MERGED: Wannstedt Poll (Fins fans only)

[BlueFin]

The current coaching staff has proven quite well that they are clueless, just as this owner has in picking Wannstedt in the first place.

Results are all that matters, and we haven't gotten them, and Yimmies failures don't justify this coaches tenure, nor does Shula's, I'm not saying the coach should be changed every year, but once a coach has been given a chance (such as four years) and still fails to produce, its time to roll the dice on another candidate, and hopefully next time someone who didn't already prove themselves a complete failure before like Wannstedt.

Exactly NoOffense, how many years do you stay the status quo? For starters hiring a man with such a horrible record in Chicago was major mistake, especially with a coach like Vermiel who had just won a Superbowl was available, its all steamrolled downhill since. Every year the fanbase gets excited and every year we end up disapointed, like you say "at some point you have to roll the dice on another coach and move on, hopefully this will be his last if he repeats his lack of playoff success from his first ten years.

 

[darkoak]

darkoak, I respect your opinion...but, it demonstrates that many fans don't understand or reject our style of football.

We play a field position style of football. It's the same style that Parcells, Belichick, Fox and other teams that believe in the concept that defense wins championships.

Let's look at how many times these other teams went for it on fourth down and take the time to understand and respect a field position style of play when the team has an established trust in it's DEFENSE.

Fourth Down Attempts/Conversions
Miami 10 attempts 5 conversions
Carolina 11 attempts 6 conversions
Dallas 12 attempts 4 conversions
New England 14 attempts 6 conversions
Philidelphia 7 attempts 3 conversions
Baltimore 11 attempts 7 conversions
Green Bay 7 attempts 4 conversions
Seattle 7 attempts 2 conversions

Here are the top ten teams who were the most aggressive on 4th down:
1) Jacksonville (26)
2) Buffalo
3) Oakland
4) Chicago
5) Pittsburgh
6) Arizona
7) Detroit
8) San Diego
9) San Francisco
10) New Orleans (19)

Which group would you rather be identified with...those who punt or those who go for it?

New England punted 87 times
Dallas punted 95 times
Carolina punted 78 times
Philadelphia punted 79 times
Miami punted 84 times
Balitmore 91 times
Kansas City 80 times

The field position style of play is sound. The Dolphins need to execute better and score more points. We must not rely on taking great risks to win. We must execute better, control the clock, and force the other team to make the game costing risks.

Stats are easily cooked up to look like something they are not. The winning teams either played a stifling defense style and try to keep it close ( Miami, Baltimore, New England etc.) or play a wide open high scoring style ( K.C., Philidelphia). The point is these teams respectively are routinely in either close games or blow outs. Of course you punt in those situations on fourth down. The teams that you quoted who went for it more on fourth down are teams that were losing more, and by larger scores, of course they'd go for it, they had to. My point was about DW's coservative play calls on fourth down is he wouldn't go for it regardless of whether he was winning, lossing, tied, down by 20 with 6 minutes to go, you name it, short of being in the last two minutes of a game.

 

[BlueFin]

Stats are easily cooked up to look like something they are not. The winning teams either played a stifling defense style and try to keep it close ( Miami, Baltimore, New England etc.) or play a wide open high scoring style ( K.C., Philidelphia). The point is these teams respectively are routinely in either close games or blow outs. Of course you punt in those situations on fourth down. The teams that you quoted who went for it more on fourth down are teams that were losing more, and by larger scores, of course they'd go for it, they had to. My point was about DW's coservative play calls on fourth down is he wouldn't go for it regardless of whether he was winning, lossing, tied, down by 20 with 6 minutes to go, you name it, short of being in the last two minutes of a game.

Excellent point, the only shame is you would have to point that out to anyone, haven't we all watched this mans coaching philosophy for four years?

 

[inFINSible]

It may be a point but, it's not an excellent point because it's not accurate.

 

[darkoak]

It may be a point but, it's not an excellent point because it's not accurate.

Please bring us up to date on what's accurate then. But don't drum out a bunch of stats. The numbers don't always mean what they look like, and we've all watched the games this year.

 

[inFINSible]

Please bring us up to date on what's accurate then. But don't drum out a bunch of stats. The numbers don't always mean what they look like, and we've all watched the games this year.

Well, I would say each individual situation requires it's own line of thought but, I seriously doubt that Wannstedt would punt on 4th down if we were down by 20 with 6 minutes to go...

Yes, he's a conservative, defensive coach but, not to a fault. His philosophy has born champions so it's awful hard to argue against it's merits.

If you don't like his philosophy that's fine but, using the word "conservative" as a synonym for "bad" is unjustifiable.

 

[BlueFin]

Please bring us up to date on what's accurate then. But don't drum out a bunch of stats. The numbers don't always mean what they look like, and we've all watched the games this year.

Exactly, if were gonna let numbers determine accuracy then the Dolphins should have been alot better than 9-7 in 2002 with the leagues leading rusher and a top five defense, we'd almost have to conclude it was coaching and/or quarterbacking at fault wouldn't we? And we all know it is never that.............

 

[metatron1221]

Yes

 

[BlueFin]

Well, I would say each individual situation requires it's own line of thought but, I seriously doubt that Wannstedt would punt on 4th down if we were down by 20 with 6 minutes to go...

Yes, he's a conservative, defensive coach but, not to a fault. His philosophy has born champions so it's awful hard to argue against it's merits.

If you don't like his philosophy that's fine but, using the word "conservative" as a synonym for "bad" is unjustifiable.

Not to a fault? Perhaps you'll explain then for us all why Wannstedt has 3 playoff appearances in 10 years of coaching? Why his greatest win was a wildcard win? Why pray tell is it that Wannstedt hasn't seriously challenged for a Championship like the few exceptions you want to compare his philosophy too?

 

[inFINSible]

Not to a fault? Perhaps you'll explain then for us all why Wannstedt has 3 playoff appearances in 10 years of coaching? Why his greatest win was a wildcard win? Why pray tell is it that Wannstedt hasn't seriously challenged for a Championship like the few exceptions you want to compare his philosophy too?

Lack of talent on the team.

 

[darkoak]

If you don't like his philosophy that's fine but, using the word "conservative" as a synonym for "bad" is unjustifiable.

It's is justifiable when you are discussing whether to keep him as coach or not. It's also not his only bad trait as I mentioned in a previous post. The owner of this team said himself he wants a more aggressive approach to game planning. I'm sure I'm not in the minority here by saying that as a fan of this team I also wish for this. I mean on both sides of the ball as well, not just the offense. This dogged adherance to a conservative game plan is starting to make the team complacent and oppostion teams confident they can beat our game plan.

 

[inFINSible]

It's is justifiable when you are discussing whether to keep him as coach or not. It's also not his only bad trait as I mentioned in a previous post. The owner of this team said himself he wants a more aggressive approach to game planning. I'm sure I'm not in the minority here by saying that as a fan of this team I also wish for this. I mean on both sides of the ball as well, not just the offense. This dogged adherance to a conservative game plan is starting to make the team complacent and oppostion teams confident they can beat our game plan.

The owner of this team has also admitted that he knows very little about the game of football.

 

[PhinstiGator]

Stats are easily cooked up to look like something they are not.

You said that Wannstedt didn't go for it enough on 4th down. Then, I compared how many ACTUAL times we attempted 4th down conversions and it was very comparible with that of a playoff quality team. It is more likely that you have misrepresented the facts. I'm sure you didn't do it on purpose.

The winning teams either played a stifling defense style and try to keep it close ( Miami, Baltimore, New England etc.) or play a wide open high scoring style ( K.C., Philidelphia). The point is these teams respectively are routinely in either close games or blow outs. Of course you punt in those situations on fourth down.

No team plays to keep it close. Every team plays to win the game. The fact that many teams are evenly matched brings an awareness that the game will have to be won in the 4th quarter. The whole idea is to not give the game away by making a stupid mastake and to force the other team into the worst possible position to keep them from scoring points. Again, Miami punted less than New England and Dallas...two teams that strategically play a field position style of play in VERY CLOSE GAMES.

The teams that you quoted who went for it more on fourth down are teams that were losing more, and by larger scores, of course they'd go for it, they had to. My point was about DW's coservative play calls on fourth down is he wouldn't go for it regardless of whether he was winning, lossing, tied, down by 20 with 6 minutes to go, you name it, short of being in the last two minutes of a game.

We went for it 10 times. How many times did you want us to go for it? 11? 12? Would that have made any difference about what you think about playing for field position and trusting your defense?

 

[BlueFin]

Lack of talent on the team.

2002, leagues leading rusher, top five defense, and yet we don't even make the playoffs because we don't have enough talent on the team?

Ok......you sold me, I'm rushing a letter to Wayne as a 34 year fan urging Wannstedt be extended out for a total of ten more years, you've convinced me that Wannstedt derailed himself when he controlled personnel in Miami and Chicago and he deserves, no he demands a full ten years to prove himself without being derailed by himself.

 

[inFINSible]

2002, leagues leading rusher, top five defense, and yet we don't even make the playoffs because we don't have enough talent on the team?

Ok......you sold me, I'm rushing a letter to Wayne as a 34 year fan urging Wannstedt be extended out for a total of ten more years, you've convinced me that Wannstedt derailed himself when he controlled personnel in Miami and Chicago and he deserves, no he demands a full ten years to prove himself without being derailed by himself.

Lucas....2-4 as a starter.

Before you even go there, Wanny is no longer in charge of personell.

As I've said before in this thread, and yet I'm being misrepresented again by someone trying to put words in my mouth, I wanted wannstedt gone after last season. But even though that's what I wanted I'm not spoiled or arrogant enough to claim that the season is lost just because the team didn't do what I wanted. Wannstedt could turn out to be a great coach once he is relieved of his GM duties. As a matter of fact, I'm positive that Wannstedt was NOT GM in the year that was voted the BEST COACH IN THE NFL.