Old Topic, but Espn Insider's take on what happened trading to #19. | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Old Topic, but Espn Insider's take on what happened trading to #19.

ckparrothead

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The Dolphins were in a unique position heading into the draft. After addressing their needs at wide receiver (David Boston) and quarterback (<A.J. Feeley) in the offseason, the Dolphins had one major objective; draft the best available offensive lineman in the first round.

Some may say that the Dolphins gave up too much (fourth-round pick) to the Vikings just to move up one spot, but we have been told by credible sources that the Patriots were also looking to trade into the Vikings' position at No. 19 for Vernon Carey, which would have been disastrous for the Dolphins after Arkansas OT Shawn Andrews was already swept up by the Eagles, who traded up to the 16th pick to get him.

There is no question that the Dolphins would have liked to come away with more than six players -- and more than one player from the first day -- from the '04 draft, but for an organization that is built to win now, finding an upgrade at right tackle in Carey was critical. Now the Dolphins can plug Carey in at the starting right tackle spot opposite Wade Smith, who should be much improved in his second season.

The Dolphins have very good depth at the tackle positions with the offseason acquisitions of John St. Clair (Rams) and Damion McIntosh (Chargers). They have an upgrade at left guard with Jeno James and are also expecting Seth McKinney to be a solid starting center. The position that is still left up for grabs is right guard, but at least the team will have good competition at that spot between Taylor Whitley (3rd-round pick last year), Greg Jerman and St. Clair, who does have some experience playing inside. The team also improved its depth at center with its sixth-round selection of Rex Hadnot, and guard/tackle with its seventh-round selection of Tony Pape.

USC DC Will Poole may turn out to be one of the steals of the draft as a fourth-round pick. His poor workout and character concerns resulted in him dropping from possibly a late-first-round pick to a fourth-round selection, but he improved his workout time in a second workout that very few NFL officials attended after he was sick for 10 days and disappointed at his first workout.

Furthermore, his character issues date back several years to when he started out at Boston College and, from what we've been told, he more than learned his lesson and really showed a lot of maturity during his senior season at USC. The Dolphins are obviously set next season at the cornerback position with Patrick Surtain and Sam Madison as starters, but neither is getting any younger and we think Poole can give Reggie Howard a run for his money as the team's nickel cornerback next season.

Finally, while DS Tony Bua and OLB Derrick Pope will probably never be starters in the NFL, both play the game with terrific intensity, consistency, instincts and passion, which is why they are likely to make the Dolphins' roster as special teams players.



I wouldn't call this THE final vindication, but I would say that the scales should be tipped sufficiently now such that dolfans shouldn't be pissed at the trade anymore. If you hear it from enough sources, even if by some chance the Patriots wouldn't have actually moved, the possibility remained so strong that you can't possibly blame Spielman for pulling the trigger.
 
Well it was a bit shocking when it happened, but with the need being so great and depth at the tackle position in the draft being so poor it was a good move to make sure our line was set.
 
We'll never know. Everyone repeats the same rumors so quantity doesn't mean accuracy. But, there was certainly room here to believe that Carey might have been gone.
 
Oh, also, maybe someone can enlighten me. What's "DC" and "DS"? I thought Poole was a CB or DB. Is that a defensive corner?
 
It doesn't wash IMO. The Vikings clearly stated publicly without the need of inside sources that they were afraid to trade the pick to anyone else because they trusted the Dolphins to not pick the player they wanted.

Spielman just got clipped for a fourth round pick.
 
Yup. It seems obvious to me that Carey was the highest rated OL on the board and by far the best option at OT. Well worth trading up for if we're sure he can start.
 
bigmiamifan said:
Oh, also, maybe someone can enlighten me. What's "DC" and "DS"? I thought Poole was a CB or DB. Is that a defensive corner?

Defensive corner and defensive safety. Same thing.
 
It doesn't wash IMO. The Vikings clearly stated publicly without the need of inside sources that they were afraid to trade the pick to anyone else because they trusted the Dolphins to not pick the player they wanted.

Spielman just got clipped for a fourth round pick.

They could easily have had the Patriots make the same promise they had us make. Then they would have just had to worry about the Phins taking Udeze...and the Vikings didn't think it was all that likely the Phins would take Udeze because what they made us promise is that we won't trade the pick away to someone ELSE who wants Udeze.
 
ckparrothead said:
They could easily have had the Patriots make the same promise they had us make. Then they would have just had to worry about the Phins taking Udeze...and the Vikings didn't think it was all that likely the Phins would take Udeze because what they made us promise is that we won't trade the pick away to someone ELSE who wants Udeze.

If the Vikes traded the pick to the Pats, then any "promise" we had with Minnesota would have been null and void. What Merman is saying (I think) is that Spielman could have told the Vikes "if you trade the pick to the Pats and they take Carey, we will trade out of #20 with someone that will take Udeze".

That kind of hardball should have prevented the Vikes from trading down (with us or or the Pats), in which case they simply would have selected Udeze at #19.

Point is, Speilman did have SOME leverage (the knowledge that the Vikes WANTED Udeze), but he didnt use it while negotiating. Im not mad at the deal, but I do think he got played to an extent. It happens sometimes in the heat of the draft.
 
Play hardball like that and you could just end up gettin played. Vikes could have passed on Udeze easily. He wasn't as important to them considering his injury problems as Carey was to us.
 
Does not matter to me know, we have Carey and I like the pics we selected. I am fine with this years draft, hopefully they turn out to be productive players in the future.
 
The good thing about the Dolphins trade is that the Dolphins got Carey and the Patriots didn't. The Vikes used that 4th rounder to take RB Mewelde Moore...which would have likely fallen to the Patsies without that trade. Cobbs is strickly a runner...where Moore would have been an solid receiver option out of the backfield.

"...Rumours abound that the only offensive lineman Belichick cared only one slight iota about was Vernon Carey. When he went to Miami at 19, Belichick likely gave up any will to try and draft an offensive lineman..."

http://www.patsfans.com/bob/display_story.php?story_id=2434
 
ckparrothead said:
They could easily have had the Patriots make the same promise they had us make. Then they would have just had to worry about the Phins taking Udeze...and the Vikings didn't think it was all that likely the Phins would take Udeze because what they made us promise is that we won't trade the pick away to someone ELSE who wants Udeze.

It's a little late now to give an article for reference but Rob Brezinski the Viks GM was quoted in the Sun Sentinel or one of the Minn papers as saying they "only trusted the Dolphins to make that promise." Tice was also quoted as saying after that trade they tried to do another but didn't want to push their luck.

All Spielman would have had to say was you know we will take Udeze or just call his bluff. Spielman didn't.

He got the player he wanted but got clipped. Hoodwinked or what ever you want to call it.

You also can't get away from the fact that a First and Fourth was paid for Carey. If you like it fine. If it makes you feel better to think that Spielman didn't give too much or wasn't bluffed out a fourth round pick that's fine too.

The fact is Spielman thinks it was a win over the Patriots who didn't draft a lineman at all. At least that was what was printed in the Miami press. I know the arguement is there was no one left after Carey but the Patriots didn't take a lineman in the whole rest of the draft. If a lineman was so important one would have to have been taken with as many picks as they had. Also if the Patriots did have a major hole in their DL. Didn't many also think that Wilfork was a better player than Carey???
 
With more time I did find the article. I just had to register to access an old article. This is not the whole article only the pertinent parts.

Sitting on the clock Saturday during the first round of the NFL draft, victory already seemed at hand: A player they coveted still was available. All that remained was to make the selection.

And yet, there was a chance for more. ...

Studwell spoke with the confidence of a man who got his cake and ate it, too. When the day began, the Vikings had identified a group of five targeted players they thought might be available at the No. 19 pick: linebacker D.J. Williams, offensive lineman Vernon Carey, defensive linemen Will Smith and Udeze, and receiver Michael Clayton.

The Vikings preferred Smith first, followed closely by Udeze. And after the Denver Broncos selected Williams with 17th pick, the Vikings knew they would get one of the defensive linemen.

The phone then began to ring in earnest. As New Orleans took Smith with the No. 18 pick, several teams called the Vikings in hopes of moving to the No. 19 spot.

New England, Seattle, and Dallas all inquired. Miami -- which coveted Carey -- offered the safest bet and the only choice that ensured Udeze's availability. ....

A final, frightening scenario wafted through the draft room before the deal was finalized: What if the Dolphins traded the No. 19 pick to a team that wanted Udeze? The Vikings would have gained the extra pick but missed out on a player that would have filled one of their most critical positions.

Such a mistake would have emptied the egg cartons of every Vikings fan in the Midwest. It was something Rob Brzezinski, the Vikings vice president of football operations, didn't want to consider.

So Brzezinski, who worked in the Dolphins' front office for six years before joining the Vikings in 1999, made one final demand: Dolphins General Manager Rick Spielman had to pledge not to trade the pick -- a request for honesty during the most nefarious weekend of the NFL year.

Spielman agreed, and the Vikings agreed to the deal. Brzezinski said he probably would not have done so with any other team, and Tice added: "They gave us their word . . . and then and only then were we comfortable making the trade.".....

http://www.startribune.com/stories/510/4741198.html
 
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