Miami's 2004 Defense_better_or_worse? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Miami's 2004 Defense_better_or_worse?

The reason we ranked lower in pass protection is purely missed tackles and the fact that we were #2 against the run forcing teams to throw more.
 
the 2004 version of the dolphins defense should be much improved due to the additions of reggie howard, will poole and more speed in the secondary .. the additions of howard and poole allow miami to move surtain back to the slot on multiple reciever sets by the opponent ... he is considered one of the best to play the slot reciever.. also howard and poole bring a more physical style.. also these additions with the renewed health of madison and this secondary could be very very good ...
 
MDFINFAN said:
This doesn't make sense, first you say that the players made bad plays, you actually named some of the problems, ie. players not doing what they're suppose to. Then you say if the coaching is better, wtf..if the players do what they're suppose to do, then you want have a coaching issue...the coaches had nothing to do with missed tackles, CB's letting their man get behind them or Safties doing the same. Obviously they were in position, that's how you know who got beat, Then ya'll go back and say coaching..???? I don't get that, it's like a train, someone says it and it has to be true....Please it's not the coaching, it's the players..they've been in just about every game..and that's good coaching decision. The execution is what sinks, ie. OL letting the RB get hit in the back field, DT not showing up in games, Jay getting injured. BG fumbling everytime he gets hit. Penalties..all those things are practice and players get sloppy in games.
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Since I began my statement with "You know, I really am really having a lot of difficulty understanding why..." that should indicate to the reader that the author of this statement is unclear about something. In this case, it would be confusion about the immediate cause of our defense being ranked 20 something in passing defense.
Next I named several problems with our players. Then you became confused when I called coaching into question. Where the confusion came from, I don't know. Just because you have players making bad plays does not negate bad coaching. The two are not interchangeable. You can actually have both. So yes, Marion and the CBs were caught out of position every once in a while. Missed tackles were a problem. So how does that add up to ranking in the lower half of passing defense in the NFL? I certainly wasn't saying this was a y=Z equation. And I, unlike you am unwilling to say that the problem lies solely on the shoulders of the players. Even you don't believe that.
 
If we don't resign Ogunleye it will be worse. If we keep him it will be around the same. Marion wasn't good last year but I doubt Freeman or Edwards will be much better.
 
It will be the best defense in Dolphins history. :mdfin:

I think the additions in the secondary will make this defense better. B. Marion was a huge weakness back there last year IMO. Freeman / Edwards have better speed, and should change that in 2004. CB R. Howard will also make a big difference. He's a starting caliber CB....

The DL will be great regardless of who's playing DE IMO. Rotating DE's D. Bowens, J. Williams, and O. Grigsby will make up for the loss of O-GUN {if he's traded / holds out}. I also think DT L. Chester is going to be a monster this year. He's looking like a mad man...

LB is actually the weakest position on defense, but it's still pretty solid with back-ups Moore / Jenkins / Bua / Pope in case of emergency. Seau has been better than Rodgers, and he should improve more after a year of getting familiar with the defense. Zach is Zach, and Greenwood has improved with experience. It's not a great LB core, but is good....

PHINZ RULE!!! :cpatch:
 
VanDolPhan said:
The reason we ranked lower in pass protection is purely missed tackles and the fact that we were #2 against the run forcing teams to throw more.
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I think you got the missed takles part right. In actuallity, teams only threw a total of 9 more times last year (529 att) than the year before (520 att).

There were many more 1-5 yds passes, that were taken for more than 10 yds, due to poor tackling... :mad:

It also bares to mention that opponents completed 23 more passes against or defense last year (60% comp) than the year before (56.5% comp)...
 
I predict the Defense won't be as good. The secondary was atrocious because of coaching and coaches playing conservitive on defense. You know they play conservative on offense because it's easy to recognize. But take it from me, they played conservative on defense last year too. Holding our guys back doesn't give them the right frame of mind they need to play with. A prime example is the second NE game. With everything on the line we should have been ready to go for the throat. They came out flat and true they only gave up 3 points but NE defense gave them 7. To make a long story short :woot: I think the O will be better but the D will not be as good and the ST will be better. 11-5
 
ABrownLamp said:
Since I began my statement with "You know, I really am really having a lot of difficulty understanding why..." that should indicate to the reader that the author of this statement is unclear about something. In this case, it would be confusion about the immediate cause of our defense being ranked 20 something in passing defense.
Next I named several problems with our players. Then you became confused when I called coaching into question. Where the confusion came from, I don't know. Just because you have players making bad plays does not negate bad coaching. The two are not interchangeable. You can actually have both. So yes, Marion and the CBs were caught out of position every once in a while. Missed tackles were a problem. So how does that add up to ranking in the lower half of passing defense in the NFL? I certainly wasn't saying this was a y=Z equation. And I, unlike you am unwilling to say that the problem lies solely on the shoulders of the players. Even you don't believe that.
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Yes I do, I haven't seen a game that I can really question the coaching. The games we've loss were player error in most cases...I'm trying to remember a game where I could really question the coaching or preparation.
 
Sherif said:
I predict the Defense won't be as good. The secondary was atrocious because of coaching and coaches playing conservitive on defense. You know they play conservative on offense because it's easy to recognize. But take it from me, they played conservative on defense last year too. Holding our guys back doesn't give them the right frame of mind they need to play with. A prime example is the second NE game. With everything on the line we should have been ready to go for the throat. They came out flat and true they only gave up 3 points but NE defense gave them 7. To make a long story short :woot: I think the O will be better but the D will not be as good and the ST will be better. 11-5
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Holding them back from doing what? don't say blitz, this team can't blitz, they run right into the blockers, check Zach out next time he blitzes.
 
MDFINFAN said:
This doesn't make sense, first you say that the players made bad plays, you actually named some of the problems, ie. players not doing what they're suppose to. Then you say if the coaching is better, wtf..if the players do what they're suppose to do, then you want have a coaching issue...the coaches had nothing to do with missed tackles, CB's letting their man get behind them or Safties doing the same. Obviously they were in position, that's how you know who got beat, Then ya'll go back and say coaching..???? I don't get that, it's like a train, someone says it and it has to be true....Please it's not the coaching, it's the players..they've been in just about every game..and that's good coaching decision. The execution is what sinks, ie. OL letting the RB get hit in the back field, DT not showing up in games, Jay getting injured. BG fumbling everytime he gets hit. Penalties..all those things are practice and players get sloppy in games.
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This team made more than their share of dumb mistakes and mental breakdowns last year. That is the fault of the players. However, the coaching staff MUST take the blame for some excruciatingly dull and unimaginative play calling, on both offense and defense. How often did you see a trick play on offense? The only time I remembered it was when McKnight went 68 yards on the reverse against the Giants. You think that would have given Norv the idea to put more trick plays like that in. Instead, they try the exact same play the very next week and the Jaguars knew it was coming.

Football isn't molecular engineering and I hate when people make it out to be something along those lines. The object should be to totally confuse your opponent and take advantage of his mistakes. That's how a guy like Bill Belichick coaches.I know that is a direct contrast to Jimmy Johnson's philosophy of "beat the ball down their throat even if it's not working and they know it's coming".

As far as defensive coaching, remember last year against Buffalo they lined Jason Taylor up in the "Tiger" position as a roving middle linebacker (ah...brings back memories of A.J. Duhe)? That confused the **** out of Buffalo's offensive line. They never tried anything like that again. Bates' schemes are excruciatingly vanilla (which is a testament to the personnel since Miami is consistently a top ten defense). On the rare occasion when Bates sends a blitz, they are usually read by the offense and picked up easily. That is inexcusable with such great blitzing linebackers like Zach and Junior.

Unfortunately, I believe having a rookie OC in Forester means even more vanilla playcalling on offense.
 
Pope Shula XIV said:
This team made more than their share of dumb mistakes and mental breakdowns last year. That is the fault of the players. However, the coaching staff MUST take the blame for some excruciatingly dull and unimaginative play calling, on both offense and defense. How often did you see a trick play on offense? The only time I remembered it was when McKnight went 68 yards on the reverse against the Giants. You think that would have given Norv the idea to put more trick plays like that in. Instead, they try the exact same play the very next week and the Jaguars knew it was coming.

Football isn't molecular engineering and I hate when people make it out to be something along those lines. The object should be to totally confuse your opponent and take advantage of his mistakes. That's how a guy like Bill Belichick coaches.I know that is a direct contrast to Jimmy Johnson's philosophy of "beat the ball down their throat even if it's not working and they know it's coming".

As far as defensive coaching, remember last year against Buffalo they lined Jason Taylor up in the "Tiger" position as a roving middle linebacker (ah...brings back memories of A.J. Duhe)? That confused the **** out of Buffalo's offensive line. They never tried anything like that again. Bates' schemes are excruciatingly vanilla (which is a testament to the personnel since Miami is consistently a top ten defense). On the rare occasion when Bates sends a blitz, they are usually read by the offense and picked up easily. That is inexcusable with such great blitzing linebackers like Zach and Junior.

Unfortunately, I believe having a rookie OC in Forester means even more vanilla playcalling on offense.
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Miami and trick plays. Mostly Miami wanted to run Ricky, play action and hit the reciever. This generally works pretty good if the QB and reciever can connect. Unfortunately we don't do that part very well, and as a result it left us handing off to Ricky more often, on the other hand NE would like to run the ball, but they didn't do that very well so they do the short passing, pretty predictable if you ask me. They do nothing special except play to their strenght just like us. Thus both teams play pretty even, except their players execute plays more often. We knew exactly what they were going to do each time. If we could pass the ball, I think you would see the O open up. But if you don't trust your passer, you dont' open up and do trick plays all game lone. The reverse work because we dull the D to Ricky, when we did try to throw, the receivers get behind their man and what did we get. The other thing was protection and run blocking, with it being so aweful, what did you really expect? Vanilla kept this team in every game. When we did put something in, it did catch teams off guard, but you know the next team prepared for it. and where do you get off calling Zach a great blitzer, he's never mastered that. He runs right into the blocker. Pleasssse. I agree about the new OC. But if the players show they can do more, we may get more.
 
BLITZKRIEG said:
It will be the best defense in Dolphins history. :mdfin:

I think the additions in the secondary will make this defense better. B. Marion was a huge weakness back there last year IMO. Freeman / Edwards have better speed, and should change that in 2004. CB R. Howard will also make a big difference. He's a starting caliber CB....

The DL will be great regardless of who's playing DE IMO. Rotating DE's D. Bowens, J. Williams, and O. Grigsby will make up for the loss of O-GUN {if he's traded / holds out}. I also think DT L. Chester is going to be a monster this year. He's looking like a mad man...

LB is actually the weakest position on defense, but it's still pretty solid with back-ups Moore / Jenkins / Bua / Pope in case of emergency. Seau has been better than Rodgers, and he should improve more after a year of getting familiar with the defense. Zach is Zach, and Greenwood has improved with experience. It's not a great LB core, but is good....

PHINZ RULE!!! :cpatch:
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Agreed best i hope... the corners need too step up tho!
 
MDFINFAN said:
Yes I do, I haven't seen a game that I can really question the coaching. The games we've loss were player error in most cases...I'm trying to remember a game where I could really question the coaching or preparation.
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You don't question the coaching? Really. Could Wannstead have brought the Panthers or the Patriots to the SuperBowl? Every play on every team is designed to stop the offense. So under your premise, it is always the players' fault if something goes wrong. You make coaching sound so easy. Just draw up some plays, and if the players get beat, it's their fault.
Let's not get into breaking down a point in time where you felt coaching wasn't the problem. Don't act like you would know if it was or it wasn't. If the opposing team does well, then the players get beat. Good coaching or not. You can't sit here and tell me you know it's the players, and absolve Wannstead. Look, I know that the Dolphins screwed up sometimes. But to rank in the lower half of passing defense after 16 games??? That means lack of both preparation and good coaching.
How about this, name one game the Dolphins lost where good coaching was visible.
 
Yes I do, I haven't seen a game that I can really question the coaching. The games we've loss were player error in most cases...I'm trying to remember a game where I could really question the coaching or preparation.
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Just off the top of my head. 2002, week 17 vs. NE. First three quarters, Ricky has like 180 yds and 2 TD's. Fourth quarter, Wannstedt decides that Ricky's not being effective enough, so we start to pass more. Low and behold NE comes back and beats us in OT.
 
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