The Dolphins can learn from this...

[baracuda]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/peter_king/05/03/mmqb/index.html

Peter King talks about the Niners on draft day. I love their strategy. Patience and value....

"So here were the Niners, sitting at No. 16, hoping against hope that one particular receiver would fall to them: LSU's Michael Clayton. They weren't going to trade up because Donahue thought the cost would be too much, particularly in light of the fact that San Francisco wanted to keep 20 picks in the next two drafts to help the team get younger and more salary-cap friendly. And so when the Bucs, at No. 15, took Clayton, the 49ers thought a bunch of the remaining receivers were clustered together. They favored Oklahoma State's consistent and productive (but not overly athletic) Rashaun Woods. They traded down with Philadelphia, going from No. 16 to No. 28 and picking up the Eagles' second-rounder. Then they moved from 28 to 31 after a deal with Carolina, gaining a fourth-rounder. The 49ers got Woods at 31, guard Justin Smiley with their own second-rounder (good pick -- he was the No. 2 guard on many draft boards), and a huge risk pick, Pitt cornerback Shawntae Spencer, with their low two acquired from the Eagles. "We loved his workout," Donahue said of Spencer, which scares me. One personnel chief I spoke with last week said Spencer had a poor final year at Pitt, doesn't tackle well and only rose up the charts late in the pre-draft frenzy because he runs slightly under a 4.4-second 40. Doesn't do much good if the guy's not a top-notch football player.

Donahue traded up early on day two to pick nose man Isaac Sopoaga, a guy the Patriots really liked until they got Vince Wilfork in the first round. Good value there."

If the Dolphins front office ever grows a brain it ought to pursue the draft the way the Niners did. At least, if you want to look good on draft day you do what they did. Obviously some of all those extra picks have to pan out for you, but I like the strategy. Unless you are so sure you've got a 99% guaranteed super star that is how I draft for my team - the way the Niners did it on draft day.

 

[3P]

We used that strategy too. Just not in the first round. We needed a Lineman, and we got one... we didn't really have a chance to trade back because of the lack of Oline depth in this draft. We did, however trade back out of the 3rd and pick up a guy we would have picked there in Will Poole. He was projected as a 1st or 2nd round prospect, and we got him in the 4th. We also picked up a few extra picks that we used to get some pretty solid players. I don't see your point, really.

 

[fin-atic]

Good post. I think Miamni worked the late rounds well. I feel we are going to miss having a 2nd and 3rd rounder. Thats a big fall off in talent form the first round to the fourth round, then we picked a CB, which although promising, was not a need. I would love to have seen those OL, LB picks with 2nd round and third round talent.

We won't know if SF or if the Fins did a good job until after the season. Who knows maybe Miami's late rounders will be more productive than SFs early rounders.

But so far I am unimpressed with our front office and Speilman.

 

[ckparrothead]

I don't see any difference between their strategy and ours. Just different need areas. With the WR position being as deep as it was, the difference between Clayton, Reggie, and the gang, and the lower clump of guys like Jenkins, Woods, Evans, and Henderson, was not all that great. So the 49ers missed out on Clayton and Williams, that just meant they could trade down and still get a 1st round caliber WR.

Miami didnt have that luxury. Our WR position is fine. F-I-N-E. But we've got huge gaping holes on the OL especially at OT, and once Carey was gone, the next best OTs were who? Jacob Rogers in round 2, who the Phins did not like, and then Max Starks, Travelle Wharton in round 3, Nat Dorsey and Stacey Andrews (who I personally feel will amount to nothing in the NFL) in round 4. Sure, Dorsey could have been a steal, or he could have been a bonafied 4th rounder. Either way, if you don't get a Vernon Carey, we go to war this season with an offensive line that looks like Wade Smith, Jeno James, Seth McKinney, Greg Jerman, and John St Clair. I've got news for you. Thats not even as good as last year's horrible OL. Ricky would be running nowhere, especially on the right side which has been a bread and butter side for us with Todd Wade there. Our brand new QB would have very little time to throw, and our acquiring David Boston would be wasted because once again we would run into the problem of the offense not being able to stay on the field long enough to distribute enough balls between our talented weapons. We would have maybe two 800 yard WRs, or an 800 yard guy and a 700 yard guy.

This is basically what happened last year when we lost out on Gandy. One injury and then we paid the price. At least by giving up a 4th round pick to make sure we got Carey, we have a CHANCE at fielding a complete team this season...which would give us a better chance than most at making a super bowl run. It would just be a matter of luck from there, as always, how your injuries happen and whatnot.

 

[baracuda]

We used that strategy too. Just not in the first round. We needed a Lineman, and we got one... we didn't really have a chance to trade back because of the lack of Oline depth in this draft. We did, however trade back out of the 3rd and pick up a guy we would have picked there in Will Poole. He was projected as a 1st or 2nd round prospect, and we got him in the 4th. We also picked up a few extra picks that we used to get some pretty solid players. I don't see your point, really.

Walk away from the subjective thoughts on who we got where, and look at the substance of what SF did. How many picks did they have? They were high on one player with the first pick. That player was gone before they had a chance to take him. And rather then get desperate, like the Dolphins did, and trade up a few spots just to get that one player, the Niners traded down and started accumulating picks, and still got their 2nd best man.

Meanwhile, they've now accumulated several new picks just by being patient and going from #16 to #31. So now, look at what the Niners did, in comparison to what the Dolphins did.

• The Niners dropped in the first round, still getting a decent player, meanwhile adding two additional picks. They have three players, versus their original one, meanwhile not really losing anything.

• The Dolphins on the other hand got nervous and desperate by hearing rumors about the #19 pick. They lost their poker face and traded up one spot, getting their #2 guy (Gallery was #1), meanwhile losing a 4th round pick. What's to say Miami couldn't have traded down a few spots and picked up maybe a 3rd round pick? No patience and they gave away a pick. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Maybe I am old school, but half of these draft picks don't pan out anyway. I would play the odds and if I had the opportunity I would always add picks when I could, and trade down every time. Unless I am dead set sure that I have a sure thing in a player (which is like never), then I add the picks and trade down for value.

Put it this way - how many players do the Dolphins have because JJ or Shula traded down and added depth to their draft? And when was the last time the Dolphins had a full compliment of draft picks? We've been slowly pissing away our future, betting on specific players that may or may not pan out.

Granted, I make the Ricky Williams trade again, and 100 times over. But even Ricky was a gamble I probably would even not consider making if I covet my draft picks as much as I should.

 

[3P]

Walk away from the subjective thoughts on who we got where, and look at the substance of what SF did. How many picks did they have? They were high on one player with the first pick. That player was gone before they had a chance to take him. And rather then get desperate, like the Dolphins did, and trade up a few spots just to get that one player, the Niners traded down and started accumulating picks, and still got their 2nd best man.

Meanwhile, they've now accumulated several new picks just by being patient and going from #16 to #31. So now, look at what the Niners did, in comparison to what the Dolphins did.

• The Niners dropped in the first round, still getting a decent player, meanwhile adding two additional picks. They have three players, versus their original one, meanwhile not really losing anything.

• The Dolphins on the other hand got nervous and desperate by hearing rumors about the #19 pick. They lost their poker face and traded up one spot, getting their #2 guy (Gallery was #1), meanwhile losing a 4th round pick. What's to say Miami couldn't have traded down a few spots and picked up maybe a 3rd round pick? No patience and they gave away a pick. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Maybe I am old school, but half of these draft picks don't pan out anyway. I would play the odds and if I had the opportunity I would always add picks when I could, and trade down every time. Unless I am dead set sure that I have a sure thing in a player (which is like never), then I add the picks and trade down for value.

Put it this way - how many players do the Dolphins have because JJ or Shula traded down and added depth to their draft? And when was the last time the Dolphins had a full compliment of draft picks? We've been slowly pissing away our future, betting on specific players that may or may not pan out.

Granted, I make the Ricky Williams trade again, and 100 times over. But even Ricky was a gamble I probably would even not consider making if I covet my draft picks as much as I should.

That is all fine and dandy... but lets look at the needed positions...

SF was looking WR, and had probably 5 or so WR with 1st round grades that they liked. They had the good fortune of there not being a big difference between their #1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 guys. If they traded back and half those guys got taken... big deal they get similar talent with one of the lesser ranked WR.

Miami was in a completely different situation. They had 2, maybe 3 people rated as 1st round OT's. By the time their pick was comming around, they only had 1 guy left on the board... with no one behind that. Only an idiot trades down when your only 1st round rated target is left on the board. Maybe they jumped the gun and traded the 4th needlessly... but many different sources (including Carey himself) have confirmed the rumors that the Pats wanted him. I'll give up a 4th rounder any day of the week to get a targeted player with a very very good chance to start, as opposed to being stuck drafting someone like wilkford who would be the #3 DT this year at best... possibly even #4. With the state of the OL, miami didn't have the ablility to draft for depth with their first pick. Doing so would have been suicide for the offense.

 

[Muck]

Damn, I have to go now. So I didn't get a chance to read everybody's posts (though they look good). But CK, I must say.....we're sharing a brain again.

 

[Agua]

Damn, I have to go now. So I didn't get a chance to read everybody's posts (though they look good). But CK, I must say.....we're sharing a brain again.

Yup, put both your heads together and you come pretty close to one brain.

:roflmao:

Sorry, you set yourself up for that one.

 

[feelthepain]

Walk away from the subjective thoughts on who we got where, and look at the substance of what SF did. How many picks did they have? They were high on one player with the first pick. That player was gone before they had a chance to take him. And rather then get desperate, like the Dolphins did, and trade up a few spots just to get that one player, the Niners traded down and started accumulating picks, and still got their 2nd best man.

Meanwhile, they've now accumulated several new picks just by being patient and going from #16 to #31. So now, look at what the Niners did, in comparison to what the Dolphins did.

• The Niners dropped in the first round, still getting a decent player, meanwhile adding two additional picks. They have three players, versus their original one, meanwhile not really losing anything.

• The Dolphins on the other hand got nervous and desperate by hearing rumors about the #19 pick. They lost their poker face and traded up one spot, getting their #2 guy (Gallery was #1), meanwhile losing a 4th round pick. What's to say Miami couldn't have traded down a few spots and picked up maybe a 3rd round pick? No patience and they gave away a pick. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Maybe I am old school, but half of these draft picks don't pan out anyway. I would play the odds and if I had the opportunity I would always add picks when I could, and trade down every time. Unless I am dead set sure that I have a sure thing in a player (which is like never), then I add the picks and trade down for value.

Put it this way - how many players do the Dolphins have because JJ or Shula traded down and added depth to their draft? And when was the last time the Dolphins had a full compliment of draft picks? We've been slowly pissing away our future, betting on specific players that may or may not pan out.

Granted, I make the Ricky Williams trade again, and 100 times over. But even Ricky was a gamble I probably would even not consider making if I covet my draft picks as much as I should.

Yea I hear ya' what you are saying but what you refuse to understand is: 1) We did not need a WR the deepest position in the draft. 2) We did not have a second rd draft pick, which at this point IMO was more then fair considering what we trded for that pick in Wade Smith. 3) The talent level for takles, as CK already pointed out, was not going to be there after Carey was gone. 4)If we had traded down rather then up most likely NE would have picked up Carey and the they Would have taken Wilfork as well, to me I'm glad we did not let NE have Carey it's not that I'm just wanting Carey so NE doesn't get him but our needs are much more pressing at that position then theirs.

Considering what we have and the lack of picks as a result, I'm happy with.
I'll also be willing to bet that SF FO would also be happy with Ricky,JR...?,W.Smith,D.Boston in their lineup all by giving up picks to obtain, instead of the young unproven talent they have from their "patient draft".
What I'm trying to say is we had a very good draft add to that the players picked up by trading some picks and I will take the players we have over their's (SF). You should be too.

 

[Rick 1966]

Miami didnt have that luxury. Our WR position is fine. F-I-N-E.

I don't think I agree with that. We have two excellent starting WRs in Chambers and Boston, but we really have no sure thing at 3rd WR and the way seasons go, we WILL need one...because at some point our 3rd WR will likely have to become our 2nd WR for a game or three.

 

[DolphinzD]

I don't think I agree with that. We have two excellent starting WRs in Chambers and Boston, but we really have no sure thing at 3rd WR and the way seasons go, we WILL need one...because at some point our 3rd WR will likely have to become our 2nd WR for a game or three.

I'm with you there, but it sure beats last year, when we only had one excellent starting wide receiver.

 

[PhinstiGator]

...If the Dolphins front office ever grows a brain it ought to pursue the draft the way the Niners did...

It would be dumb to not draft the players that you wanted to draft. The Dolphins had one player left on there draft board that they wanted to select in the first round...and you want them to risk losing that player. :shakeno:

The Niners had a handful of other players that were still on their 1st round draft board. Your "grows a brain" comment doesn't pass the smell test. The object is not to get more draft picks...the object is to get the best players that fit the teams system.

The Dolphins are a run first team that needed to get a starting quality RT. Spielman was going to do what it took to get Carey or Andrews. You might think that is dumb...but, I think Carey is just what this team needed after Andrews came off the board.

I don't know how you had your draft board set up and how many months you put into scouting the players...but you calling Spielman "dumb" is a little over the top when you don't even know what was on the Dolphin draft board.

Spielman did not give away draft picks this year for Feeley & Boston. He preserved what he had and stayed faithful to his draft board. The fact that the Niners had more to work with and had different team needs does not translate to the Niners are smarter than the Dolphins.

 

[Mile High Fin]

The Fins FO did a solid job with what they had.
Trading the 4th rounder to guarantee we get a top RT was what we had to do this year.....because it was our most GLARING need....
Now, we should be set at RT for many years to come....

**Nice job RS**

 

[ckparrothead]

I don't think I agree with that. We have two excellent starting WRs in Chambers and Boston, but we really have no sure thing at 3rd WR and the way seasons go, we WILL need one...because at some point our 3rd WR will likely have to become our 2nd WR for a game or three.

Your concern is understandable, but we went a whole year last year with the WR position that we would face now if either Boston or Chambers went down for a game or three, and I don't call that half bad as far as injury insurance goes. We did go 10-6 last season...and I know our offense struggled, but every team is vulnerable to injuries, and having Derrius Thompson as our 3rd WR makes us no more vulnerable than many teams in terms of injury at the WR position...in fact it makes us less vulnerable than some of them IMO.

Here's the thing. Would you rather have allocated our first (and fourth) rounder toward injury insurance at the wide receiver position, or would you rather have allocated it to a starter at right tackle on the offensive line? Me, I would much rather use the resources to make sure that things are going right up front from game 1 on rather than making sure things go right on the outside in the event that a guy gets injured...

 

[ZOD]

Why does every situation have to be compared to the Dolphins?

Here is a comparison to think about....

Watch the 49ers success this year versus the AFC east. They might just lose all of them.