Statistical Evidence of Shoddy Coaching / Coaching Lost This Game

[FinaticalOne]

Originally posted by PhinPhan1227
When quoting these stats, are you at ALL aware that a big part of the success of those 1st down pass plays was because the run had been committed to so strongly? The reason they tried the run, run, run, run, pass, was so the pass would be successful when they DID throw the ball.

That's more of a reason to take what they give us. Did you see our success rate on 3rd downs yesterday. I remember at one point in the 4th quarter it was 1 for 9. That's because Turner wants to run on first down when the whole world knows we are going to do it, then we end up getting -3, -2, and 1 yd gains on first down setting us up for 3rd and long conversions. This kind of predictable play calling sets us up for failure and that's why are offense is not effective.

 

[ZOD]

Originally posted by FinaticalOne


Hey ZOD, I'm not sure if you were responding to my last post or not because the threads got merged. I'm not saying go to a passing game, just use a different formation that would spread out the defense and run the ball, that would help our mediocre o-line out with the blocking scheme. And if they want to crowd the box while we are in a 3 WR set, then pass on them....like someone said earlier, "take what they give us". My solution is primarily to open up some holes in the running game that LBs and S had been pluggin' up because we allow them to crowd the box with the max protect formation. If we spread them out, they will have a much harder crowding the box on us and it will leave them vulnerable.

Do you remember the last series of regulation that where 4 passes were completed for big yardage?

They don't respect the pass.

Ricky is not going to "blow up" until we have a 300 hundred yard passing game.

The sad fact about that statement is we will lose the game on turnovers and it will change nothing in the way other teams line up against us.

 

[rhadaddy]

I too was disgusted with the playcalling

I really believe that we are one of the few teams, Carolina and Baltimore included, that needs to pass to open up the running game. It's an anomoly in the NFL, but we highly depend on the run to win us games and teams know it and respect it, so they do everything to stop it. It was unbeleivable how many times we were in second and 9. While NE were constantly in 2nd and short. All NE was doing was dumping of a pass to the flat every first down or a quick slant for five to seven yards. Very short high percentage passing. Certainly something Fiedler could handle. I got tired of them running ricky on first down cause he had no running lanes and I had flashbacks of Lamar Smith and his dancing in the backfield.

Point is teams look for us to run ricky on 1st and 2nd down. So they run blitz us to clog up the lanes. It was obvious the mismatches that we could've continued to exploit with McMicheal on Harrison or Femi out in the flat for short gains. Hindsight is a
b!tch, but damn the coaching and playcalling absolutely stunk. It was way too predictable and ineffective.

 

[FinaticalOne]

Originally posted by DeDolfan


Using alot of different formations will screw with a Ds head as much as anything else. if we are constantly changing formations, you'll catch the D in alot of mismatches and if nothing else, they'll burn alot of tOs otherwise unnecessarily. How many WRs do we have? Use them, especially the speed guys. I know turner rarely uses 3 WRs sets but one formation that would open up things for Ricky is a 4, count'em, 4 WR formation, 2 spilt wide on either side of the field. That effectively eliminates most of their LB corp. ricky could do alot of damage to their dime pkg because we would basically have them even up on OL blocking since the safeties would be "cheating" back to respect the WR speed, especially if a pass or 2 was hit. If Ricky hits a draw, even if the middle gets plugged up and bounces outside, he's got good ydg before the rest catches up with him. And "theoretically, if one thing gets going the other will also. but we're falling back into the same ole same ole of the past several yrs....................becoming too vanilla and predictable...again. Like i was harping on last week after the win at Jax, this o hAS to step up and start putting points on the board cuz we can't expect the D to be there and be perfect everytime out. And we all know it came to pass and when it was on the O, they failed miserable......again.

You are exactly right. We are on the same page. Turner has to spread the defense out more, then we take what they give us.

 

[FinaticalOne]

Originally posted by ZOD


Do you remember the last series of regulation that where 4 passes were completed for big yardage?

They don't respect the pass.

Ricky is not going to "blow up" until we have a 300 hundred yard passing game.

The sad fact about that statement is we will lose the game on turnovers and it will change nothing in the way other teams line up against us.

Here Here!!!!!

 

[rhadaddy]

How will we lose the game in turnovers

Originally posted by ZOD


Do you remember the last series of regulation that where 4 passes were completed for big yardage?

They don't respect the pass.

Ricky is not going to "blow up" until we have a 300 hundred yard passing game.

The sad fact about that statement is we will lose the game on turnovers and it will change nothing in the way other teams line up against us.

If you overuse ricky he's prone to fumble and given his ineffectiveness lately you almost certainly need to mix it up. It's no secret that you're not a big fan of mister "unmentionable" and I'm not either, but he's been here long enough for the coaches to know his strengths and weaknesses. He has great accuracy under twenty yards and sucks with deep out passes, great with bootlegs and rolling out of the pocket... Geez can't they use those positive attributes to his and the team's advantage? FEIDLER IS NOT A POCKET PASSER.

 

[Muck]

Tuner seems a little stubborn in that he's trying to fit square pegs into round holes. It seems we have the old Jimmy mentality of "we're going run "X". You know "X" is coming. We know you know "X" is coming. But we dare you to try and stop it".

That worked well when Norv and Dave were running Jimmy's offenses and defenses because they had the players to do it. Here we have a mobile QB and an OL that is really struggling to functionally block. Teams are stacking the LOS and run blitzing. They line up 5 guys as down lineman and we still run and run and run. And the play action is nowhere near as good as it was last season. You'd think with all the running we do, we'd try and sell a playfake. Get Jay outside the pocket. Or start with some quick passing to the TE. Jay is adept at these things.

At some point you have to adjust.

I understand when Larry Coker and Dave Wannstedt talk about "we're not concerned with what they're doing. We're mainly concerned about what we're doing.....and executing it". Coker can say that because he has the best players in the country. We don't. And that means taking what the defense is giving you.

I'm not worried about the defense. They played well enough to win yesterday. But it's high time the offense helps them out.

 

[FinaticalOne]

Originally posted by Muck
Tuner seems a little stubborn in that he's trying to fit square pegs into round holes. It seems we have the old Jimmy mentality of "we're going run "X". You know "X" is coming. We know you know "X" is coming. But we dare you to try and stop it".

That worked well when Norv and Dave were running Jimmy's offenses and defenses because they had the players to do it. Here we have a mobile QB and an OL that is really struggling to functionally block. Teams are stacking the LOS and run blitzing. They line up 5 guys as down lineman and we still run and run and run. And the play action is nowhere near as good as it was last season. You'd think with all the running we do, we'd try and sell a playfake. Get Jay outside the pocket. Or start with some quick passing to the TE. Jay is adept at these things.

At some point you have to adjust.

I understand when Larry Coker and Dave Wannstedt talk about "we're not concerned with what they're doing. We're mainly concerned about what we're doing.....and executing it". Coker can say that because he has the best players in the country. We don't. And that means taking what the defense is giving you.

I'm not worried about the defense. They played well enough to win yesterday. But it's high time the offense helps them out.

:clap: AMEN :clap:

 

[M-REAL]

Great posts men! Agree the play-calling, for the most part sucked. I'm surprised on 2nd and 1 they didn't just run RW right up the gut, or even a QB sneak. Either/ or would've been effective enough for the first down. On Sports Jam live tonite, i wonder which Fin will arrive and have to explain what TF happened. If the coaches can't take the blame, in the player's heart of hearts they will have to.

 

[Da 'Fins]

Originally posted by PhinPhan1227


When quoting these stats, are you at ALL aware that a big part of the success of those 1st down pass plays was because the run had been committed to so strongly? The reason they tried the run, run, run, run, pass, was so the pass would be successful when they DID throw the ball.

However, no team has this kind of skewed percentages - unless they are running well.

If it's successful, you have to try it more. Furthermore, we had 3, count 'em, 3 passes after obtaining 20 first downs.

And, all this requires is about 5 more passing plays on 1st down. That puts it at 14 passes, 17 runs - good balance, with an emphasis on running.

Further, the more we pass on 1st, the more we keep them a little off balance.

I think we need to throw in some high percentage pass plays (6-8 yard ins or slants or flares to the TE).

 

[MNFINFAN]

Re: Re: Coaching Lost This Game

Originally posted by DeDolfan


That's been my biggest biiitch about Wannstedt. That playing not to lose attitude will bit you in the *** more often than not. But all of that PLUS the inability of the O to score (heaven forbid) more than one TD/gm !!

You know what that has been a philosophy for more years than I care to remember, it preceded DW, didn't Olivadotti master the prevent defense?? It has become a facet of the Miami Dolphin's Character, we play not to lose games, maybe it should become our motto

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Wasn't everyone on this forum bitching last year when Turner called 3 pass plays at the end of the NE game? The cry then was "Why don't we use our best weapon? This play calling sucks!"

Now we run the ball and the cry is "Why are we playing not to lose? This play calling sucks!"

The Dolphins will not be effective offensively until the line play improves, plain and simple. Those who think that NE was putting 8 in the box have to explain why Rodney Harrison was smacking WRs 15 yds down field.

The Dolphins do not have the type of offense to win a shootout. They must keep games close and try to win at the end. As far as being outcoached, if Mare makes one of the two field goals, we aren't having this conversation.

 

[FinaticalOne]

Originally posted by FinfanInBuffalo
Wasn't everyone on this forum bitching last year when Turner called 3 pass plays at the end of the NE game? The cry then was "Why don't we use our best weapon? This play calling sucks!"

Now we run the ball and the cry is "Why are we playing not to lose? This play calling sucks!"

The Dolphins will not be effective offensively until the line play improves, plain and simple. Those who think that NE was putting 8 in the box have to explain why Rodney Harrison was smacking WRs 15 yds down field.

The Dolphins do not have the type of offense to win a shootout. They must keep games close and try to win at the end. As far as being outcoached, if Mare makes one of the two field goals, we aren't having this conversation.

First, you need to go back and read the post game quotes of Belichick about stacking the middle w/an extra man on our running downs (1rst and 2nd downs). He doen't deny doing that.

Second, there was some people comlaining about that series of play calling during the NE game last year when he called three straight passing plays. They had good reason to complain, as I recall, Ricky had over 180 yds that game, the running game was working so why abandon it when you need it most at that time?

Third, the whole game yesterday, we could not get any positive yards on 1rst and 2nd down because they knew we were going to run. Going into the 4th quarter we were 1 for 9 on third down conversions, because Turner tried to run on first downs 71% of the time, as a result Ricky got stuffed every time and when 3rd down came around it was always 3rd and long (7 yards or more).

Everyone agrees the line play has to improve, but it all starts w/Norv's play-calling as well. It's too predictable, and it doesn't matter who is on the line, if a defense knows what you are going to do, nine out of 10 times they will stop you.

 

[dolfan06]

Re: Coaching Lost This Game

Originally posted by Da 'Fins
First, I think this was a huge game as our season goes. We needed to be 3-0 against our division with two December games in Buffalo and New England. And we needed the AFC victory. It was a terrible game to lose. Inexcusable, imo. Especially, when we had so many chances to win.

Say what we want about the inconsistent play of Fiedler and others (the OL is soft and a huge weakness), we would have won the game had Wannstedt not gone into a shell each time we got near the 20 in the 4th Q and then in OT.

I have supported Wannstedt and I like him as a person, but he did NOT play to Win! He was afraid of losing. He played afraid.

Going for a FG on 3rd down? If we had the ball on the 5 yard line, fine. But, from the same spot we had one blocked b/c Mare couldn't get the ball up? That was mindboggling stupidity!

I'm sorry, he blew it. He needs to have the guts to shoulder the blame on this one. If he doesn't stand up at the press conference and say, "I blew it on this play, and our play calling was too predictable," then he's not being a stand up guy on this one.

sorry, didn't see the game. went for a field goal on third down, in overtime.? thats nuts!

 

[FinaticalOne]

Originally posted by FinfanInBuffalo
As far as being outcoached, if Mare makes one of the two field goals, we aren't having this conversation.

They were clearly outcoached. I started threads about our underacheiving offense last week after a victory. I saw this coming a while back and it is starting to come to head. I hope our coaches get smart and change things up. I still have faith in them.