hoops
Tua time!
is henderson the former #1 recruit tackle from a few years ago???
Supplemental Draft scheduled for July 12th, might have up to 10 players
- Thread starter Nublar7
- Start date
chrispepper
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Josh Gordon will more than likely warrant a 3rd/4th round pick.
NorFlaFin
PowerHungryMo'fo
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Full list of of players in the draft:
Boise State defensive back Quaylon Ewing
Baylor wide receiver Josh Gordon
Syracuse running back Adam Harris
Iowa State tackle Adrian Haughton
Carson-Newman linebacker Larry Lumpkin
Georgia defensive end Montez Robinson
McMurray wide receiver Houston Tuminello
TCU running back Ed Wesley
Boise State defensive back Quaylon Ewing
Baylor wide receiver Josh Gordon
Syracuse running back Adam Harris
Iowa State tackle Adrian Haughton
Carson-Newman linebacker Larry Lumpkin
Georgia defensive end Montez Robinson
McMurray wide receiver Houston Tuminello
TCU running back Ed Wesley
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Josh Gordon definitely has my interest piqued. Adam Engroff will be key in all this because as the west scout that covers Utah he should be able to do two things for me:
1. Plot a development vector for Gordon's route running based on what it was at Baylor and what Engroff saw in practice at Utah
2. Use his contacts at Utah to give me the real story on why Gordon is running away from his second school in as many years
The reason I need to see the first point is because Gordon was a limited receiver at Baylor. He was a mega size/speed guy and they used him that way, perimeter-only, basically ran three routes, plus screens. I need Engroff to tell me if he's been developed more since transferring to Utah.
The point of reference I'd use is Tommy Streeter. Similar size/speed combination, similar production, both have off field type personality concerns, both were developed and used in limited fashion. Gordon gets off the blocks better, is more physical and strong, and I think he runs a little more in control. But those differences aren't necessarily obvious enough to make Gordon's grade way better. Streeter went 6th round which would suggest Gordon could go 4th to 6th, but teams typically bump down a round for being in the Supplemental Draft...so I would say Gordon likely goes 5th to 7th and if I'm Miami and I like him, the decision I make is whether I think I'll get him if I bid a 5th rounder, and if I don't, am I willing to part with a 4th. Need to speak to Engroff to answer the latter question but right now I'd not be inclined. Most I would bid for him is a 5th and if Engroff tells me he's bad, bad news...I take him off the table.
1. Plot a development vector for Gordon's route running based on what it was at Baylor and what Engroff saw in practice at Utah
2. Use his contacts at Utah to give me the real story on why Gordon is running away from his second school in as many years
The reason I need to see the first point is because Gordon was a limited receiver at Baylor. He was a mega size/speed guy and they used him that way, perimeter-only, basically ran three routes, plus screens. I need Engroff to tell me if he's been developed more since transferring to Utah.
The point of reference I'd use is Tommy Streeter. Similar size/speed combination, similar production, both have off field type personality concerns, both were developed and used in limited fashion. Gordon gets off the blocks better, is more physical and strong, and I think he runs a little more in control. But those differences aren't necessarily obvious enough to make Gordon's grade way better. Streeter went 6th round which would suggest Gordon could go 4th to 6th, but teams typically bump down a round for being in the Supplemental Draft...so I would say Gordon likely goes 5th to 7th and if I'm Miami and I like him, the decision I make is whether I think I'll get him if I bid a 5th rounder, and if I don't, am I willing to part with a 4th. Need to speak to Engroff to answer the latter question but right now I'd not be inclined. Most I would bid for him is a 5th and if Engroff tells me he's bad, bad news...I take him off the table.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
WR Josh Gordon, Baylor-Utah
Quick Points
*Josh Gordon was a 2 star recruit (Scout.com) out of Lamar High School in Texas, right in the back yard of Texas A&M.
*He was listed 6'4" and 215 lbs coming out of high school, supposedly running a 4.55 in the 40 yard dash.
*Had interest from Big 12 and Big Ten schools. Offers from Nebraska, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Baylor, Kansas & Missouri. Michigan had heavy interest.
*His top two schools ended up Mike Sherman's Texas A&M and Art Briles' Baylor. He chose Baylor over A&M.
*He had a 2.5 GPA in High School and a 21 on the ACT.
*Spent 2009 on the bench as a true freshman, amassing only 1 catch for 7 yards.
*Broke out in 2010 as a true sophomore catching 42 balls for 714 yards (17.0 YPC) and 7 TDs. Kendall Wright had 72 catches for 953 yards and 7 TDs.
*Worked almost exclusively on the right side of the formation out on the perimeter as a starter, playing nearly every snap.
*Size ranges between 6'3" and 6'4", at around 220 or 225 lbs. Listed size appears legit on tape.
*Speed ranges from mid 4.4's to reports of running in the 4.3's in practice. Speed appears legit on tape.
*Has legit acceleration and foot quickness to go with speed, is not a build-up speed/long-strider type.
*Is as strong and physical as you would hope a guy that big would be, really bullies DBs as a blocker, explosive punch, highly motivated.
*Limited role in 2010, perimeter-only, ran essentially three routes plus screens. Terrence Williams and Kendall Wright were varied more in usage.
*Clean hands catcher, showed the ability to track and haul in the over the shoulder ball.
*Good acceleration and excellent physicality after the catch. Effective on screens.
*Ability to get off the line at the snap and eat cushion stands out, tough for even 4.43 guys to cover deep one on one.
*Suspended indefinitely for an incident where he was arrested in a car that had a small amount of marijuana in it.
*Chose to leave Baylor and transfer to Utah because of the incident. Sat out the 2011 season as result of transfer.
*Daniel Jeremiah (Twitter: @MoveTheSticks) recalled seeing him at 2011 Utah practices and hearing coaches praise him highly.
*Will work out for scouts on July 10th, 2012. Supplemental Draft to be held July 12th, 2012.
My take: I love his talent. It reminds me of someone like Vincent Jackson. There is latent, under-appreciated RAC talent and a vicious blocker with solid hands and strong upper body all hidden inside him. We only last saw the guy play in 2010 as a true sophomore running limited roles in Art Briles' system. He could be up whole levels compared with what he was back then, after a year of practicing with the Utes. Having some idea how he's grown in that year should be key for whichever team drafts him, whether that means contacts at Utah, scouts personally having witnessed him practice, or just private workouts leading up to the Supplemental Draft. A team will also have to get comfortable with him off the field and have their arms wrapped around why he's leaving Utah after sitting out his transfer year. It's bad enough he ran away from Baylor after getting caught with marijuana. The Supplemental Draft is viewed pretty skeptically by the NFL, so his stock is likely to be compared more with the likes of Tommy Streeter than the likes of Stephen Hill. Production, history, character and experience level all point more to Streeter than Hill. But he's better than Streeter in my opinion, quicker off the line, more physical, more controlled, cleaner. If Streeter was taken in the 6th then I would think Gordon should go in the 4th or 5th. However, teams often bump grades down a round out of pure caution when it comes to the Supplemental Draft, so his base grade is more likely to be a 5th or 6th. I say base grade because character dig-up will affect it, as will how clear vision individual teams feel they have for how he evolved during his stay with Utah. Like I said that can either be achieved by having your west scout pound the table for the guy and say he's had his eye on this kid a long time and viewed him as one of his top receivers heading into 2012, or it can be achieved with a blowout private workout.
Dolphins take: Mike Sherman has some amount of experience with Gordon from having recruited him, and highly esteemed west scout Adam Engroff has doubtless been checking up on him since he transferred from Baylor to Utah. The Dolphins have been rumored to be sniffing around Kashif Montgomery, which means they're interested in another developmental prospect, perhaps specifically a fast and physically dynamic one, and so that puts them in the market for Gordon. I would not expect them to offer more than a 5th or 6th, though.
YouTube Plays
From the 2010 Texas Bowl, Illinois vs Baylor:
Screen catch for very little yardage, didn't seem to be expecting the ball
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=87s
Watch how fast he gets off the blocks and down the field (btw, what an unpleasant looking woman...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=98s
Seemed like this should've been called P.I. since it was 10 yards down the field. No catch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=132s
Strong blocking for a receiver that comes in behind him...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=169s
Blocked his man into tomorrow on this play...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=201s
Screen catch and run for about 10 yards on 1st down, strong acceleration, good finish...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=220s
Runs a 12 yard curl route against off coverage, DB forced to back pedal aggressively, lots of separation, no throw...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=226s
Look how far the corners are playing off the Baylor perimeter WRs on 2nd & 10, respecting deep ability...ridonkulous...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=244s
Short catch with a good 5 yards of run after catch, including 3 yards after contact
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=252s
Catch off the scramble with a DB on him immediately for the tackle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=260s
Corner plays 7 yards off the ball and turns hips early, Gordon still creates downfield separation, ball overthrown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=281s
Key block on a touchdown run to his side
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=329s
One-on-one downfield with CB Travon Bellamy, draws the P.I. flag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=345s
Catch on a scramble drill against Bellamy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=404s
Another catch on an ill-timed throw, no run-after-catch because of timing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=413s
Nice out route catch against future standout CB Terry Hawthorne
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=493s
Nice fake on Hawthorne, ball not thrown to him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=520s
Accidentally trips up his own runner trying to block for him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=578s
From a collection of 2010 Baylor football highlights:
Two consecutive plays...over the shoulder touchdown catch...impressive run after catch touchdown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gyePs2_yJB0#t=164s
Long vertical touchdown reception versus K-State
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gyePs2_yJB0#t=264s
Deep vertical touchdown (I think versus TCU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gyePs2_yJB0#t=369s
Another more impressive deep vertical touchdown versus TCU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gyePs2_yJB0#t=406s
Another deep touchdown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gyePs2_yJB0#t=446s
From the 2010 Kansas game:
Deep touchdown catch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-lbNdQAzVzg#t=21s
Big block on a screen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-lbNdQAzVzg#t=50s
94 yard touchdown catch and run off the screen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-lbNdQAzVzg#t=71s
Big catch and run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-lbNdQAzVzg#t=95s
From the Buffalo-Baylor 2010 game:
Screen catch and run...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6i3Ub-1hs78#t=328s
From the Oklahoma State game 2010:
Screen catch and run, ball stripped, fumble recovered by Cowboys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZHzARaArg1M#t=26s
Quick Points
*Josh Gordon was a 2 star recruit (Scout.com) out of Lamar High School in Texas, right in the back yard of Texas A&M.
*He was listed 6'4" and 215 lbs coming out of high school, supposedly running a 4.55 in the 40 yard dash.
*Had interest from Big 12 and Big Ten schools. Offers from Nebraska, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Baylor, Kansas & Missouri. Michigan had heavy interest.
*His top two schools ended up Mike Sherman's Texas A&M and Art Briles' Baylor. He chose Baylor over A&M.
*He had a 2.5 GPA in High School and a 21 on the ACT.
*Spent 2009 on the bench as a true freshman, amassing only 1 catch for 7 yards.
*Broke out in 2010 as a true sophomore catching 42 balls for 714 yards (17.0 YPC) and 7 TDs. Kendall Wright had 72 catches for 953 yards and 7 TDs.
*Worked almost exclusively on the right side of the formation out on the perimeter as a starter, playing nearly every snap.
*Size ranges between 6'3" and 6'4", at around 220 or 225 lbs. Listed size appears legit on tape.
*Speed ranges from mid 4.4's to reports of running in the 4.3's in practice. Speed appears legit on tape.
*Has legit acceleration and foot quickness to go with speed, is not a build-up speed/long-strider type.
*Is as strong and physical as you would hope a guy that big would be, really bullies DBs as a blocker, explosive punch, highly motivated.
*Limited role in 2010, perimeter-only, ran essentially three routes plus screens. Terrence Williams and Kendall Wright were varied more in usage.
*Clean hands catcher, showed the ability to track and haul in the over the shoulder ball.
*Good acceleration and excellent physicality after the catch. Effective on screens.
*Ability to get off the line at the snap and eat cushion stands out, tough for even 4.43 guys to cover deep one on one.
*Suspended indefinitely for an incident where he was arrested in a car that had a small amount of marijuana in it.
*Chose to leave Baylor and transfer to Utah because of the incident. Sat out the 2011 season as result of transfer.
*Daniel Jeremiah (Twitter: @MoveTheSticks) recalled seeing him at 2011 Utah practices and hearing coaches praise him highly.
*Will work out for scouts on July 10th, 2012. Supplemental Draft to be held July 12th, 2012.
My take: I love his talent. It reminds me of someone like Vincent Jackson. There is latent, under-appreciated RAC talent and a vicious blocker with solid hands and strong upper body all hidden inside him. We only last saw the guy play in 2010 as a true sophomore running limited roles in Art Briles' system. He could be up whole levels compared with what he was back then, after a year of practicing with the Utes. Having some idea how he's grown in that year should be key for whichever team drafts him, whether that means contacts at Utah, scouts personally having witnessed him practice, or just private workouts leading up to the Supplemental Draft. A team will also have to get comfortable with him off the field and have their arms wrapped around why he's leaving Utah after sitting out his transfer year. It's bad enough he ran away from Baylor after getting caught with marijuana. The Supplemental Draft is viewed pretty skeptically by the NFL, so his stock is likely to be compared more with the likes of Tommy Streeter than the likes of Stephen Hill. Production, history, character and experience level all point more to Streeter than Hill. But he's better than Streeter in my opinion, quicker off the line, more physical, more controlled, cleaner. If Streeter was taken in the 6th then I would think Gordon should go in the 4th or 5th. However, teams often bump grades down a round out of pure caution when it comes to the Supplemental Draft, so his base grade is more likely to be a 5th or 6th. I say base grade because character dig-up will affect it, as will how clear vision individual teams feel they have for how he evolved during his stay with Utah. Like I said that can either be achieved by having your west scout pound the table for the guy and say he's had his eye on this kid a long time and viewed him as one of his top receivers heading into 2012, or it can be achieved with a blowout private workout.
Dolphins take: Mike Sherman has some amount of experience with Gordon from having recruited him, and highly esteemed west scout Adam Engroff has doubtless been checking up on him since he transferred from Baylor to Utah. The Dolphins have been rumored to be sniffing around Kashif Montgomery, which means they're interested in another developmental prospect, perhaps specifically a fast and physically dynamic one, and so that puts them in the market for Gordon. I would not expect them to offer more than a 5th or 6th, though.
YouTube Plays
From the 2010 Texas Bowl, Illinois vs Baylor:
Screen catch for very little yardage, didn't seem to be expecting the ball
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=87s
Watch how fast he gets off the blocks and down the field (btw, what an unpleasant looking woman...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=98s
Seemed like this should've been called P.I. since it was 10 yards down the field. No catch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=132s
Strong blocking for a receiver that comes in behind him...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=169s
Blocked his man into tomorrow on this play...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=201s
Screen catch and run for about 10 yards on 1st down, strong acceleration, good finish...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=220s
Runs a 12 yard curl route against off coverage, DB forced to back pedal aggressively, lots of separation, no throw...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=226s
Look how far the corners are playing off the Baylor perimeter WRs on 2nd & 10, respecting deep ability...ridonkulous...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=244s
Short catch with a good 5 yards of run after catch, including 3 yards after contact
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=252s
Catch off the scramble with a DB on him immediately for the tackle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=260s
Corner plays 7 yards off the ball and turns hips early, Gordon still creates downfield separation, ball overthrown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=281s
Key block on a touchdown run to his side
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=329s
One-on-one downfield with CB Travon Bellamy, draws the P.I. flag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=345s
Catch on a scramble drill against Bellamy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=404s
Another catch on an ill-timed throw, no run-after-catch because of timing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=413s
Nice out route catch against future standout CB Terry Hawthorne
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=493s
Nice fake on Hawthorne, ball not thrown to him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=520s
Accidentally trips up his own runner trying to block for him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r456mWHvt_c#t=578s
From a collection of 2010 Baylor football highlights:
Two consecutive plays...over the shoulder touchdown catch...impressive run after catch touchdown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gyePs2_yJB0#t=164s
Long vertical touchdown reception versus K-State
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gyePs2_yJB0#t=264s
Deep vertical touchdown (I think versus TCU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gyePs2_yJB0#t=369s
Another more impressive deep vertical touchdown versus TCU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gyePs2_yJB0#t=406s
Another deep touchdown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gyePs2_yJB0#t=446s
From the 2010 Kansas game:
Deep touchdown catch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-lbNdQAzVzg#t=21s
Big block on a screen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-lbNdQAzVzg#t=50s
94 yard touchdown catch and run off the screen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-lbNdQAzVzg#t=71s
Big catch and run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-lbNdQAzVzg#t=95s
From the Buffalo-Baylor 2010 game:
Screen catch and run...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6i3Ub-1hs78#t=328s
From the Oklahoma State game 2010:
Screen catch and run, ball stripped, fumble recovered by Cowboys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZHzARaArg1M#t=26s
Dolphins will take Josh Gordon.
Watch.
Watch.
crossfit93
Practice Squad
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2010
- Messages
- 304
- Reaction score
- 2
i would give a 6th round pick for this guy, but nothing more... maybe he's the next cris carter
insomnia411
The world is yours
I remember Josh Gordon from Baylor in 2010... Impressive physical ability.
I'd say 4th round or later bring him in.
I'd say 4th round or later bring him in.
RealDriscoll
Still Perfect.. and You're Not.
I am a fan of Josh Gordon. A guy who stands 6"4 and can run between a 4.3-4.4 forty who was very productive at Baylor. In 2010 he hauled in 7 touchdown passes from RG3. I'd use a 5th Rounder on him, possibly a 4th but nothing more.
Seantrel Henderson cannot be drafted. He's only going to be a true junior this year and is not 3 years removed from HS, thus not draft eligible.