Will We Tag Wilkins? | Page 8 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Will We Tag Wilkins?

Springveldt said:
Mahomes had the #2 ranked defence (and it played like the #1 defence all through the playoffs), the best pass block win rate of any team by a significant margin and he still needed a luck bounce on a punt and a missed extra point to win the game.

The Texans were much better than you think on offence, a high pass block win rate and their receivers had some of the best separation metrics in the league.

Allen had a fully healthy offence all year, Knox is the only one who missed games and they had Kinkaid to cover for him. Yet he needed his defence to carry them to the playoffs and a punt return to beat a Miami team that was missing 9 starters.

Jackson had the #1 rushing attack and the #1 defence in the league and home field advantage and couldn't make it so the Superbowl.

I firmly believe this "QB carries their teams to victories" is wildly overblown.
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Exactly. It's way overblown.

If Jackson/ Allen and Mahomes don't have top defenses, Bills don't make the playoffs and the Ravens and Chiefs probably don't win their division.

If not for a record breaking day by Butker and the defense Mahomes is not wrongly receiving SB MVP.

Allen was as bad as some claim Tua was the last 5 games of the season. When you win a game throwing 100 yards or less and you win by 20+, you did not carry the team. When your defense gets you 4 TOS in the first half against NE, all inside the 30 and you come away with 13 points. You did not carry the team.

Mahomes and Allen have actually carried their teams to victories sure. Much like Tua against the Chargers this year, Bills and Lions last year. But neither carried their team to the playoffs.

When your defense is ranked top 4 in points allowed per game, your offense didn't carry anything.
Jackson needed 17 ppg to win
Mahomes needed 18 ppg to win
Allen needed 19 ppg to win.

Oh, by the way. Ravens/ Chiefs and Bills were ranked #1, #2 and #4 in PPG allowed respectfully.

This whole carried the team nonsense is over blown.
 
The Miami Dolphins have built around him over the past two seasons and surrounded him with the best talent. What left tackle is better than Armstead? Is there a better guard out there than Robert Hunt? What are your chances of finding a better center than Connor Williams? Austin Jackson won't be going anywhere? I guess this leaves Eichenburg? Tua has solid running backs and a top receiving core. What more do you want us to give Tua??? Everything can't be perfect. There is a reason why he was throwing to wide-open receivers at Alabama.

All you're doing is reinforcing that he needs everything to be perfect for him to be successful. Regardless of the data, I don't understand all this digging into Mahomes, Jackson, or Allen's performance to discredit whether or not they carry their teams. Players need to be evaluated on what is within their control and not on what they have no control over. When it comes down to Tua, it is not the fact that we lose games that matters; the issue is his poor performance, which contributed to the loss at the most crucial moment. In my opinion, the last time I can recall him playing well against a solid team was last year when he played against Buffalo on the road against a tough team. He played well and one of the rare times the team let Tua down.
 
Springveldt said:
I totally understand why you think this hamstrings the team, you don't believe Tua will ever lead the team anywhere. Meanwhile I look at last season as a positive in that it showed me that the team can still be competitive even when Tua has a God awful OL in front of him, that's actually a large positive. You have to remember that Miami had 44% of all offensive snaps taken by backups.

I don't think a QB can carry a team to a Superbowl win, they can certainly influence it but in the end the QB will need his team to stand up and make a play for him at some point. Might be receiver, might be a running back, might even be the defence but at some point plays will need to be made to help out the QB. It's just about limiting that number of plays and Tua is improving each year.

I'm of the opinion that Tua will be good enough to win a Superbowl at some point in his career and it's the first time I've felt that way about a QB in Miami since Marino.
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I hope you're right, after all Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl, but I don't like the odds.
 
Mr Fan said:
I hope you're right, after all Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl, but I don't like the odds.
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Well it's a good job Tua is magnitudes better than Dilfer and won't need a historical defence to win it (but it would certainly help make it easier).
 
RastaMan407 said:
The Miami Dolphins have built around him over the past two seasons and surrounded him with the best talent. What left tackle is better than Armstead? Is there a better guard out there than Robert Hunt? What are your chances of finding a better center than Connor Williams? Austin Jackson won't be going anywhere? I guess this leaves Eichenburg? Tua has solid running backs and a top receiving core. What more do you want us to give Tua??? Everything can't be perfect. There is a reason why he was throwing to wide-open receivers at Alabama.

All you're doing is reinforcing that he needs everything to be perfect for him to be successful. Regardless of the data, I don't understand all this digging into Mahomes, Jackson, or Allen's performance to discredit whether or not they carry their teams. Players need to be evaluated on what is within their control and not on what they have no control over. When it comes down to Tua, it is not the fact that we lose games that matters; the issue is his poor performance, which contributed to the loss at the most crucial moment. In my opinion, the last time I can recall him playing well against a solid team was last year when he played against Buffalo on the road against a tough team. He played well and one of the rare times the team let Tua down.
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Armstead missed 7 games and was questionable for another 5 of them. There are plenty of tackles better than him like Trent Williams and Laremy Tunsil.
Williams missed 9 games and was questionable for another 2 games. He might be the best centre in the league.
Hunt missed 6 games and was pulled from 2 games injured and also questionable for another game. He's a good guard but he's not as good as Zach Martin, Chris Lindstrom or Trey Smith.

Liam Eichenberg took the second most snaps on the OL this season. Lester Cotton took 616 snaps after only having 95 in his career. Rob Jones played for 418 snaps. That's 3 guys you would hope at the start of the season take less than 100 between them taking over 1800 snaps yet Tua was still top 5 in all QB metrics.

Everything wasn't perfect, things were actually pretty far from perfect.

As I've said before, playing behind that line, putting up those stats and beating the "poorer" teams comfortably should all be looked at in a very positive light.

@Ray R look Ray, I can answer questions! 😛
 
bward6460 said:
I don't think we'll tag him, but I do think we reach an extension. He's too important of a piece to lose. We're in a "all-in" window which likely isn't anymore than 2-3 years with last year being the first year. I can't imagine Grier would risk making this team definitively worse, which is what losing Wilkins will do.
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Ditch the homegrown and then bitch about how we have none!

This is a fan forum, healthy enough outlet to vent about loyalty to the Dolphins...not healthy if you're always unhappy. Don't see why you'd be a sports fan if it's so painful and tortuous for some of you.

Jersey has better Dolphins fans than Florida, fact.
 
DrMultimedia said:
I think he somewhat hurt himself in terms of sacks by sitting on the sidelines during training camp and preseason. He looked pretty slow and really tired at times. As the season moved on he got back in to playing shape.
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Christian actually got 9.5 sacks last season. I listened to Sirius NFL radio, they thought that it was a pretty good performance that his showed improvement.
 
Springveldt said:
Armstead missed 7 games and was questionable for another 5 of them. There are plenty of tackles better than him like Trent Williams and Laremy Tunsil.
Williams missed 9 games and was questionable for another 2 games. He might be the best centre in the league.
Hunt missed 6 games and was pulled from 2 games injured and also questionable for another game. He's a good guard but he's not as good as Zach Martin, Chris Lindstrom or Trey Smith.

Liam Eichenberg took the second most snaps on the OL this season. Lester Cotton took 616 snaps after only having 95 in his career. Rob Jones played for 418 snaps. That's 3 guys you would hope at the start of the season take less than 100 between them taking over 1800 snaps yet Tua was still top 5 in all QB metrics.

Everything wasn't perfect, things were actually pretty far from perfect.

As I've said before, playing behind that line, putting up those stats and beating the "poorer" teams comfortably should all be looked at in a very positive light.

@Ray R look Ray, I can answer questions! 😛
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An excellent review and full of facts - Love it.
 
Nugtron said:
Ditch the homegrown and then bitch about how we have none!

This is a fan forum, healthy enough outlet to vent about loyalty to the Dolphins...not healthy if you're always unhappy. Don't see why you'd be a sports fan if it's so painful and tortuous for some of you.

Jersey has better Dolphins fans than Florida, fact.
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Nailed it!!!
 
Springveldt said:
Armstead missed 7 games and was questionable for another 5 of them. There are plenty of tackles better than him like Trent Williams and Laremy Tunsil.
Williams missed 9 games and was questionable for another 2 games. He might be the best centre in the league.
Hunt missed 6 games and was pulled from 2 games injured and also questionable for another game. He's a good guard but he's not as good as Zach Martin, Chris Lindstrom or Trey Smith.

Liam Eichenberg took the second most snaps on the OL this season. Lester Cotton took 616 snaps after only having 95 in his career. Rob Jones played for 418 snaps. That's 3 guys you would hope at the start of the season take less than 100 between them taking over 1800 snaps yet Tua was still top 5 in all QB metrics.

Everything wasn't perfect, things were actually pretty far from perfect.

As I've said before, playing behind that line, putting up those stats and beating the "poorer" teams comfortably should all be looked at in a very positive light.

@Ray R look Ray, I can answer questions! 😛
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You still haven't answered my question. Who are we going to bring in? I never said it was perfect, I said we want everything to be perfect. Injuries are part of the game, it sucks, but what do teams do? Stop playing? I don't want to discredit his performance against teams below 500, he did what he was supposed to do. The question is, how do we bring in better players while paying him 40M+.

Again the offensive line had its share of injuries but so did the defense. Despite all of that while losing their best 2 pass rushers they made enough plays down the stretch, with Baltimore being the exception of bending and not breaking, especially against Buffalo.

Yall wanted to talk about a player putting his team on his back while being responsible for 3 turnovers and still managing to win the game. Tua needs to push through. Like I said losing is one thing but when your play is subpar it's a different story.
 
RastaMan407 said:
You still haven't answered my question. Who are we going to bring in? I never said it was perfect, I said we want everything to be perfect. Injuries are part of the game, it sucks, but what do teams do? Stop playing? I don't want to discredit his performance against teams below 500, he did what he was supposed to do. The question is, how do we bring in better players while paying him 40M+.

Again the offensive line had its share of injuries but so did the defense. Despite all of that while losing their best 2 pass rushers they made enough plays down the stretch, with Baltimore being the exception of bending and not breaking, especially against Buffalo.

Yall wanted to talk about a player putting his team on his back while being responsible for 3 turnovers and still managing to win the game. Tua needs to push through. Like I said losing is one thing but when your play is subpar it's a different story.
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The player that had 3 turnovers and still won the game won the game on a punt return while having every single starter on offence available all season long. How do you think the Miami offence would have looked if all 11 starters stayed healthy all year? When injuries get to the point that they are insurmountable you just can't shout that the QB needs to do something about it.

Paying Tua 40M+ doesn't mean he will count that straight away, he probably won't hit that figure against the cap until 2026 or even 2027 when the salary cap will be at 300M by then. This has been pointed out numerous times by multiple people yet is constantly ignored. By that point Tyreek, Ramsey, Chubb, Armstead are all gone and guys like Waddle, Phillips, Holland will be into their second contracts instead which will be cheaper at that point in time (but more like more expensive in 2028,2029 etc). The team has to start drafting better over the next few years to get cheaper guys who can contribute in other positions (like Achane this year and hopefully Cam Smith next year).

Also, who will we bring in if we lose Hunt and Williams? Considering we had Cotton, Eichenberg and Jones taking nearly half of the season snaps I'm betting we could bring in just about anyone that would be better than them. All 3 graded out poorly and the eye test confirmed it. Even then the offence and Tua still performed admirably considering who was actually starting games. There is a guy on Reddit who goes into much more detail than I'm willing to do, have a read of that...

 
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