SI.com: Peter King's pre-draft notes and rumors

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by jim1, Apr 15, 2014.

  1. jim1

    jim1 Pro Bowler

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    Four quarterbacks and six wideouts in the top 32 for Brandt, if he had to pick it today. Contrast that to last year, when there was one quarterback, wideout or running back in the top 15—receiver/returner Tavon Austin, who went eighth to St. Louis. This year a very similar player in size and production, Brandin Cooks of Oregon State, could be the sixth wideout picked. Regarding the passers, Derek Carr of Fresno State joins the big three quarterbacks, and at receiver, the depth is so good that former unheralded guys like Cody Latimer of Indiana are creeping into view high in the second round now.

    The stunner this draft season is a quarterback who threw 83 passes as a Rutgers sophomore in 2010, then didn’t play college football in 2011 or 2012 as he transferred from Rutgers to Arizona to Pitt. “The hottest guy in the draft,” Brandt of Tom Savage.

    One more thing: The great value in this draft will be from about 20 to 50. So guess what team is in great position to capitalize on the depth in rounds one and two? San Francisco, with the ability and the recent history of moving around so well. The rich-get-richer Niners hold the 30th, 56th, 61st, and 77th overall picks. If they want someone in the forties, they’ve got the currency to get him. The Browns are in good shape to do some damage too, with picks 26, 35, 71 and 83.

    http://mmqb.si.com/2014/04/14/nfl-draft-jadeveon-clowney-monday-morning-qb/
     
  2. xXwarXx

    xXwarXx Banned Hammered

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    I understand the want to compare cooks and Austin, but realistically I don't see it.

    Cooks is way more polished as a WR, and actually has good hands and can beat the press, and attack downfield.

    Tavon with the ball is as dangerous as it gets, unfortunately as St Louis learned this past year, you really need to work to get him the ball, and it's hard to keep him on the field at this level.
     
  3. jim1

    jim1 Pro Bowler

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    They're both smaller receivers with extreme speed and quicks, great burst. Both solid reurners, too. The question is, if Cooks is as good or better than Austin and Austin went #8 overall last year, how good of a value would Cooks be at #19? In my opinion, a pretty darned good one.
     
  4. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    I was guilty of getting infatuated with the Tavon Austin video highlights. You are right, when he gets the ball he has such blazing speed and can change directions instantly. But you have to be able to get him the ball and for much of the year he was on the sidelines watching the game.
     
  5. mahmacoat

    mahmacoat Banned Hammered

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    "Tom Savage has the strongest arm in the draft" like Druckenmiller and Boller before him.
     
  6. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    I would think that Dri Archer would be a more apt comparison.
     
  7. Roman529

    Roman529 Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew

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    So do you guys think we would take a WR in round one, with all of the receivers we already have on our roster? I think we should get a TE before a WR. Of course projecting that there will be a lot of QB's/WR's taken early, and seeing what actually happens our often two different things. Also Gil Brandt is 80 years old...shouldn' he be hitting the white ball around the golf course?

    Also here is Brandt's article on Tom Savage:


    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...age-the-best-qb-prospect-youve-never-heard-of
     
  8. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    I watched 3 of his games and the first thing that came to my mind was that he looked like Chad Henne. Needless to say, that erased him from my possibilities.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2014
  9. Hungover

    Hungover Scout Team

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    Gil Brandt is obviously hugely respected in some quarters but his latest rankings are pretty absurd.
     
  10. xXwarXx

    xXwarXx Banned Hammered

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    I remember when Brandt found out the size of Manziels feet.

    For three days all he talked about was the size of johnnys feet, it was ridiculous.
     
  11. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    Roman - I still prefer going O-line with the first pick but we don't know how bold Hickey is going to be. He may go for a playmaker and take the BPA as he has stated repeatedly. There appears to be more top tier WRs in this Draft class than I can ever recall. The fact that they are having private workouts and have attended the Pro Days suggests that they are doing their homework thoroughly. Marqise Lee is clearly talented but so is Watkins, Beckham, Cooks, etc. I happen to really like Allen Robinson from Penn State. He's expected to go in the 2nd round but any other year - he's seen as a definite 1st round talent. He's big and physical - 6'2", 225 lbs - built more like Brandon Marshall. And having gone through the Penn State difficulties and stuck it out means that he's pretty loyal too. (Don't forget that we have a couple of top Penn State guys in Wake and Odrick on the team).
    Other possibility is that we draft Kelvin Benjamin in 2nd round and turn him into a TE as the seam threat. He's huge. Somebody described him as just a few cheeseburgers away from being a TE now.
     
  12. LANGER72

    LANGER72 A True Fan

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    All the WR's are a smoke screen. We are going LB at 19. Mosely or Shazier
     
  13. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    Why are you so certain? If Marqise Lee is the top rated player on our board and Mosely and the best OTs have been taken, you may be surprised.
    Yes, we have greater needs but top playmakers are rare.
     
  14. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    I could honestly see Miami going wr in round 1 if guys like Lewan and Martin are off the board. Cooks is a difference maker something the Dolphins could still use on offense. Hopefully Wallace and Tannehill get a better connection going, but can you imagine Cooks in the slot? He's a 100 catch guy in that role and his ability with the ball in his hands is special.

    This is a passing league and Miami's receivers are decent maybe somewhere in the middle of the NFL pack. Why wouldn't the GM try to improve that position in a draft that is loaded at wide receiver? The Dolphins could get a starting caliber offensive lineman like James from Tennessee in R2.
     
  15. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I mentioned it a while back, but it's not difficult to envision a scenario where Miami's BPA at 19 is a WR. Both Lee and Beckham Jr. are very well suited for our system. I said it in a different thread, but couldn't be upset about Lee at 19. I think he's comfortably one of the 15 best players in the draft. I think Shazier is the most obvious pick at 19, but I don't believe he'll be there.

    I don't have any of the CB's rated very close to Lee.
    I have Shazier and Mack rated ahead of Lee, and I have Barr one slot lower than Lee, but of those three, Shazier is the only one who might be there, and he's the only immediate fit.
    Aaron Donald is the only DT I have rated ahead of Lee.
    Robinson, Matthews, and Lewan are the only O-linemen I have rated ahead of Lee.
    I have Ward rated ahead of Lee, and I have Bucannon close.

    Again, if Shazier is there, I think it's an easy pick. After that, I'm probably asking myself if I feel better about drafting Lee (if he's available) in the 1st and hoping one of Ward/Bucannon are still there at 50, or Ward/Bucannon at 19 and hope one of the WR's I like is there in the 2nd. I think we can get our combination of RT, OG, and RB somewhere in the 3rd-6th. But I would not bypass Hill at 50 unless we bypass S in RD 1 and Ward/Bucannon are there at 50.
     
  16. Hungover

    Hungover Scout Team

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    ^ ^ Lee is a very under-rated player for a projected first rounder - people seem to be more in love with Cooks and Beckham for their better speed. Go back to this time last year and many had Lee projected top 10 overall for this draft - if you look at his past season he's been dealing with a knee injury and bad QB play. He runs great routes, has excellent hands and has a knack for yards after the catch. He's also well liked by both his team-mates and coaches (unlike Beckham - who is having said that also a very good talent) and will seemingly have no "prima-donna" issues that plague some WRs. He's going to step in straight away and produce in the NFL.

    Every time I look at this WR class I'm amazed at it - some fantastic talents and uber-deep.
     
  17. xXwarXx

    xXwarXx Banned Hammered

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    I'm not sold of shazier at all. He's listed at 235 but during the season he looks closer to 220's, just looks very small and undersized out there, he's is easily pushed around and outmuscled, in coverage theres nothing special, instincts average at best, over pursues quite often IMO, think people are just in love with his highlights tbh.

    When he does make a quick read he can look special, but that seems few and far in between IMO.

    I'm against drafting any player at any position in the first round if the player is undersized, but especially linebacker. I just don't see how you confidently draft undersized linebackers in the 1st rnd. I don't think he's a big upgrade over Jenkins or Wheeler either, he actually reminds me a lot of Wheeler.

    And tbh, I think its completely crazy to out him in the 1st rnd.
    I'd like Lee or Cooks over him in a heartbeat.
     
  18. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i'll bet money that shazier is still on the board come pick 19...if miami wants him he'll be there...i wouldn't do it
     
  19. Phinsfan93

    Phinsfan93 A True Fan

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    Yup. I'm a Shazier stan but he isn't that run-stopping LB we need.
     
  20. Canadi-Phin

    Canadi-Phin I hate everyone else in the AFC East

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    I do not want one of the top lbs in this draft, I do not think either is as good as Lee. Everyone on here love Lee, 3 years ago and 2 years ago. This year some injuries and a bad QB and no one wants him. I think we'd be lucky if Lee even makes it to us. The media gets tired of players who have been good for a long time unless their name is Andrew Luck. Lee is a crazy talent. Him and Wallace would be fantastic.
     
  21. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    if i'm gonna take a lb this year for the 43 in the top 20 i'm gonna take mosley cause of the instincts...he's got em...chance i take that he may be a product or at least a partial product of the talent around him at bama...and while i think he may be better suited to play wolb i do feel he can play mike if need be...and i do think he's a 3 down lb in the pros...can cover and run

    any lb for miami in the top 20 it's mosley provided the medical checks out if i was gonna take one that high...no doubt in my mind he'd be the most instinctual backer in this core from the day he walked in the building...he reads keys and dx's things well

    but this isn't luke kuechly level guy either...his instincts aren't that level...again though that medical has got to check out...this team can't draft anymore freaking damaged goods...
     
  22. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    I don't mind Gil Brandt continuing to provide his opinion. Besides, the little white ball doesn't travel very far when you are 80 years old. Strength goes first and that robs from swing speed. Unless the golfer is very skilled throughout his game the lack of distance totally changes the way around the course. Lots of guys can't handle it, and are too embarrassed to play from the senior tees or the red tees.

    Anyway, I'm not worried about Tavon Austin. We make excuses galore for our picks who never made it onto the field. Austin actually caught 40 passes with a half dozen total touchdowns, most of them game break fashion. I don't remember the Rams with dominant quarterbacking.

    I have to be true to myself and maintain a very high opinion of Kyle Van Noy. If somebody had told me a year ago that the Dolphins would pick 19th in 2014 and Van Noy would be sitting there, I would have laughed at all the ignorant teams that bypassed him. As always I don't care about all the excuses to use recent indications to come up with the wrong conclusion.

    Maybe 80% of the time if someone's rating slips dramatically from one season to the next I prefer the early version, unless it's someone I didn't like from the beginning, like Taylor Mays.

    Here's one version from immediately following last year's draft. You'll notice the guys who are ranked radically different than today, like Van Noy going 7th. This type of thing always reminds me of preseason ratings in college sports. The simplistic nutcases always fixate on the handful of cases in which the rating is obviously wrong, like a Top 10 team that loses several games early. Meanwhile, you are idiotically forfeiting all the value from the examples in which the early indications were remarkably astute. In situations like this many guys who are rated low now will play back toward their rating from a year ago.

    http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2013/04/2014-nfl-mock-draft-way-too-early-predictions.html
     
  23. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I'm just curious as to how a LB who rarely ("few and far between") makes the right read ends up with 102 solo tackles (btw, that's as many as Kuechly had during his junior season) and 23.5 TFL. If you compare Shazier's junior season to any LB's over the last 10 years, he holds his own with ANY of them. Does he overrun the occasional play? Yes. So does/did every LB who has ever played. Does he sometimes get caught up with an O-lineman? Yes. Ditto. I haven't seen a LB who is better at shooting the gap than Shazier in a long time. I've said it before, but he's Seau like in that regard. You're also not going to find many LB's who can come from the other side of the field and stop Melvin Gordon in a dead sprint. As a sophomore (first full season as a LB HS or college), he had 10 passes defensed and 1 INT (which he returned for a TD). That's 2 more passes defensed than Clinton-Dix and Pryor had combined in 2013.

    If Shazier makes it to Miami, multiple teams shat the bed. You don't get a guy this versatile, this athletic, this productive, and this clean at 19. And in regard to his weight. He weighed in at the combine at 237 (and his pro day, I believe), and he jumped 42 inches and ran a 4.36. Mosley weighed in at the combine at 234. He also said he felt he could easily carry 10 more lbs. Whether or not you believe that is up to you, but he'll be plenty big, and he'll be one of the top 2 or 3 athletes at his position the day he steps on to an NFL field.
     
  24. Canadi-Phin

    Canadi-Phin I hate everyone else in the AFC East

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    Your old mock shows me exactly what I thought it would. Lee really high up. If that guy gets to 19 we should do a dance and make the pick.
     
  25. xXwarXx

    xXwarXx Banned Hammered

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    Total tackles is hardly a stat dependent on one players instincts or a window into what he will do in the NFL. And do not compare him to kuechly, thats just ridiculous.

    He's undersized
    Bad instincts IMO, and in many scouting reports
    Constantly over pursues
    Can't shed a block for his life
    Doesn't show anything special in coverage
    No physicality

    Everyone talks about how "special" shazier is, but almost never hear anyone say what he's actually good at. Just, OMG he's so explosive.
     
  26. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    J-off-her-doll - Your logic is good and Shazier will probably be on the board at #19. He does appear light compared to Mosely, despite what the official weight records (maybe he just has very dense heavy bones). However, fixing our LB problem isn't our biggest problem. O-line is definitely our biggest need and the risk averse GM has to prioritize. This is actually the year that we could do with the extra draft picks because of the Draft depth in several needy positions.
    We have lots of good draft options and there will be some good players who become available because other teams reach for specific needs.
     
  27. fishbanger

    fishbanger Phin fan since 1970!

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    The two poorest areas last year were OL and Lbs. Therefore dont be surprised we take a BPA LB in the first. Philbin does not believe in drafting WRs in First round. Look at Green Bay history of drafting WRs. None 1st Round.
     
  28. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    If you don't think 102 SOLO tackles is impressive, we're not going to agree on much.

    I disagree with all of your trait evaluations to varying degrees.

    Look at the combine weights of the best 4-3 OLB's and 3-4 ILB's over the last 10 seasons. He's bigger than many of the best, and even if you go back to Ray Lewis, he entered the NFL at right around 240. He's bigger than guys like Timmons, Washington, David.

    He has elite instincts around the LOS. As I said, he's one of the best LB's at shooting the gap I've ever seen. His instincts in space are a plus, but they're not as good. As a total package, his instincts are very good. And given his limited time at LB, there's still room for growth in that area.

    It's a huge exaggeration to say that he constantly over pursues. A player that makes 23.5 TFL is going to do it from time to time, and he does from time to time. But he makes the right read much more often than the wrong read. Again, hard to get 102 solo tackles (144 total, btw) when you're constantly guessing wrong.

    For a WLB, he's great at shedding blocks. You're not asking him to line up over the TE. But Shazier dealt with more O-lineman than any WLB that I can remember, and he was very productive in games where he was forced to deal with O-linemen play after play (see Michigan State).

    He had 10 PBU's as a Sophomore in addition to a pick-6. He played more around the LOS as a junior, but he can cover (especially in man), and he has crazy range. And if he's man on your RB, you better get that RB into a pattern, because he'll kill your QB.

    To say that he shows no physicality . . . how much have you watched? He's a violent LB.

    If you're paying attention (like to the post I just made), you'll read what he does well. Again, he has elite instincts around the LOS. Shoots gaps as well as anyone. He has the most insane closing speed I've ever seen from a LB. He can be playing 5 yards off the RB in man coverage, and in the blink of an eye, he's hitting the QB. He makes driving killing plays (7 sacks, 23.5 TFL, 4 FF), and he makes big-play-saving plays (102) solo tackles. His range is unreal.

    Your description fits a collegiate LB barely making it. I'm doing my best, but I can't think of another season where a player had 20+ TFL and 100+ solo tackles. If someone knows the list off hand or has access to it, I'd be interested in knowing its other members.

    I know he's no Bishop Sankey, but give the guy a break.
     
  29. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    I watched that program on the 1974 NFL Draft on NFL Network. There were some good segments. The move to spring in the mid '70s really exploded the interest in the draft. Those months of intrigue opened the door for draftniks like the Marasco brothers at Pro Football Weekly, and independent guys like Palmer Hughes and Jerry Jones (not the same guy). I started purchasing their books every year.

    Then suddenly, perhaps 1978, the Marasco brothers were gone, replaced by a brash heavily accented kid named Joel Buchsbaum. The NFL Network program really butchered it by failing to mention Buchsbaum. He had the highest profile and top level of credibility of any of the early draftniks. Buchsbaum was one one radio show after another leading to the draft. His opinions on certain guys became well known. The other main source during that era was The Sporting News. They did a weekly preview for months leading up to the draft, spotlighting one position per week along with tidbits and rumors. Then they had a huge pre draft issue, just like Pro Football Weekly did.

    I can't believe NFL Network ignored the contribution of The Sporting News. They were known as a baseball publication and some of their long term subscribers were irritated that they were covering football so heavily in March and April. But it was justified. Those issues were incredibly anticipated. The information was always slightly different than Pro Football Weekly. There were also some TV programs spotlighting the draft and isolating certain players. I remember one annual program that had one hour long episode on offensive guys and another on defensive players.

    It's not as different as advertised these days because there's too much preoccupation with the same handful of guys. There may be exponentially more sources of information but when the vast majority is focused on first round players you're not gaining as much as advertised. In my case I certainly knew more about the players as a whole in 1978 than I do today.
     
  30. jim1

    jim1 Pro Bowler

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    Buchsbaum was my favorite, and in my opinion the best. I always like to see him mentioned because history has kind of forgotten him.
     
  31. xXwarXx

    xXwarXx Banned Hammered

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    "great at shedding blocks". In what world is he great at shedding blocks?

    He's has great instincts at shooting the gaps? You mean in a pre snap read or against the run? because post snap it's really not that impressive, and pre snap, would not be considered a instinct, that's a pre determined play determined by his coach.

    Why do you keep bringing up his tackles, is that all you got? You really want to go through how many linebackers in college get 100 tackles? You make it sound like he did it in the NFL.

    I don't care what his combine weight is, linebackers and defensive line players notoriously bring there weight up for combine. Tees agents spend a lot of $ bringing there weight up combine stats up.

    I look at shaziers game tape I see a skinny legged linebacker who will get ran over in the NFL. Seriously look how god damn skinny those legs are, game day that dude looks is in 220s, I guarantee it.

    If you want to draft undersized linebackers in the 1st rnd, be my guest, I'm against it, and don't care how explosive he is. Don't let the YouTube highlight tapes fool you, these undersized explosive guys get there *** handed to them in the NFL, 99% of the time.
     
  32. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    If you don't understand the concept of shooting a gap, and you don't understand it in the context of Ryan Shazier, you haven't watched enough football, Ryan Shazier, or both.
     
  33. xXwarXx

    xXwarXx Banned Hammered

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    Can anyone tell me where this Shazier kid who isnsupposedly worth the 19th pick is, where is he in this video? I don't see him anywhere.

    All I see is a kid who has the easiest linebacker job in college football, a kid who never deals with contact, who gets pushed around, who constantly takes bad angles, doesn't even drop in coverage, gets knocked back at the point of attack almost every time.

    Are we talking about the same guy? Seriously, what the heck is this guy going to do for me in the NFL? I see a player with no position.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F-T3UCL-fE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
     
  34. Austin Tatious

    Austin Tatious Starter

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    This is a major frustration for me. The NFL Network, in particular, but even ESPN with as many resources as they put into the NFL offseason, have a major missed opportunity here. I actually DVR "Path to the Draft" to watch after work, hoping to get good information on the draft but all they really do is regurgitate the same tired opinions on Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel's latest bowel movement. The good news is i can fast forward through it and watch it in 5 minutes. Literally.

    Even Mike Mayock only gives you his top 5 at each position. I don't see any reason why they can't get into meatier evaluations deep into the draft. Lets face it, if you are watching Path to the Draft, you are probably way past needing info on the top 10 players every night. Let's get some breakdowns on Donte Moncrief vs Cody Latimer for example. Lets talk about the 15th best player at a position so we know who they are. Who are the 4th and 5th rounders? Mayock can't be the only analyst. They don't need to hire every ex jock like Curtis Conway just to fill up their ex player pool spouting superficial useless banter. Hire some ex scouts and start breaking this stuff down, guys. It's such a wasted opportunity. And the production value and budget looks like something a couple of kids could pull off out of their basement.

    Between the draft being pushed back and some of the horrible media coverage, this offseason it seems like there is some lost momentum in football hot stove talk.
     
  35. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    Do you like Chris Borland from Wisconsin? While short, he's actually pretty strong and fast. He is expected to go in the 2nd round.
     
  36. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    agreed...path to the draft has gotten terrible...it's 20 minutes of the same clowney or same qb talk and fluff all around...i buzz thru it like a hot knife thru butter
     
  37. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    he played at 225 so your eyes don't deceive you and yes he looked light...does not shed or take on well and yes he has a tendency to overrun and tackle high...some of his tackling skills look more safety than lb...you got it on the instincts they are not high end...you see more athlete and run to the football than instincts at the collegiate level...i don't think they are terrible as in he's lost but this guys getting bumped up off workout numbers...you don't see quite the same level explosion on tape that you got in testing...that said he carried 12 lbs more very well to test like he has but i bet come camp etc you will be getting a guy back down playing in the 230 range...
     
  38. SWS84

    SWS84 A True Fan

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    Honestly, I didn't even consider Shazier before I read this thread; however, you make a compelling argument. I know we need help with our OL, but if we picked this guy, I wouldn't be disappointed at all because we need some serious help at LB'r, too. IMO, I have no doubt we are going to draft a LB'r in this draft, so we might as well go with the one who is the best athlete.
     
  39. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wASW1LsnAHc&t=1m49s

    Few LB's in the NFL or college game have the range to make this tackle at this point - most would have to take a different angle and tackle the BC after about a 5 yard gain. His closing burst is as good as it gets.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wASW1LsnAHc&t=2m55s
     
  40. hoops

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