PFT: Ryan Mallet "Almost Certain" to fall out of first round

[ckparrothead]

Flacco has zero ability to move. I think he could be the most overrated QB in the league right now. Mallett is better than Flacco right now IMHO just because I think he is more accurate. Neither is accurate when forced to move, but Mallett is younger and therefore he still could improve in this area. Again, if Mallett improves with his footwork and his accuracy when being forced to move, he will be one of the very best in this league.

Also notice that Baltimore continues to win and make the playoffs with Flacco as their QB. I see no reason that the phins couldnt draft Mallett and make the playoffs next season with him at QB. He is an instant upgrade to what we have at the position and it has been outlined all year how we easily win 3 or 4 more games this last year with any kind of decent player at QB.

I agree with this, although I disagree on some of your particulars with respect to Mallett's game. I'm not sure Mallett is more accurate than Flacco. But, he also has much, much more serious character concerns flying around him. Flacco can rub people the wrong way. Mallett slaps them in the face with wrongness.

 

[WVDolphan]

I'm pretty sure the "Marino on cocaine" rumor only came out the day before the draft and was later proven to be false, back in a day when teams did not do as much to investigate the backgrounds of prospects.

The rumor that Mallet is on cocaine (I've actually even heard it's possibly worse, that it's meth in addition to cocaine and pot) has been around for months. And if it's true, rather than just a rumor, then that's a big deal.

The logic that Marino was rumored to be on cocaine so it's okay that Mallet is rumored to be on cocaine is ridiculous at best.

Not what Im suggesting. Its definately a red flag. Im just suggesting its a somewhat similar situation. Im also suggesting that if this kid falls to late first round or beyond because of this, that we need to make a move and swoop in and get him.

 

[RobertHorry]

He has the arm strength, no doubt. But having the arm and being able to make the throws are totally different things. He cant hit a corner route or any deep route that requires any touch. Thats just what I saw every week.

No. What you saw was a player who was in the middle of terrible QB coaching.

Let me give you an example. Theres something in football that Quarterbacks most of the time (unless your Aaron Rodgers) need to effectively do in their throws, and that is weight transfer. Weight transfer gives the quarterback to make throws they want to make with the right velocity,distance, accuracy, etc. One of the first things that should be noticed is the QB's weight transfer. You want to make sure he's stepping into his throws and there is a forward weight transfer. You don't want QBs throwing flat-footed or with a backwards weight transfer or no weight transfer at all. If you get any of the latter, you get a wounded duck, a one-hop throw, a pass way too short, or even way overthrown. You also don't want QBs stepping in a direction other than the direction they want to throw. The next thing that has to happen with the throw is that the arm must be in sync with the body and the weight transfer.

Henne in his first year starting had good weight transfer on many of his throws. The stepping was in the right direction and his arm was in sync with the body and weight transfer as well.

Then his second year? He had terrible weight transfer throughout the season. It wasn't good at all. It certainly has to do with your trust in your offensive line to think you will be protected when you weight transfer in the pocket, but it has to do with coaching as welll. But as a result we saw throws that one hopped on 5-10 yard outs. Throws that had one hopped or fell extremely short on 10 yard curls. Throws Henne made last year.

 

[WVDolphan]

I agree with this, although I disagree on some of your particulars with respect to Mallett's game. I'm not sure Mallett is more accurate than Flacco. But, he also has much, much more serious character concerns flying around him. Flacco can rub people the wrong way. Mallett slaps them in the face with wrongness.

So Mallett is a prick.....big deal. I mean, dont get me wrong, Im not suggesting its a positive. But, if Ben Roethischoker were available in the draft this year, would people really be bringing his character up and acting like the first team on the board needing a QB wouldnt select him? Carolina would already have the card filled out with his name on it.

Im not trying to say that Mallett is the same talent of Big Ben or that they have the exact same character flaws, Im just saying character flaws are just that. And so long as this dude isnt OJ Simpson, I dont see how it should stop a team from drafting him if they think he has the talent to be a good NFL QB. Besides, it seems these days half of the players in this league have serious character issues. Even several of the good QBs are caught up in BS lately.

If character was so much of a concern, its even more reason we shouldve drafted Matt Ryan when we had the chance. He is a total dork.

 

[RobertHorry]

Exactly.

RobertHorry you are an overall good poster. So I will not take the fact that you are so lost on this one particular aspect of the game(Chad Henne's skills) and say you arent a good poster.

Dude.....I said deadly accurate. That isnt Chad Henne. Just because his scouting report initially was similar dosent make it true. Chad Henne simply isnt accurate at all, much less deadly accurate.

Yes, its true if Henne were truly an accurate passer, he would be very similar to Mallett and the things I said about Mallett would be an almost identical breakdown of Henne. But, the thing is Henne isnt accurate at all. He throws the ball all over the place. Just because occasionally he will hit a nice throw and he certainly has the arm strength in terms of velocity to match Mallett, dosent make them the same.

Now while they are very much the same in terms of poor footwork, not knowing where to move within the pocket, and making poor throws/decisions when forced to do so, dosent make them the same player. Thats as far as it goes. The key differences are that Mallett still hasnt entered the league so you can actually have hope that with the right tutor, he can develope those skills. Chad Henne has been in this league 3 years now and Im sorry, but he hasnt even come close to improving in this area so I have zero hope that he ever will.

That difference along with the fact that Mallett is truly accurate and not just said to be accurate just because he stands tall and fires the ball hard. Again, check out some of the throws this kid makes game in and game out where a receiver is pretty well covered, yet Mallett throws the thing on a ****ing dime from like 30 yards away. And he does this to all areas of the field.....seems, down the sidelines, whatever. He also has the ability to throw guys open in these situations, which is critical in the NFL. Just look at some of the lasers Rodgers threw in the playoffs on some of those skinny posts. How bout that throw he made on 3rd and 10 to Jennings on that last drive in the Super Bowl? Thats the throws Im talking about. Mallett can actually make those things. Mallett has the skills and the guts to make such throws, Chad Henne does not.

I can't agree with that. Henne does have the guts to make the throw, but something happened. Coaching, fear, whatever, something happened this past year. Do you remember the skinny post throw he made against the Jaguars last year? That was double coverage on the money, perfect location. Tampa Bay. He threw a perfect back should pass down the sideline to Bess last year. Same thing with to Ted Ginn in the Patriots game. A 20 yard strike on the sideline on the money. As the year progressed and this year started and progressed he went further and further away from that, not forcing anything and making sure everything was wide open before throwing it. Now I know he still is bad with footwork and ball location and his eyes, but I am completely baffled at the aspect we are talking about.

 

[WVDolphan]

you can win a championship with joe flacco...i was at the ravens game in person and saw just how much pressure and how many hits we put on him and he kept making plays...he did throw one ill advised ball off a quick read that sean smith should have been able to catch and take the other way for 6 but i think that was more about the qb and wr not being on the same page on the route than anything else...i don't recall any pressure being in his face...

i'll take a joe flacco any day...he's not elite but he's good enough to win with

wv...you also thought aaron rodgers was overrated as i recall...

i do agree mallets an instant upgrade and probably could be thrown into the fire from the get go...

Good post and you got me on the Rodgers thing. I definately said he was overrated. Wow was I wrong. The dude went into straight beast mode down the stretch and into the playoffs. I couldnt have been more impressed with some of the throws he made. And his ability to move when needed and even scramble from time to time for key first downs or TDs was something I completely overlooked. Rodgers is certainly the real deal and I now place him right there with Brady, Manning, and Rivers to make up the top 4 QBs in the league. Its not as if I thought he was a bum or anything before hand though. I did have him in the top 10 for sure and I think I had him just behind Brees and a couple guys for somewhere around 7.

 

[Tunaphish429]

So Mallett is a prick.....big deal. I mean, dont get me wrong, Im not suggesting its a positive. But, if Ben Roethischoker were available in the draft this year, would people really be bringing his character up and acting like the first team on the board needing a QB wouldnt select him? Carolina would already have the card filled out with his name on it.

Im not trying to say that Mallett is the same talent of Big Ben or that they have the exact same character flaws, Im just saying character flaws are just that. And so long as this dude isnt OJ Simpson, I dont see how it should stop a team from drafting him if they think he has the talent to be a good NFL QB. Besides, it seems these days half of the players in this league have serious character issues. Even several of the good QBs are caught up in BS lately.

If character was so much of a concern, its even more reason we shouldve drafted Matt Ryan when we had the chance. He is a total dork.

Not saying Mallet has character issues.. But they are red flags for not taking to coaching and just getting into troulbe in a general way.
Can he be good if he has character issues? Of course, but when your coaching you want a player that is going to support you and the team. Not a guy who is disses you.

 

[hoops]

Good post and you got me on the Rodgers thing. I definately said he was overrated. Wow was I wrong. The dude went into straight beast mode down the stretch and into the playoffs. I couldnt have been more impressed with some of the throws he made. And his ability to move when needed and even scramble from time to time for key first downs or TDs was something I completely overlooked. Rodgers is certainly the real deal and I now place him right there with Brady, Manning, and Rivers to make up the top 4 QBs in the league. Its not as if I thought he was a bum or anything before hand though. I did have him in the top 10 for sure and I think I had him just behind Brees and a couple guys for somewhere around 7.

cane's the one that said he was playoff trash...i spit up food laughing at that one...especially after he threw for 400 plus yards and 4 tds in his only playoff appearance up until then last year...

i still say though that joe flacco has enough talent where you can hang banners with him...

 

[Mr. Magoo]

Not what Im suggesting. Its definately a red flag. Im just suggesting its a somewhat similar situation. Im also suggesting that if this kid falls to late first round or beyond because of this, that we need to make a move and swoop in and get him.

I honestly don't think the situations are very similar, for the reasons I outlined.

There's a big difference to me between "character concerns" and "eligibility concerns." If a guy is a prick but he works at the game and wins (Ben Roethlisberger), then you live with that. Some guys don't even really have to work at it to win.

But if a guy can't stay on the field because a) he's injury prone, or b) he runs afoul of the league's substance abuse policy, then that is a very different and much more serious matter.

 

[WVDolphan]

I can't agree with that. Henne does have the guts to make the throw, but something happened. Coaching, fear, whatever, something happened this past year. Do you remember the skinny post throw he made against the Jaguars last year? That was double coverage on the money, perfect location. Tampa Bay. He threw a perfect back should pass down the sideline to Bess last year. Same thing with to Ted Ginn in the Patriots game. A 20 yard strike on the sideline on the money. As the year progressed and this year started and progressed he went further and further away from that, not forcing anything and making sure everything was wide open before throwing it. Now I know he still is bad with footwork and ball location and his eyes, but I am completely baffled at the aspect we are talking about.

Yea, he made some of those throws ON OCCASIONS. Im talking about making those throws consistantly. Chad Henne does not. Therefore he is not accurate. Mallett can and will make those throws with much more regularity. Thats the biggest key in seperating the good QBs from the bad QBs in this league.

I can go out onto a golf course and because of the fact Im a large man with a fair amount of strength, punish a tee shot. If I hit the thing square, not only will it travel a great distance, but it will go where Im trying to make it go. If someone sees me do this, one of the few times I actually do it, and it happens to be the only time they ever see me hit, they may think.....damn, that dude has some skills. But, the reality is, if they hang around for all 18 holes, they are going to see that I blow at golf. Why? Because Im not consistant with hitting accurate shots.

You have been around for all 18 holes with Chad Henne. And yet you still think just because he hit a couple of beautiful tee shots that good coaching is going to be the difference in him hitting those shots on the regular and not the 15 tee shots he hit that either landed in the tall grass, bunkers, or went OB. Heres the bad news brah........it isnt.

Chad Henne is what he is. An inconsistant, inaccaruate thrower of the football who when pressured has zero abililty to move inside or outside of the pocket and makes horrible decisions and or throws when either pressured, forced to move, or when its a pressure situation. In fact, he will occasionally make horrible throws and or decisions when there isnt any pressure at all. He simply isnt consistantly accurate with his throws. And when you throw in his footwork problems, it makes him a huge liability out there on the field to the team he is playing for. He is just a very bad NFL QB.

 

[ckparrothead]

FWIW I absolutely see the similarities when you're talking about Mallett versus Henne. Chad Henne is not a leader, and I suspect that if you asked players around Arkansas they would say the same about Mallett. In hindsight, to see a guy that was entering his 2nd year as a starting QB, with everyone assuming he was the QB of the future, not even be elected by the team as a captain...was a HUGE red flag. Mallett and Henne both have great arms and they both are accurate. I don't get this "Henne couldn't hit the broad side of a barn" BS. That's just people using their emotion to cloud their evaluation. Henne's accurate with the ball, as Bill Polian said coming out of the Draft, Chad Henne was probably the best pure thrower in that Draft (which means arm strength and accuracy quotient). Strictly speaking, Chad Henne is not an awful athlete, and neither is Ryan Mallett. Henne ran a 4.92 in the 40 and had some decent shuttle and cone numbers, that kind of thing. Josh Freeman only ran a 4.90 in the 40 yard dash. Henne's pure athleticism isn't the reason for his sluggish feet. Same can be said of Mallett. They both have trouble when forced to make throws on the move or from bad leverage. They're both questionable screen throwers (which requires throwing the ball with touch while backing up). They both throw with mediocre (at best) anticipation. They both have questionable ball placement on short passes. They both regularly beat the blitz with their arms.

But there are also a couple of key differences that make me conclude that Ryan Mallett is a BETTER version of Chad Henne. Just because they compare stylistically doesn't mean their careers will be the same.

Ryan Mallett is infinitely more aggressive than Chad Henne with his throws, and that is a HUGE problem in Chad Henne's game. Henne's never really been aggressive with the ball even in college. Being more aggressive like Mallett is can get you into trouble...but so too can being too conservative. Notice how many interceptions Henne had this year. How many of those were "not his fault"? You know WHY you get so many interceptions that end up not looking totally like the QB's fault? Because your so NOT aggressive, and the passing offense plays so tight and predictable, that defenses are reading you and making the margin for error extraordinarily slim. I mean the number of interceptions Henne threw that were purely his brain farts is actually pretty low. But that's not necessarily a good thing. If I have a quarterback that threw 15 interceptions, it's a better sign for me if a good 12 of them could be laid at his feet for being too aggressive and the like...as opposed to a QB that threw 15 picks and only 5 of them were REALLY his fault.

Another difference is, Ryan Mallett is taller, sees the field better, and much more willing to work out of the shotgun. He will be the type of QB you have sitting back in the shotgun 55 or 60% of passing plays, and that's a good thing. Chad Henne has the dubious honor of not liking shotgun because he has to take his eyes off the defense, and ALSO not really liking play-action passes (which he showed by being three or four times more likely to throw an interception on play-action than non-play-action).

The difference on the negative side is this stuff on the cocaine and whatnot. He just can't seem to shake those rumors, and so they might be true. And Magoo is right, this isn't to be compared with a rumor that flashed around the NFL only a few days before the Draft about Dan Marino. This is a rumor that has persisted for months and that some people feel they have confirmed.

Call me naive but I think even if he has done coke before, that's kind of overblown as long as he's not still doing it. Brett Favre had a very heavy pain killer addiction. That is NOT any different. ESPN regularly sucks his d-ck as do most coaches, GMs and former players. Just saying. I've known people that have done some coke a few times in their life, it's not like their lives mirror the movie Train Spotting. And if Mallett has done that and been seen doing it (such as at a party), it's easy to see why the rumors won't die.

 

[ckparrothead]

So Mallett is a prick.....big deal. I mean, dont get me wrong, Im not suggesting its a positive. But, if Ben Roethischoker were available in the draft this year, would people really be bringing his character up and acting like the first team on the board needing a QB wouldnt select him? Carolina would already have the card filled out with his name on it.

Im not trying to say that Mallett is the same talent of Big Ben or that they have the exact same character flaws, Im just saying character flaws are just that. And so long as this dude isnt OJ Simpson, I dont see how it should stop a team from drafting him if they think he has the talent to be a good NFL QB. Besides, it seems these days half of the players in this league have serious character issues. Even several of the good QBs are caught up in BS lately.

If character was so much of a concern, its even more reason we shouldve drafted Matt Ryan when we had the chance. He is a total dork.

I've already said the same about Ben Rapistberger and Mike Vick, many times. I was just differentiating between the two.

 

[WVDolphan]

Not saying Mallet has character issues.. But they are red flags for not taking to coaching and just getting into troulbe in a general way.
Can he be good if he has character issues? Of course, but when your coaching you want a player that is going to support you and the team. Not a guy who is disses you.

You mean like Brandon Marshall?

Anyways, if you watched the Alabama vs. Arkansas game, they did a nice little feature on Mallett and how he has worked on some of these things. I forget who it was, but someone was helping him with these issues and he had been reading some literature and developing some kind of system(it wasnt buddism or anything but a similar concept) to help him out. From what he and the coaches were saying, it seemed to have helped.

 

[RobertHorry]

Yea, he made some of those throws ON OCCASIONS. Im talking about making those throws consistantly. Chad Henne does not. Therefore he is not accurate. Mallett can and will make those throws with much more regularity. Thats the biggest key in seperating the good QBs from the bad QBs in this league.

I can go out onto a golf course and because of the fact Im a large man with a fair amount of strength, punish a tee shot. If I hit the thing square, not only will it travel a great distance, but it will go where Im trying to make it go. If someone sees me do this, one of the few times I actually do it, and it happens to be the only time they ever see me hit, they may think.....damn, that dude has some skills. But, the reality is, if they hang around for all 18 holes, they are going to see that I blow at golf. Why? Because Im not consistant with hitting accurate shots.

You have been around for all 18 holes with Chad Henne. And yet you still think just because he hit a couple of beautiful tee shots that good coaching is going to be the difference in him hitting those shots on the regular and not the 15 tee shots he hit that either landed in the tall grass, bunkers, or went OB. Heres the bad news brah........it isnt.

Chad Henne is what he is. An inconsistant, inaccaruate thrower of the football who when pressured has zero abililty to move inside or outside of the pocket and makes horrible decisions and or throws when either pressured, forced to move, or when its a pressure situation. In fact, he will occasionally make horrible throws and or decisions when there isnt any pressure at all. He simply isnt consistantly accurate with his throws. And when you throw in his footwork problems, it makes him a huge liability out there on the field to the team he is playing for. He is just a very bad NFL QB.

Thats funny because he did well against the blitz when his wideouts can get off the press and get open in ample time. Last year? Did well against blitzes when teams tried to blitz him. This year? When teams blitzed him at the beginning he was able to go to Marshall consistently or Bess. Towards the middle and latter? Teams knew that when you blitz the Dolphins, you bracket Bess and or double team Marshall against a beat up o-line. The Dolphins had 3 bums that couldn't get open if 10000 bilions dollars depended on it agains the blitz. Then you had Ricky and Ronnie deciding to miss block and Henne calling out the wrong protection on some plays. Beating pressure and blitzes is just as much as the WRs/RBs/O-line as it is the QB. In fact once the play is hiked I believe its more of the WRs than the QBs as they have to identify they are the hot read and know where to sit or be.

Henne did poorly this year I agree, but on the other hand I haven't seen in quite some time an inexperienced QB get as little help as possible as he did from his surrounding cast and coaching. Whether it be having two old RBs with no open space ability or burst, a TE that is adequate at route running but has no seam-busting ability, absolutely the worst depth at TE (Although Shuler is a decent prospect), One WR he had good chemistry with (Bess) and another he was building it with until he got out for the season (Hartline), a Dive WR he had no chemistry with, and 2 BUMS in Wallace and Moore that he had no chemistry with. You put on top of that zero speed at any position to break cushioning against DBs and give the QB space to throw to with a beat-up inexperienced O-Line, it was a disgusting sight to see. You add into the top a tight, no-mistake, predictable offense with Henne's penchant for throwing conservative picks is a recipe for disaster. He had like minimal "actual Henne mistakes" and more conservative picks.

 

[WVDolphan]

FWIW I absolutely see the similarities when you're talking about Mallett versus Henne. Chad Henne is not a leader, and I suspect that if you asked players around Arkansas they would say the same about Mallett. In hindsight, to see a guy that was entering his 2nd year as a starting QB, with everyone assuming he was the QB of the future, not even be elected by the team as a captain...was a HUGE red flag. Mallett and Henne both have great arms and they both are accurate. I don't get this "Henne couldn't hit the broad side of a barn" BS. That's just people using their emotion to cloud their evaluation. Henne's accurate with the ball, as Bill Polian said coming out of the Draft, Chad Henne was probably the best pure thrower in that Draft (which means arm strength and accuracy quotient). Strictly speaking, Chad Henne is not an awful athlete, and neither is Ryan Mallett. Henne ran a 4.92 in the 40 and had some decent shuttle and cone numbers, that kind of thing. Josh Freeman only ran a 4.90 in the 40 yard dash. Henne's pure athleticism isn't the reason for his sluggish feet. Same can be said of Mallett. They both have trouble when forced to make throws on the move or from bad leverage. They're both questionable screen throwers (which requires throwing the ball with touch while backing up). They both throw with mediocre (at best) anticipation. They both have questionable ball placement on short passes. They both regularly beat the blitz with their arms.

But there are also a couple of key differences that make me conclude that Ryan Mallett is a BETTER version of Chad Henne. Just because they compare stylistically doesn't mean their careers will be the same.

Ryan Mallett is infinitely more aggressive than Chad Henne with his throws, and that is a HUGE problem in Chad Henne's game. Henne's never really been aggressive with the ball even in college. Being more aggressive like Mallett is can get you into trouble...but so too can being too conservative. Notice how many interceptions Henne had this year. How many of those were "not his fault"? You know WHY you get so many interceptions that end up not looking totally like the QB's fault? Because your so NOT aggressive, and the passing offense plays so tight and predictable, that defenses are reading you and making the margin for error extraordinarily slim. I mean the number of interceptions Henne threw that were purely his brain farts is actually pretty low. But that's not necessarily a good thing. If I have a quarterback that threw 15 interceptions, it's a better sign for me if a good 12 of them could be laid at his feet for being too aggressive and the like...as opposed to a QB that threw 15 picks and only 5 of them were REALLY his fault.

Another difference is, Ryan Mallett is taller, sees the field better, and much more willing to work out of the shotgun. He will be the type of QB you have sitting back in the shotgun 55 or 60% of passing plays, and that's a good thing. Chad Henne has the dubious honor of not liking shotgun because he has to take his eyes off the defense, and ALSO not really liking play-action passes (which he showed by being three or four times more likely to throw an interception on play-action than non-play-action).

The difference on the negative side is this stuff on the cocaine and whatnot. He just can't seem to shake those rumors, and so they might be true. And Magoo is right, this isn't to be compared with a rumor that flashed around the NFL only a few days before the Draft about Dan Marino. This is a rumor that has persisted for months and that some people feel they have confirmed.

Call me naive but I think even if he has done coke before, that's kind of overblown as long as he's not still doing it. Brett Favre had a very heavy pain killer addiction. That is NOT any different. ESPN regularly sucks his d-ck as do most coaches, GMs and former players. Just saying. I've known people that have done some coke a few times in their life, it's not like their lives mirror the movie Train Spotting. And if Mallett has done that and been seen doing it (such as at a party), it's easy to see why the rumors won't die.

Thats just a great post with a ton of good points, especially in the middle paragraphs. However, I respectfully disagree with you that Chad Henne is an accurate thrower of the football.

But, those are great points about how being non agressive with your throws and decisions can actually lead to more turnovers because the defense knows what to expect and you minimize your margin for error that way. Very true. If a guy is stepping back and firing and the ball is coming out quick on almost every play, you keep the defense on its heels. They arent sure where its coming, they just know its coming. Therefore a ball would have to be misfired and thrown right into the defenses hands for it to be intercepted, and even then a lot of those passes defenders drop because they come up on them hot and the reaction time makes it tough for a defender to catch.