Slimm's 2017 Tight Ends (Underclassman) | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Slimm's 2017 Tight Ends (Underclassman)

ckparrothead said:
Based on what I see on tape, I'd be surprised if he weighed in at that full 245 lbs on game days. He'll do it during the Combine because looking at his body you can tell he has the ability to get his water up and put on some Aaron Maybin weight. But all in all, he's light for a tight end in the NFL. It's not just the height. His entire frame is narrow, receiver-like. Which is great for him in some ways because he moves like a receiver. But it's bad for him as a blocker because he blocks like a receiver. And you say he's only been used in-line for two years, but based on what I've seen I hardly see him used in-line. That honor belongs to Christopher Herndon wherever applicable, I would say. Njoku isn't even the #1 TE there, Herndon clearly is and has the snap counts to prove it, I'm pretty sure.

I mean just looking at his body, I believe he's a hard worker. I really do. But I also believe he's maxing himself out in terms of bulk. You'd basically be drafting another Thomas Duarte. Maybe a better Thomas Duarte, but they've already got Duarte and they're going to have back MarQueis Gray, and so David Njoku is not the guy they're looking for. Mike Gesicki may not even be that guy although I believe they could see him as another Greg Olsen type and think about it that way.

They want a guy with true versatility. They want a guy that will play attached to the formation, often with trips to the other side, which is a formation they had planned to use heavily when Jordan Cameron was healthy but they've pretty much had to abandon since he's been out. They want a guy they can walk out to the perimeter in the red zone and run slants and fades with. And yeah they want a guy that they can slide into more of a joker slot receiver role or an H-Back role at will, because the defense's rules dictate a certain favorable matchup when they do that.

Right now I think Mike Gesicki, Mark Andrews, O.J. Howard, Jeremy Sprinkle, Jordan Leggett, Jake Butt, maybe Pharaoh Brown, Phazahn Odom...those are the types they'll be looking at, some maybe more than others.
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I always respect your opinion CK, but disagree on this one. I've seen the kid live 4 times, and at camp twice. IMHO he is larger than you think. Andre Johnson weighed in at the combine at 230 lbs at 6'2" and Njoku is significantly larger. We will hit the 245 mark at 6'4" easily. Herndon is the blocker they use inline, but it's not because of size. I will defer to you though if you think Njoku's style of play doesn't fit our needs.
 
Mike Gesicki has announced he's staying at Penn State. He should be among the very top tight ends in 2018.
 
hey slimm and ck have you guys check out Adam Shaheen from div.2 school Ashland university he declared early for the draft has good size 6-7 277lbs, 2016 stats 57-867-16td
 
Snoop said:
What do you think about Bucky Hodges?
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I haven't actually decided yet to be honest because I haven't updated my film watch of him all that much from what I did in 2015. I've seen some of his 2016 work. What I have seen did not exactly make me more comfortable with some of my concerns from 2015. I'm reluctant to comment more until I've actually studied his 2016, which is different from just having seen some of it.
 
fininpsl said:
I always respect your opinion CK, but disagree on this one. I've seen the kid live 4 times, and at camp twice. IMHO he is larger than you think. Andre Johnson weighed in at the combine at 230 lbs at 6'2" and Njoku is significantly larger. We will hit the 245 mark at 6'4" easily. Herndon is the blocker they use inline, but it's not because of size. I will defer to you though if you think Njoku's style of play doesn't fit our needs.
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Well I hope you're right about how he weighs. Maybe the frame is just heavier than it looks. I think Herndon is the blocker they use in-line because of build more than pure size. Like I said Njoku has kind of that narrow hipped wide receiver build.

Perhaps I've given the impression I'm not high on the guy, but that's not the case. Saying he's Devin Funchess is basically a de facto "he's a 1st round pick" declaration. You've gotta be high on a guy to declare that because nobody walks into the 1st round by default, as if it's incumbent upon us to prove why a guy does not belong in the 1st round rather than why a guy does belong. Another comparison I've often used is Jermichael Finley, who is quite an accomplished pro football player. So I'm clearly not trying to say that Njoku sucks.

I don't think he is what the Dolphins are after, based on things I've heard. But I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

And I don't think he's an in-line blocker. I guess you could have him do it but he's not more than an interference blocker that way. Maybe he doesn't need to be more than that.

I would take him over O.J. Howard if that gives you a better idea.
 
ckparrothead said:
Well I hope you're right about how he weighs. Maybe the frame is just heavier than it looks. I think Herndon is the blocker they use in-line because of build more than pure size. Like I said Njoku has kind of that narrow hipped wide receiver build.

Perhaps I've given the impression I'm not high on the guy, but that's not the case. Saying he's Devin Funchess is basically a de facto "he's a 1st round pick" declaration. You've gotta be high on a guy to declare that because nobody walks into the 1st round by default, as if it's incumbent upon us to prove why a guy does not belong in the 1st round rather than why a guy does belong. Another comparison I've often used is Jermichael Finley, who is quite an accomplished pro football player. So I'm clearly not trying to say that Njoku sucks.

I don't think he is what the Dolphins are after, based on things I've heard. But I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

And I don't think he's an in-line blocker. I guess you could have him do it but he's not more than an interference blocker that way. Maybe he doesn't need to be more than that.

I would take him over O.J. Howard if that gives you a better idea.
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I never thought you were craping on Njoku as a prospect, and saying you prefer him over Howard is high praise. I agree he is a bit narrow waisted too. Maybe that does affect his ability to block to a degree, but I would gamble he ends up a better NFL blocker than Cameron was, though that's not saying much. I'm just saying he isn't small (Richt just this A.M. affirmed that Njoku is over 240 on the Joe Rose Show), and he absolutely has the strength to take on blockers. He snuffed out Bradley Chubb from NC State a couple times in their game this year, and that kid is no slouch of a DE. My comparable player for him is Jordan Reed. The funny thing is Njoku is blowing up right now, and he hasn't even performed at the combine. That's where he is going to show out. Frankly, it's looking like he won't be there when the Fins pick anyway. Any way, I appreciate your opinions on here. You, Hoops, and Slimm bring so much to this board in terms of player evaluations, and make it a much more enjoyable board.
 
Njoku was so freakishly athletic in 2015. Gad, what a revelation. He looked like the type of rare athlete who used to show up on the roster in the late '90s and early '00s. In 2016 I did think he slipped a little bit. There was some frustration with him on Canes boards, as the running game slumped and played a big role in the 4-game losing streak at midseason. Some posters were preferring Herndon and his more physical style, along with dependability on short routes.

Herndon should be a fullback, for one thing. He wears the correct number at 23. Too bad he came around now and not 20 or 30 years earlier, when his versatility at the fullback role would be better appreciated and utilized.

Kaaya missed Njoku several times on plays that could have broken huge. I'm going to retain my impression of Njoku from 2015 and early 2016. Special player who can be an NFL star.

He is narrow hipped and will have to withstand some abuse in the NFL and prove he's tough enough. The gazelle types at that position don't always pan out. I've been guilty of overstating them sometimes. Just look at Gronkowski and how he's built yet he takes all those lashing blows to the hip and knee area. Those are diving shoulder hits, not the type the rules have taken away, so the safeties seem to relish those opportunities and really unleash. The original Kellen Winslow was so fantastic since he did have that gazelle build and downfield danger yet he could also run all those blue collar turn-in routes like a Jason Witten. I'm not convinced Njoku can do that. He's an occasional mismatch piece, like a tight end version of what the Dolphins have in Devante Parker.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
Njoku was so freakishly athletic in 2015. Gad, what a revelation. He looked like the type of rare athlete who used to show up on the roster in the late '90s and early '00s. In 2016 I did think he slipped a little bit. There was some frustration with him on Canes boards, as the running game slumped and played a big role in the 4-game losing streak at midseason. Some posters were preferring Herndon and his more physical style, along with dependability on short routes.

Herndon should be a fullback, for one thing. He wears the correct number at 23. Too bad he came around now and not 20 or 30 years earlier, when his versatility at the fullback role would be better appreciated and utilized.

Kaaya missed Njoku several times on plays that could have broken huge. I'm going to retain my impression of Njoku from 2015 and early 2016. Special player who can be an NFL star.

He is narrow hipped and will have to withstand some abuse in the NFL and prove he's tough enough. The gazelle types at that position don't always pan out. I've been guilty of overstating them sometimes. Just look at Gronkowski and how he's built yet he takes all those lashing blows to the hip and knee area. Those are diving shoulder hits, not the type the rules have taken away, so the safeties seem to relish those opportunities and really unleash. The original Kellen Winslow was so fantastic since he did have that gazelle build and downfield danger yet he could also run all those blue collar turn-in routes like a Jason Witten. I'm not convinced Njoku can do that. He's an occasional mismatch piece, like a tight end version of what the Dolphins have in Devante Parker.
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Sorry but i'm confused. Do you think he'll be a special player who can be an NFL star or an occasional mismatch piece ?
 
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Anyone want to tell me why people have so thoroughly forgotten about Ricky Seals-Jones?

A year ago this guy was David Njoku.
 
ckparrothead said:
Anyone want to tell me why people have so thoroughly forgotten about Ricky Seals-Jones?

A year ago this guy was David Njoku.
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Not sure what you mean here on either account. May need more of an explanation.

Ricky Seals-Jones is a big bodied wide receiver. He's always played the WR position at aTm. I've heard nothing anywhere at anytime regarding Seals-Jones making the conversion to the TE position. However, it's precisely where I project him at the next level, thus why I have him listed as a TE.

He moves like a TE, runs routes like a TE, uses his body like a TE, and tests athletically as more of a TE than a WR. He's not going make much hay in the NFL at WR with 4.7 speed and a cone in the 7.4 range. Furthermore, he's an excellent stalk blocker with tremendous upper body strength and long arms. Ideal skillset for a flexed TE in certain formations.

There's only 2 guys like him in this draft. The other is Jason Croom. Another big bodied WR who I project as more of a TE in the NFL. However, the difference is Croom already made the transition to TE last year for Tennessee, so he's well on his way to making the conversion. Particularly after showing up and winning MVP at the Tropical Bowl All Star Game as a TE.

They both remind me a lot of David Martin coming out of Tennessee several years ago, who came out as a big bodied WR and made the conversion to TE at the next level.

Njoku is simply a different caliber of athlete who has yet to scratch the surface of what he can become as only a RS sophomore. Croom and Seals-Jones are much further along in their journey in terms of maxing out their bodies physically than Njoku is at this stage. Still a lot of upside with David Njoku, and he's already a more physically gifted player.
 
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