Florida was tied for the national lead in fewest touchdown passes allowed, and the only school with twice as many interceptions as touchdown passes surrendered. Far beyond that, the completion percentage they allowed was the second best of any college team in more than a decade. I'm not sure even the devoted Gator fans are aware of that. The only reason it didn't receive proper publicity was that Michigan this season was that one team that topped them, with a ridiculously stingy 43.5%, or something like that. I posted the specifics on recruiting eve a couple weeks ago on Canes boards when the regulars were too busy mocking Florida as if nothing positive had happened to that program in a decade, and that McElwain was soon to be fired.

I've also figured out why Jabrill Peppers dropped so much recently: Once you win every award you have to start over again.
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The gators have gone nuts recruiting dbs over the past decade. It doesn't matter how badly QB, OL, LB or DT help is needed, there's gonna be 7 4 star dbs in the class. They get overlooked because of how hard it is to watch gator games due to the inept offensive play. When you don't have a QB worth a **** for a decade you tend to be thrown by the wayside. Randy Shannon will keep that pipeline of abundant south Florida talent flowing ... among a few others with key connections in the area.
 
From a fan standpoint, the salary cap stuff is only as complicated as you make it. That was my point.

If you want to do well for yourself, track the CASH and then be done with it. Should we cut Branden Albert? He's set to make $8.9 million in cash this year, so you tell me. Don't get it all twisted by trying to carry the 1's and divide by the square root of N. Is his one year of service worth $8.9 million to you, or not?

People complicate it, and they don't need to.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
You think Lippett would be an adequate replacement for Maxwell? I don't agree with this piece of the equation. If you're drafting a CB in the 1st and cutting Maxwell, he has to start on the outside. Lippett would be a nice surprise, but Miami shouldn't count on him. McCain is a better slot CB than Lippett is a boundary CB, and McCain is the better athlete, with higher upside.

If Tabor grades out as your best player on D, I'll never argue with going that route, but I think the front-7 is more top-heavy than the CB group (which looks to have a lot of 1st/2nd RD CB's). If you want a starting LB, you probably have to grab him at 22 or move up from 54. Miami also needs to add legitimate talent to DE. Grabbing Nick Perry would alleviate some of that pressure, but Miami should still prioritize that position. If M. Lattimore is there at 22, that's completely different. He's a star.
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1. "You think Lippett would be an adequate replacement for Maxwell?" - Arguably he was the better corner in 2016 already. He had 4 interceptions and 10 passes defensed. Maxwell was better by a discrete amount during an 8-game run. But where was he during the other 9 games? Either sucking far worse than Lippett, or just not available because of an "ankle" which took far longer to heal than anyone on the Dolphins thought it should take (I know that much). Yet Tony Lippett was only in his second year, not just as a pro, but his second year playing defense period. The maddening mistakes we saw Lippett make were easily understood within that context. He blew his perimeter containment? Well, he's still kind of new to defense and you expect that will get better. He bit on a fake? Takes some time. Meanwhile Byron Maxwell's good year really only amounted to a handful of games, and otherwise he was out there getting himself benched for EFFORT issues, sucking badly, or making himself unavailable for games. And I'm supposed to think that guy is definitely an upgrade on a third year Tony Lippett?

2. "If you're drafting a CB in the 1st and cutting Maxwell, he has to start on the outside." - Says who? There's no rule written on a golden tablet. If we drafted a defensive end at 22, how many snaps do you think he would play? I say 700 is the HIGH end of that range. Well, if (insert corner at 22 overall here) were to be taken by us in the 1st round and played at nickel in place of Bobby McCain/Michael Thomas, that's about as many snaps as you could expect from that player. And that's on the LOW end of the range, because he also may WIN the start. You never know.

3. "McCain is a better slot CB than Lippett is a boundary CB" - That may be the case in the future, you never know as Bobby McCain is himself a young corner, but it was not the case in 2016. It looked like it might be the case in preseason, but Bobby McCain was consistently found out on pick routes, and his underneath zone was pretty bad. I think he really only had perhaps one or two good games.

4. As for the structure of the draft I would say that linebacker is top-heavy. Once you get beyond Zach Cunningham (Mike or Will), Reuben Foster (Mike), Jarrad Davis (Mike), Haason Reddick (Stacked Sam or Will), Anthony Walker (Mike or Will), and Alex Anzalone (Stacked Sam or Will)...it starts getting rough unless you're heading in with the knowledge that the guy you are picking is probably not a 1000 snap guy at which point you can take Kendall Beckwith to be a hammer in the middle. Everything else gets really chancy. I'd consider taking shots on the likes of Ben Boulware, Matt Milano, Richie Brown, Duke Riley, or Paul Magloire...but with low expectations. But there could certainly be value to be had at DT beyond the first round, and there will DEFINITELY be value to be had at DE beyond the first round.

It's just going to come down to your grades on the player. I'm saying it's not a good idea to take this stance that says it would be a mistake to take Teez Tabor at 22 overall because we need front-7. I think that's kind of two-dimensional thinking, and it makes some assumptions that aren't necessarily true.
 
ckparrothead said:
1. "You think Lippett would be an adequate replacement for Maxwell?" - Arguably he was the better corner in 2016 already. He had 4 interceptions and 10 passes defensed. Maxwell was better by a discrete amount during an 8-game run. But where was he during the other 9 games? Either sucking far worse than Lippett, or just not available because of an "ankle" which took far longer to heal than anyone on the Dolphins thought it should take (I know that much). Yet Tony Lippett was only in his second year, not just as a pro, but his second year playing defense period. The maddening mistakes we saw Lippett make were easily understood within that context. He blew his perimeter containment? Well, he's still kind of new to defense and you expect that will get better. He bit on a fake? Takes some time. Meanwhile Byron Maxwell's good year really only amounted to a handful of games, and otherwise he was out there getting himself benched for EFFORT issues, sucking badly, or making himself unavailable for games. And I'm supposed to think that guy is definitely an upgrade on a third year Tony Lippett?

2. "If you're drafting a CB in the 1st and cutting Maxwell, he has to start on the outside." - Says who? There's no rule written on a golden tablet. If we drafted a defensive end at 22, how many snaps do you think he would play? I say 700 is the HIGH end of that range. Well, if (insert corner at 22 overall here) were to be taken by us in the 1st round and played at nickel in place of Bobby McCain/Michael Thomas, that's about as many snaps as you could expect from that player. And that's on the LOW end of the range, because he also may WIN the start. You never know.

3. "McCain is a better slot CB than Lippett is a boundary CB" - That may be the case in the future, you never know as Bobby McCain is himself a young corner, but it was not the case in 2016. It looked like it might be the case in preseason, but Bobby McCain was consistently found out on pick routes, and his underneath zone was pretty bad. I think he really only had perhaps one or two good games.

4. As for the structure of the draft I would say that linebacker is top-heavy. Once you get beyond Zach Cunningham (Mike or Will), Reuben Foster (Mike), Jarrad Davis (Mike), Haason Reddick (Stacked Sam or Will), Anthony Walker (Mike or Will), and Alex Anzalone (Stacked Sam or Will)...it starts getting rough unless you're heading in with the knowledge that the guy you are picking is probably not a 1000 snap guy at which point you can take Kendall Beckwith to be a hammer in the middle. Everything else gets really chancy. I'd consider taking shots on the likes of Ben Boulware, Matt Milano, Richie Brown, Duke Riley, or Paul Magloire...but with low expectations. But there could certainly be value to be had at DT beyond the first round, and there will DEFINITELY be value to be had at DE beyond the first round.

It's just going to come down to your grades on the player. I'm saying it's not a good idea to take this stance that says it would be a mistake to take Teez Tabor at 22 overall because we need front-7. I think that's kind of two-dimensional thinking, and it makes some assumptions that aren't necessarily true.
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1. Agree to disagree. Lippett plays soft and loses his balance too often. Maxwell is a very good CB, when healthy, in a cover-2, 3, or 4 D. Relying on Lippett is a mistake.

2. If you don't have a second starting CB, and you draft a CB in the 1st so that you can cut Maxwell, he better be able to take Maxwell's spot. Again, Lippett is the point where our plans diverge. You can draft a CB and start him in the slot, but you have to keep Maxwell for 2017.

3. Skipping this, because I don't want to sound like a broken record, bashing Lippett.

4. I wouldn't put Anzalone in that group, and Beckwith will disappoint if you expect him to be a hammer. It's still relatively early in the process, but if you miss out on Cunningham, Foster, Walker, Reddick, Davis, or McMillian, I hope you added Timmons in FA.

I don't like this DT group outside of Allen and Wormley. McDowell is an awesome talent, but I've read enough to be turned off. Outside of them, though, lots of backups and guys who won't stick around the league. Adams, Watkins, Godchaux, and Tomlinson are the only other DT's (that come to mind), who I would consider in the first five rounds.

DE does look like there will be nice depth, and we'll know more after the Combine. I think Miami should be open to doubling up at DE and LB. I don't really trust this FO to find the right DE's, but we'll see how that plays out.
 
I don't think drafting tabor means maxwell has to go. He was good enough after the benching for his salary and #1 slot to make sense. The ankle thing sucked but that happens. He'll be dead to me if I see him out there lolly gagging again though - but I think he's moved on from that crap - his interviews are reflecting that.

Tabor would probably compete with Howard for the #2 spot and could slide into the slot if McCain doesn't progress like I think he will. Lippett would be the #4 dime guy, which is where he should be based on his progression. He's not there yet, but he's come a hell of a long way with so little experience. No need to throw him into the fire just yet, although injuries have a way of messing with your plans.
 
That's fair, we disagree on Lippett.

But we also disagree on Byron Maxwell. I think people naturally want to look at "when it was good" with Maxwell and then sort of project that out. I think that's a mistake. He's not that kind of player. He never has been. That's why he's on his third team. It's why Seattle didn't get into the bidding and it's why Philadelphia got rid of him after one year and it's why I can tell you for FACT that circulating around the Miami front offices right now is the notion that they'd love to dump him and "upgrade" him with a cheaper asset. If you keep chasing the "when it was good" with Maxwell, you're going to be disappointed. He's going to tease you and disappoint you, rinse, repeat.

So even if you don't think Lippett is an upgrade there's a fair chance that whoever you take at 22 overall could be an upgrade.

As for defensive tackle, it's a sneaky class. Eddie Vanderdoes and Montravious Adams are two guys with great talent who tend to disappoint, but then again Vanderdoes did actually make plays in college. He's got a sloppy body and work ethic that will need to be cleaned up under the watchful eye of Ndamukong Suh, who doesn't brook excuses with his teammates on the line. Tomlinson has talent. I think Carlos Watkins is better than you're giving him credit for and could/should be in whatever top tier there is. You've left Charles Walker off the list of talents, and he's a major one. You're right about McDowell. Intriguing but troubled.

This class is going to have players in it though like Grover Stewart of Albany State, Josh Tupou of Colorado, Ralph Green of Indiana, and DeAngelo Brown of Louisville...guys that are going to play on Sundays and do well for themselves in their roles.

And if we're getting into the free agent class at LB then I think A.J. Klein needs to be accounted for. But also keep an eye on DeAndre Levy in Detroit. It would be ironic if he's released when he's finally healthy, which he is. But that's the situation they're possibly facing. Levy got a little "political" recently with respect to writing about concussions, and it may not be going over well.
 
You guys forgot about Brantley too ... I don't love the player though and he'll get drafted before the value makes sense for us.

Totally agree about McDowell ... I've read plenty to turn me off about the attitude and character stuff. A 3-4 team will probably take him too early based on that tape.

Love aj klein. Always have. Sign me up.
 
You've got to go for the BPA in my opinion and that very well could be one of the corners. If that happens, I would expect Miami to trade up and get one of the linebackers. Hard to imagine the top linebackers making it to #54.
 
Snoop said:
If we wanted a cheaper alternative to Maxwell we don't have to use our first pick, there will probably still be a handful of good corners sitting there in the 2nd, like Tankersley.
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I don't think the point is "about that", I think it's more how the board goes and what's available and who can help us the most at 22. I cringe when I hear the argument about pass rush or lb. when we don't even know who will be available at this point. To me that argument is obtuse at best. I agree with anyone who brings up the "reaching" argument and that is extremely risky. I can even see the team going with an offense of pick if that is the BAP and all the defensive options are previously taken.
 
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