The Most Productive and Efficient Pure Pass Rushers in the NFL

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Oct 27, 2010.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I track how pass rushers are doing across the NFL. Some of you who follow me on Twitter probably hear me talking about Cameron Wake and Koa Misi a lot and how they're looking relative to other pass rushers.

    One thing I like to do is award points for sacks (3), hits (2), pressures (1) and batted passes (2). I think of all of those as encompassing what it means to be a good pure pass rusher. Sacks are probably the best plays you can make. You get a hit on the QB (which is always good, like a body blow in a boxing match), you turn the play into a failure, plus the other team loses yardage. I think hits are very important too. Quarterbacks that get hit often throw errant balls which can be picked off. A batted pass to me is just as well, if you managed to get into the passing lane and get your hands up, you not only kill the play dead but you've dramatically increased your chances of a popped up interception off the batted ball. That's why I award those two (hits and batted passes) the same. Finally is the pressure. Getting pressure on a QB forces him to acknowledge you and takes his mind off the field. He may scramble away from you but it dramatically increases your chances of an incomplete, a sack once he resets, or even an interception.

    So anyway, it's simple. What I like to do after I award the points is see who is the most efficient. Last year, by points alone, you'd never know that Cameron Wake was about to set the league on fire, unless you really tracked efficiency. It was the fact that he was affecting the QB once every 4.1 times he rushed the passer, which is absurdly effective, that helped tell us (in addition to our eyes) that this guy is something special.

    On the left you'll find the most productive from among pass rushers that have rushed the passer 100+ times. On the right the most efficient, from among pass rushers that have rushed the passer 100+ times. The points per pass rush are multiplied by 100 for ease of reading.

    You'll notice that Cameron Wake is very close to the most efficient pass rusher in the NFL. The most efficient is actually Tamba Hali, who terrorized Ryan Clady a year ago. Hali was one of the most efficient and productive pass rushers a year ago as well.

    But check out who occupies the 5th and 6th most efficient pass rush spots in the NFL. Sometimes, things are just weird. The Dolphins ditch a 3-4 OLB because of (insert mysterious issue here) and draft a guy in his place, the guy they ditched goes bonkers in pass rush efficiency but the guy who replaces him is already one of the most efficient and productive pure pass rushers as a rookie. This Cam Wake/Koa Misi tandem is going to be a lot like James Harrison and Lamarr Woodley up in Pittsburgh. Very similar. Harrison was late to the party, had to scrape his way up the ladder and broke out at about the same age Wake did. In comes rookie Woodley opposite him and Woodley tears it up in his first year. Now they're one of the best tandems out there. Wake and Misi, in time, will be as well.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  2. Scrap

    Scrap Hall Of Famer

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    Good stuff. Thanks.
     
  3. SRM

    SRM Scout Team

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    Nice read! I also love how Jason Taylor and Joey Porter are right near each other towards the bottom on both charts.. anyone still wanting them here?
     
  4. hrpuffin

    hrpuffin Well-Known Member

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    How about factoring how many time a guy is held. Holding calls can change the game almost as much as a sack. Seems like Wake gets held alot! Just curious how the holding calls on wake compare to the other guys on the list. Great stuff though, very informative.
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Been asked about holding, false starts, etc. I have no way to track that stuff unfortunately.

    You know what's messed up?

    If you voted for Koa Misi for the Pro Bowl, you wouldn't be RIDICULOUSLY homerific. You could just be recognizing that Tamba Hali, Cameron Wake, Matt Roth and Koa Misi are the most efficient pass rushers in the AFC.
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Now I have, of course, emphasized the upside.

    The downside of this is, Matt Roth is 100% a better player than Koa Misi this year, and not only that but he's one of the best 3-4 OLBs in the NFL. And that's for really real. He's made plays in coverage, he's as good against the run as you'd imagine, and he's making all kinds of noise as a pass rusher.

    And so this is where reality strikes. If Miami had simply kept Roth, they could have exercised the #12 pick on someone like Dez Bryant, and Miami would have Matt Roth and Dez Bryant rather than Jared Odrick and Koa Misi.

    And THAT hurts. Right now, anyway. I'm not going to say something stupid like Koa Misi will definitely be better than Matt Roth one day because we can't predict the future. Nor am I going to pretend that Jared Odrick sucks though, because I was very impressed with him before he went out. It is what it is.
     
  7. oasis

    oasis Lost in the fog

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    How interesting it is that Matt Roth is near the top in efficiency as well. I find the handling of the Roth situation as well as Will Allen two of the most curious moves this regime has made, and I'm still wanting a good explanation on both.
     
  8. IronChef

    IronChef A True Fan

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    You and me both brother
     
  9. beanh8er

    beanh8er A True Fan Donator

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    :bobdole: That's a sad thought. Didn't Matt Roth miss like 6 games last year due to injury?
     
  10. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

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    With Parcells out the picture, we won't have this weird personal thingys lol
     
  11. tylerdolphin

    tylerdolphin More Smug than Birthday Dog Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    I remember being pretty mad when we cut him and most everyone was saying that he sucked...He was VERY underrated during his time here. Still blows my mind that we released him for NOTHING with nobody even there to replace him.
     
  12. Phins28

    Phins28 A True Fan

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    LaMarr Woodley entire rookie season: 14 tackles 4.0 sacks
    Koa Misi: 14 tackles 4.0 sacks
     
  13. CW_McGraw

    CW_McGraw Scout Team

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    To be fair, Pittsburgh rarely starts rookies. Woodley didn't play much in his first year.
     
  14. Scoffaveli

    Scoffaveli Well-Known Member

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    awesome...somebody please please please tell omar this so he can stop saying we need another pass rusher opposite Wake
     
  15. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Starter

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    I don't get it.

    "On the left you'll find the most productive from among pass rushers that have rushed the passer 100+ times. On the right the most efficient, from among pass rushers that have rushed the passer 100+ times. The points per pass rush are multiplied by 100 for ease of reading."

    How do you define the bolded terms?

    Because the 3 columns of numbers in both these charts are exactly the same for each player and I don't see what is creating the different ranking (layout on my screen is not left/right but one above the other also, did something get cutoff which might explain things?).
     
  16. baseballcb95

    baseballcb95 A True Fan

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    Mine is displayed the same way, take for example wake and hall.

    Wake has accumulated 62 'points' while Hall has recorded 58 'points'. Wake is more productive.

    BUT!

    It took wake 16 extra pass rushes to accumulate those 4 extra points. Making Hall more efficient.

    Basically, hall gets more points on average everytime he rushes the QB, but wake has more points. Either way wake is 1st in production and 2nd in efficiency ;]
     
  17. Lord Of Miami

    Lord Of Miami A True Fan

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    We still need another pass rusher.If Wake isn't getting near QB's we don't get any real pass rush.

    Misi gets stats because he's a very active player, he's still no where near a " good " pass rusher.

    Misi could become that guy but right now he's just not there.
     
  18. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Starter

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    Ok, that helps, thanks.

    "They said there would be no Math!" :)
     
  19. Mile High Fin

    Mile High Fin Pro Bowler

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    Great info, and great analysis.

    This is the kind of information that GMs & scouting services use to evaluate players.
    It's nice to get a taste of the reality, rather than just a player's reputation, etc.
     
  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Another thing I don't see mentioned all that much is that because of the way Miami is using Koa Misi, he is GENERALLY rushing a lot more over left tackle than right tackle. The Misi-Wake tandem tends to be strong/weak oriented on base downs but right/left on pass downs, and most of Misi's snaps have been on pass downs, and so the sacks, hits and pressures that he is earning, he's earning from the likes of Bryant McKinnie, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Matt Light, Chad Clifton and Max Starks, more often than not.
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    The left is sorted by production, the right is sorted by efficiency.

    So it's like if you had a table that shows Running Backs with their yards and yards per carry. The chart on the left would be sorted by total yards. The chart on the right would be sorted by yards per carry.

    And actually it's not left and right for some screens, it's top and bottom. There are two picture files, I intended for them to display side by side but on some displays it's just the one, and then the other below.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Based on what evidence? Because I just provided strong evidence that he is in fact a "good" pass rusher.
     
  23. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i don't think that if that breakdown is meant to indicate that koa misi is one of the most consistent pass rushers in the nfl its very accurate...cause while misi has had some sacks and i think i know of at least one of which was a coverage sack he hasn't since week 2 brought consistent pass rush pressure the last 4 games or so...

    what i do think he does a good job of when he doesn't provide quick pressure is leaving himself in good position to make plays on scrambling qbs near the los...

    but consistent initial pass rush pressure ...i haven't seen it lately...
     
  24. oasis

    oasis Lost in the fog

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    I agree with this, but would also point out that Misi's "style" of pass-rushing is very complementary to Wake. In a way it's almost preferable to having two Cam Wakes...(I probably wouldn't go that far, but hopefully the point isn't lost in the exaggeration).
     
  25. isaacjunk

    isaacjunk FinHeaven VIP

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    minor point ck, but to me a sack should be more like 4 points if a hit is 2. Getting hit by itself doesn't necessarily ruin the play but a sack guarantees not just 0 but negative yards. But in any case, awesome info!
     
  26. DevereauxWilson

    DevereauxWilson Rookie

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    As a counter argument, a qb could be protected beautiful most of the game, not even getting touched, and then a freak sack happens. Yes his team will lose a down and yardage but his mental make up doesn't necessarily change. Taking a sack can be a better option than intentional grounding in certain circumstances. A rusher consistently getting to the qb and laying hard hits and disrupt the timing and continuity of the offense.
     
  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    The evidence, both anecdotal and statistical, simply doesn't support that conclusion.
     
  28. hugoguzman

    hugoguzman FinHeaven VIP

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    Great stuff, CK.

    I think that your point about the caliber of pass blocker that Misi is going up against is very revealing.

    Regardless of anyone's subject opinion on Misi's ability to consistently pressure the quarterback, the fact that he's putting up these numbers just six games into his NFL career is extremely promising.

    Miami's 3-4 linebacker has gone from one of the oldest and most pedestrian in the NFL to one of the youngest and most productive.

    Props to the current regime.
     
  29. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    I like Wake he looks pretty good, and Misi is a sure tackler too
     

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