Tarantino's Kill Wanny 2: Revenge of Finheaven

[WharfRat]

Quite a novel there Boomer, any chance they will make a movie out of it. I think I will just wait for it to hit the big screen.

Coming to a TV near you in just under 125 Days.
Can't wait to see how it ends.... how about you?

 

[LarryFinFan]

NC, devils advocate is no problem...total negativity is not right though....You want to dis AJ because Jay was treated poorly ??? I don't understand that. If Sage has twice the arm, how come RS didn't name him the starter or even mention him in the "competition." Sage must not have the potential that you see or else he would have had a better opportunity. He hasn't shown anything to me thru last camp or during the year. Did you do some seperate studies on Sage that RS didn't ?? Perhaps you can let RS in on what you have found...and why didn't you do it before the made the trade for AJ...that would have saved us a 2nd round pick...What kind of Fin fan are you anyways ??? Then you personally dis AJ with the mother remark.

Your perogative is to dis who you want and when, but when other posters reads the rambling like in that post, they realize you are clueless too.

I'm not trying to make this personal, but you gotta lighten up a little..you'll enjoy the season more if you do...

BTW...Good post Boomer, even though it paints a rosy picture of our offseason so far. You are right that we can't count our chickens (good or bad) just yet....

 

[NCFINFAN38]

Yes... you most certainly can play "devil's advocate". However, if that's all you got out of that post, than I believe you missed the point completely. The point was we don't know if AJ sucks yet... do we?
... I'll give you this... I'll concede the fact that I don't know for sure that AJ will be good at this point in time.... if you concede the fact that you don't know for sure that AJ sucks at this point in time. The fact is, that neither of us will have any proof of how AJ will be, until he plays his first game with us.

I'll concede to a point, but I don't agree with the logic that says just because we don't know, we should give him the keys to the palace. I would much rather see Sage get the chance that everyone was wanting him to get last year, before we give a 2nd pick to someone who has only played in 5 games in the NFL. Sage has a better arm and has looked very good in the limited time he has seen the field. Sage like AJ is an unknown, so why not make it a fair competition, letting Sage get as much time with the starters as AJ?
As you logic goes, since neither of us can predict the future, then I should get a shot as well. You don't KNOW FOR SURE how I would play. Lets give me a shot. Or just throw in the beerman, it would be nice if AJ had given someone a reason to believe in him.....other than RS saw something in him.

 

[WharfRat]

You're kidding right? The beerman?
How about we drop the sarcasm, and have an intelligent discussion.
How many teams would let you or the beerman on the field. I'd say none. Now how many would be willing to give AJ a shot? can't say for sure...maybe not many, but I'd tend to think it would be more than zero.
You want open competition with Sage? The same Sage who has 5 fewer NFL starts than AJ? (another zero... hmmm, I see a pattern here) If Sage was lighting them up in training camps and/or preseason the last few years... he'd have that shot at the starters role. As it stands....all you've done is say that Sage needs a shot (even though he's been on the team for how many years? and proved what to earn that shot?) Then you dis AJ for not having proven anything... (carefully omitting the fact that at least AJ has NFL starts under his belt). do I note a double standard here? or is your sarcasm overwhelming your logic?

 

[Coral Reefer]

I agree with most.....

As I've posted a few times.
If mini camps meant ANYTHING, Jay Fiedler and Robert Baker would have been the next coming of Montana to Rice! These two have been highlight reel performers in a couple of camps. Going into many camps completely against Fiedler as our QB, he has turned my viewpoint on him around in 2 minicamps by his PRACTICE play. I actually got excited about him in these 2 camps only to see him return to his inconsistent self in games. Robert Baker...... never has even made the team. Many players are great "practice" players. Boomer is right in that this time of year players are working on technique and changes to that technique which may make them better. If they look horrible they simply may be trying out different methods in technique to see how it works. Similar to pitchers in MLB during spring training. Some of the best pitchers use Spring training to fool with pitches or try new pitches. Because of this, their ERA may be astronomical in Spring but when the real season starts they are back to normal again.

AJ Feeley just got here.
He has a lot to learn and you won't see who he really is until the second preseason game earliest.
As far as Feeley not getting a fair chance from the fans.... that dosen't go for me. I am an avid AJ fan. He is our only chance to upgrade a lacking position. He only needs to show he can manage a game at a mediocre level to equal the play that we've had in the past. I think he can achieve that level at the beginning of the season while he continues to learn the offense and improve his skills through the season as our starter. Fingers crossed.

Lineman.... You can tell nothing in minicamps about these guys.
You won't know how much Wade Smith has improved if at all until you get in some full speed pad practice.

Boston is another issue.
This issue does indeed deserve attention however because it is a question of a troubled players mental approach and attitude issues. Only time will tell how that goes.
I love how the FO is handling Boston on this issue though. Applying direct pressure to put up or shut up. I did'nt think they were capable of laying down the law like that. Kudos!

All in all, there's a long way to go before we know what this team will look like come opening day.

 

[Coral Reefer]

Sage like AJ is an unknown, so why not make it a fair competition, letting Sage get as much time with the starters as AJ?

This sentiment I can agree with.
Bringing back Jay Fiedler destroyed this option however and is why I was and still am vehimently against that move.
This team was determined to turn over a new leaf and go into another direction with the QB position. Jay Fiedler was unknown and unproven when they brought him in and handed over the keys to the franchise to him. The Fiedler expirement didn't go as well as they would have liked to so they went looking for another unknown with starter potential to bet on.

Fine with me, but if you are going to do it..... DO IT!
Bring in a vet FA and let him know he is the backup and let 2 young guys with potential battle it out to see who is given the chance to show his "potential" while being the starting QB for the Fins. Wanny however, talked Speilman out of it and here we sit with Fiedler still hanging around, a new guy who may never get a real chance because Wanny may feel too comfortable with Fiedler and another young guy who may have great potential that will NEVER get the chance to show it.... Sage.

 

[burghPhinFan]

AJ wasn't the sexy name that people wanted. Despite teams nearly trading 3rd rounders for him, he will never get a true and fair shot with Miami fans. And that's sad. Really sad.

No, I think if he outplays Jay and they win, the fans will get behind him. I think there's a QB void left from Marino that hasn't quite been filled yet. I get the feeling the fans just want someone in there that can be consistently good, put the team on their shoulders from time to time if need be. It seemed with Jay, despite his winning record, there were times when the game came down to him having to make plays and he just couldn't get it done. Which was hard to take having been spoiled by Danny for all those years. I understand the fans anxiousness about AJ (I'm one of them!), but we as fans just have to put our faith and trust into RS's hands and hope he pulled the right trigger. We'll find out come September.

 

[Boomer]

The fans never got behind Jay because he wasn't a sexy name QB. That's the truth. He has a great won/lost record in Miami and all the time that he was getting blamed, people were avoiding the fact that no WR's other than Chambers could get open, that the OL couldn't block for toffee and our much vaunted defense can NEVER get a team off the field on 3rd down.

I'm not backing Jay, I'm not trying to make out he was great, but he was better than a lot of people let on. Yes he has limitations but I'm saying that sometimes objectivity isn't always at the fore and that people are quick to call Jay out because he's not the sexy passer. People wanted Lucas because he had the big arm, he was different, they had seen the success of Vick and Kordell. But then the proved he wasn't fit to lace Fiedler's jock. Onto the next. Griese come sin - wow, big name guy. Guy can't blow wind up his own arse under center. You see what I mean?

 

[eltos_lightfoot]

Boomer you are killing me!!! :roflmao: This is good stuff. I agree with you all the way.

I don't think that AJ is going to be a top ten qb, but I don't think he is going to be bottom ten either. With an average qb, we can go all the way. That is my take on it, but like you pointed out, no one knows. No one will know until the regular season. Heck, I have bashed Feidler--and I am not saying start him over Feeley (yet). But with the job he did against Washington, the idea of him coming off the bench appeals to me...

--Edited for coherence...

 

[NCFINFAN38]

The fans never got behind Jay because he wasn't a sexy name QB. That's the truth. He has a great won/lost record in Miami and all the time that he was getting blamed, people were avoiding the fact that no WR's other than Chambers could get open, that the OL couldn't block for toffee and our much vaunted defense can NEVER get a team off the field on 3rd down.

I'm not backing Jay, I'm not trying to make out he was great, but he was better than a lot of people let on. Yes he has limitations but I'm saying that sometimes objectivity isn't always at the fore and that people are quick to call Jay out because he's not the sexy passer. People wanted Lucas because he had the big arm, he was different, they had seen the success of Vick and Kordell. But then the proved he wasn't fit to lace Fiedler's jock. Onto the next. Griese come sin - wow, big name guy. Guy can't blow wind up his own arse under center. You see what I mean?

WOW Boomer, I agree with the whole post. I feel like I should go check to make sure I am feeling alright. lol Is this another one of your attempts at sarcasm?? :D I thought you were one of the ones who was on the "lets go run Jay out of town" bandwagons?? Maybe your alright after all.

 

[RevRick]

Ah, Tim... To bad we don't have the Holy Handgrenade. Then we could blow our enemies to tiny bits.

 

[burghPhinFan]

 

[Coral Reefer]

The fans never got behind Jay because he wasn't a sexy name QB. That's the truth. He has a great won/lost record in Miami and all the time that he was getting blamed, people were avoiding the fact that no WR's other than Chambers could get open, that the OL couldn't block for toffee and our much vaunted defense can NEVER get a team off the field on 3rd down.

You are simply painting a one sided picture here of the reasons why fans may dislike Jay Fiedler.

I'm suprised an astute football mind as yourself would even pull out this TEAM won lost record argument.
A QB is not solely responsible for a won/lost record with a team.
The team is responsible.
A team no matter how good or bad has bad and good players.
Some teams lose many games in spite of good players being on the roster and some teams win many games in spite of bad players being on the roster.
I for one am a little sick of people coming to the conclusion that because Miami is a winning team that Jay Fiedler is a top tier QB and led them to that record.

The Ravens won a super bowl with Trent Dilfer and the Lions could never make the playoffs with Barry Sanders at RB. With the mentality of some on here that makes Trent Dilfer a Hall of Famer and Barry Sanders a castaway.
Surely you can't agree with that.

The OL argument is null and void as well considering that Jay Fiedler has been here for four seasons and not just last year when the OL became a negative. Defenses have keyed on our running game ever since Jay Fiedler came here. Previous years we were still able to run the ball even with stacked defensive fronts. The OL had to be playing at least on a competitive level to pull that off. The difference last year was not the effect of OL on QB play it was the effect of OL play on our Running game results. Inconsistent QB play has been consistent for Jay's entire tenure here. Doubt me, just watch some game tapes and see how defenses have played us and tell me any D-Coordinator respects Jay Fiedler's abilities.

Jay earned his negative reputation here fair and square!

 

[xiidaen]

I'm suprised an astute football mind as yourself would even pull out this TEAM won lost record argument.
A QB is not solely responsible for a won/lost record with a team.
The team is responsible.
A team no matter how good or bad has bad and good players.
...
Jay earned his negative reputation here fair and square!

I agree that the team record is the product of the effort of the whole team, but it seems the Fiedler does not get any credit for his part of that record. Each year, there is another new name at backup who will take the starting position away from Fiedler. Remember the calls to start Lucas? Remember when the hiring of Griese prompted the next storm of booing and chants?

Lucas: 2-4 (counting week 13 as a loss)
Fiedler: 7-4 (counting week 13 as a loss)

Griese: 2-2 (without the Washington game, which he was clearly losing)
Fielder: 7-4 (without the Washington game, where he sparked the team victory)

I think the fact that Fiedler is doing significantly better with the same teams than his replacements is overlooked by the most using the 'team win' argument. In the past, Fiedler has been the QB that puts the team in a position to win.

If AJ wins the competition and using him wins more games than using Jay, then I'm all for it. But in the past, it's been players like Lucas who look good in camp, but the coaches see that Fielder is the better player for the team and he's the one who starts.

BTW: Boomer, great post!

 

[FinaticPatch]

I agree that the team record is the product of the effort of the whole team, but it seems the Fiedler does not get any credit for his part of that record. Each year, there is another new name at backup who will take the starting position away from Fiedler. Remember the calls to start Lucas? Remember when the hiring of Griese prompted the next storm of booing and chants?

Lucas: 2-4 (counting week 13 as a loss)
Fiedler: 7-4 (counting week 13 as a loss)

Griese: 2-2 (without the Washington game, which he was clearly losing)
Fielder: 7-4 (without the Washington game, where he sparked the team victory)

I think the fact that Fiedler is doing significantly better with the same teams than his replacements is overlooked by the most using the 'team win' argument. In the past, Fiedler has been the QB that puts the team in a position to win.

If AJ wins the competition and using him wins more games than using Jay, then I'm all for it. But in the past, it's been players like Lucas who look good in camp, but the coaches see that Fielder is the better player for the team and he's the one who starts.

BTW: Boomer, great post!

I could never make a case for lucas here but lets look at Grieses opponents compared to Jays. Hey lets look at there record against playoff opponents

I believe Greiese was 1-2 and Jay was 1-3
And against non playoff teams Griese 1-0 and Jay was 6-1

Lets look at winning percentages
Griese had a 33% winning percentage against playoff teams.
also had a 100% winning percentage against non playoff teams.

Fiedler 25% playoff teams
86% non playoff


when you look at it that way it would make you believe Griese was the better guy for the job. Heck When you get to the playoffs your gonna face playoff team and Griese had a better record against them.