No love for Daniel Thomas | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

No love for Daniel Thomas

ckparrothead said:
Reggie Bush in 2011 & 2012 took 14 carries for 64 yards on 3rd/4th & 1-2 yards to go. He took 18 carries for 26 yards inside the opponent's 10 yard line. Together that's 32 carries for 90 yards (2.8 YPC). Exclude those and he gained 1982 yards on 411 carries (4.8 YPC).

Lamar Miller in 2012 took 1 carry for 1 yard in these situations, which means excluding them he ran 50 times for 249 yards (5.0 YPC).

Daniel Thomas in 2011 & 2012 took 42 carries for 50 yards (1.2 YPC) in these situations. Excluding them he ran 214 times for 856 yards (4.0 YPC).
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You are leaving out the 1st, and 2nd down and less than 2 yards.

This is important becuase instead of going for the big play our offense decides to slam DT into the line to pick up the 1st down.
The D is waiting for this just like on 3rd and 2. take way those short yardage plays and Dt shoots up to above 4 yards per carry.

If you expect him to be better than a former #2 pick with 6 years experience than i don't know what to tell you.
And Millers attempts are so low that you cant really consider them until he handles a heavier load.

---------- Post added at 04:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:48 PM ----------
ckparrothead said:
And to your point, Reggie Bush only ranks #75 of 108 in yards after contact per carry...which is still higher than Daniel Thomas' #93 of 108 but not very high overall.

Lamar Miller ranks #27 of 108 but it should be noted his 51 carries only barely squeaked him above the 50 carry cutoff.
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Yeah not enough carries for the D to get familair with Miller. Hopefully he can keep up the average when he has to carry the ball 100 times or more.
 
Fins1971 said:
You are leaving out the 1st, and 2nd down and less than 2 yards.
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First off, a 1st & 1 or 1st & 2 is by definition a goal line carry so no, I did not leave those out at all. I just refused to double-count them.

Secondly there's nothing suggesting that a 2nd & 1 or 2nd & 2 run play is going to be a dive that only gains 1 or 2 yards. Reggie Bush, for example, gained 4.1 yards per carry on 2nd & 1-2 yards, and Lamar Miller gained 5.1 yards per carry on 2nd & 1 or 2nd & 2.

This is important becuase instead of going for the big play our offense decides to slam DT into the line to pick up the 1st down.
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Just because a 2nd & 1 or a 2nd & 2 is a run play doesn't mean it's a dive play. I think you've got the wrong perception of play calling on 2nd & Short. Like I said, Reggie Bush gained 4.1 yards per carry and Lamar Miller gained 5.1 yards per carry on those same downs and distances 2nd & 1 or 2nd & 2.

If you expect him to be better than a former #2 pick with 6 years experience than i don't know what to tell you.
And Millers attempts are so low that you cant really consider them until he handles a heavier load.
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You don't have to compare Daniel Thomas to Reggie Bush. You can compare him to just about any back in the league if you want a proper means of evaluating his inadequacy. And with 51 carries under his belt yes absolutely Lamar Miller has enough under the belt to deserve comparison to Daniel Thomas.
 
We could have finally beat the texans 2 years ago but he fumbled the damn ball away.
 
There's nothing special about Daniel Thomas. He doesn't have game breaking speed. He doesn't punish defenders. He isn't a consistent short-yardage guy. His durability is questionable.

We could grab some random free agent running back, who is now working at a supermarket, and that guy could do the same thing as Daniel Thomas.. average 3.5 yds/carry, fumble the ball, then get hurt.

I have nothing against Daniel Thomas. He seems like a good guy. But the only reason he's given so many chances is because of his draft status. Fact is, he's a very unremarkable running back.
 
Fins1971 said:
Easy to say things like that but you better be ready to back them up.

Here are the big free agent running backs from last year with salary and production compared to DT

Green-Ellis to Cincy for 3 year $9M contract ($3M per) 1198 yards from scrimage
Bush to Bears for 4 year $14M contract ($3.5M per) 494 yards from scrimage
Tolbert to Carolina for 4 year $8.4M contract ($2.1M per) 451 yards from scrimage
Hillis to KC for 1 year $3M contract ($3M per) 371 yards from scrimage
Benson to GB for 1 year 825K contract (825K per) 345 yards from scrimage
Grant to GB for 1 year 700K contract (700K per) 161 yards from scrimage

DT drafted by Miami for 4 year 3.2M contract (800K per) Averages 567 yard from scrimage per year

As you can see the Free Agent card very seldom works. The only free agent running back that did better than DT last year was Green Ellis.
And Cincy is paying him 4 time what we are paying DT. The only backs with comparable contract are Grant and benson and there is no way they sign with us for the same price.
Both gave the Packers discounts to be on possible Super Bowl team. So yeah you can replace him with a free agent and probably pay 3 to 4 times as much for the same or lesser production

The number above give a good guideline about the value of Free agent running backs and should help set a price guideline for what to offer Reggie Bush this year.
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I meant a rookie free agent. I think the guy we signed from Notre Dame (Gray?) who was injured his rookie season has as much potential as Thomas, if you want to quote his rookie stats that's fine!
 
Fins1971 said:
The 2 fumbles lost by DT this year were NOT magnified.

The 1st came when we were getting our but kicked by Houston and Dt was actuially knocked out on the play.
The 2nd came against the Jets in the 1st game. The D stopped the Jets and the fumble had no effect on the game.

Big Deal.
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Also I've read multiple people on here saying he runs too upright, that might explain the injuries and fumbles.
 
Fins1971 said:
I really don't understand the hate that Daniel Thomas receives from this sites posters.


The guy was a key part of us scoring TD's in the Red Zone over the last 2 years.
He gets critical yards on the goal-line when no blocking is there.

He was a late 2nd round pick that came to a team with offensive line problems.
What did you expect for him to lead the league in rushing?

I think he has done quite well considering the team he is playing on and the blocking he receives.

Lets compare his production to other backs taken early in the 2011 draft

Round, Pick, Player, Results

1, 28, Mark Ingram, 295 touches, 1151 yards from scrimage, 10 TD's
2, 38, Ryan Williams, 65 touches, 208 yards from scrimage, 0 TD's
2, 56, Shane Vareen, 85 touches, 457 yards from scrimage, 5 TD's
2, 57, Mikel LeShoure, 249 touches, 1012 yards from scrimage, 9 TD's
2, 62, Daniel Thomas, 283 touches, 1134 yards from scrimage, 5 TD's
3, 71, Demarco Murray, 385 touches, 1990 yards from scrimage, 6 TD's
3, 93, Stevan Ridley, 386 touches, 1768 yards from scrimage, 13 TD's
3, 96, Alex Green, 157 touches, 606 yards from scrimage, 0 TD's
4, 105, Roy Helo, 209 touches, 1066 yards from scrimage, 3 TD's
4, 115, Kendall Hunter, 209 touches, 1099 yeard from scrimage, 4 TD's

So, Thomas being the 5th back taken in the draft has the 4th most yards, and 5th most TD's playing on a team with bad blocking.
And we have him under contract for the next 2 years on the cheap.

He is part of the solution for the next few years and not the problem. He is not going anywhere so get used to him being a Fin.



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If he has fumbling problems again next season he'll be gone quicker than one can say Legadu Naanee.
 
Fins1971 said:
The 1st came when we were getting our butts kicked by Houston and Dt was actuially knocked out on the play.
The 2nd came against the Jets in the 1st game. The D stopped the Jets and the fumble had no effect on the game.
The 3rd was recovered by the Dolphins.

What season did you guys watch?

---------- Post added at 04:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------



If anyone runs like a puss on the team its Reggie Bush. Dancing around if there is any contact in the hole.
DT runs into it. He rarely breaks out the other side but he runs into the wall like a man.
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Fumble had no affect on the game? Pretty sure it killed a Miami scoring opportunity, changed field position, killed whatever momentum they had and gave the jets momentum...Yeah the fumble had no affect.
 
normaldude said:
There's nothing special about Daniel Thomas. He doesn't have game breaking speed. He doesn't punish defenders. He isn't a consistent short-yardage guy. His durability is questionable.

We could grab some random free agent running back, who is now working at a supermarket, and that guy could do the same thing as Daniel Thomas.. average 3.5 yds/carry, fumble the ball, then get hurt.

I have nothing against Daniel Thomas. He seems like a good guy. But the only reason he's given so many chances is because of his draft status. Fact is, he's a very unremarkable running back.
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Literally. DuJuan Harris was selling cars a while ago. Now he's the starting tailback on a team that might well go to the Super Bowl.

---------- Post added at 08:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 PM ----------
Irishfinfan1 said:
Also I've read multiple people on here saying he runs too upright, that might explain the injuries and fumbles.
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Hoops made a good call on that one prior to the Draft. He liked the talent but thought he'd never stay healthy as he runs so upright he provides too much target for defenders. He was right on about the injury risk.
 
Fins1971 said:
You are leaving out the 1st, and 2nd down and less than 2 yards.

This is important becuase instead of going for the big play our offense decides to slam DT into the line to pick up the 1st down.
The D is waiting for this just like on 3rd and 2. take way those short yardage plays and Dt shoots up to above 4 yards per carry.

If you expect him to be better than a former #2 pick with 6 years experience than i don't know what to tell you.
And Millers attempts are so low that you cant really consider them until he handles a heavier load.

---------- Post added at 04:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:48 PM ----------



Yeah not enough carries for the D to get familair with Miller. Hopefully he can keep up the average when he has to carry the ball 100 times or more.
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Yea when DT went out this year and Bush had to take his load on short yardage situations his yards per attempt went way down and came close to DT which is why I believe that they both run the same style while Bush has the most talent but neither are bangers and work better catching then running out of the backfield with DT the superior blocker.
 
2 issues, he is not second round talent and he can't stay healthy......My issues are more with Ireland selecting him in the 2nd than Thomas. Also no hate for him, just wish he could stay on the field.
 
He looked good in his rookie year when he wasn't hurt - he's regressed a lot since then.
 
Fins1971 said:
Daniel Thomas had 5 fumbles
Ridley has 5 fumbles.
Murray has 4 fumbles.
LeShoure has 3 fumbles.
Hunter has 2 fumbles
Ingram has 2 fumbles.

DT is right there with all the other back on fumbles. 1 fumble every 57 touches.

A couple of those fumbles were on hits that causes a fumble no matter who is carrying.
He was knocked out on one of them.
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Ridley and Murray did have 100 more carries.
 
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