Vikings Corner Xavier Rhodes Thinks X Should Get Paid | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Vikings Corner Xavier Rhodes Thinks X Should Get Paid

u cant keep losing all ur good players u draft. when you cannot draft good. the dolphins way. guy you should pay u do nt pay. guy u should nt pay u pay. guy u should keep u let them go because u don't want pay but guy u should cut u keep. if guy work hard and earn probowl. he should get paid. nfl is about money. players are out get what they can because they can only make money while they 30 under. owners are greedy as well. X go get ur money.
 
Different positions have different impacts.

Miami loses Jarvis and the offense goes from ****, to **** .

Miami loses X and the defense goes from ****, to ****? He had his best year and we had the worst defense in franchise history or thereabouts.

I get that CBs are important, arguably less interchangeable than receivers. That doesn't mean we should pay Xavien as a top CB in the league, and it doesn't mean trading him for draft picks is a bad idea.
 
I actually think there are similarities between Jarvis and X situations.

A lot of people wanted to pay Jarvis, and there are argument for it. I think he priced himself out based on his abilities and desire to get paid like one typically does in the open market. Similar situation with X. I won't be mad if we let him walk and take a comp pick or trade him, while I'm sure half the board would be furious.


I also see similarities, which scare me based on this team's superhuman ability to make the wrong decision.

The fins should've given Jarvis $11M after year 3 ... like people who know what they are talking about were clamoring for. They waited, got backed up against a wall and got a terrible return on their investment, which had since increased in value. Plus their moneyball way of replacing him didn't work out nor will the pick they got for him. Just like I predicted, this turned to be the worst possible scenario of outcomes and people here still try to give this blind team props for 'doing the right thing'. Impressive.

But WR is different. Much easier to find. It's like RB now with how easy it is to be a WR. They can't touch you ... just run good routes and don't fall down when a defender breathes on you too hard. Dime a dozen. Don't spend top resources unless you see generational talent. I wouldn't even entertain the idea until round 2. Dynamic offenses are doing much more with way less at WR. Take notes.

Corner is a top 3 position in today's NFL. Those guys are really hard to find (especially if you're the dolphins) and you can tell by the contracts they've been signing. If the dolphins **** around and wait another year until X has priced himself out of Miami and they have to let him walk (worst possible scenario ... inexcusable) or trade him for a bag of dicks because everyone and their mom can see the writing on the wall ... then that will be exactly what this team deserves by promoting Grier. You want more of the same? You got it.
 
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I also see similarities, which scare me based on this team's superhuman ability to make the wrong decision.

The fins should've given Jarvis $11M after year 3 ... like people who know what they are talking about were clamoring for. They waited, got backed up against a wall and got a terrible return on their investment, which had since increased in value. Plus their moneyball wall of replacing him didn't work out nor will the pick they used to replace him. Just like I predicted, this turned to be the worst possible scenario of outcomes and people here still try to give this blind team props for 'doing the right thing'. Impressive.

But WR is different. Much easier to find. It's like RB now with how easy it is to be a WR. They can't touch you ... just run good routes and don't fall down when a defender breathes on you too hard. Dime a dozen. Don't spend top resources unless you see generational talent. I wouldn't even entertain the idea until round 2. Dynamic offenses are doing much more with way less at WR. Take notes.

Corner is a top 3 position in today's NFL. Those guys are really hard to find (especially if you're the dolphins) and you can tell by the contracts they've been signing. If the dolphins **** around and wait another year until X has priced himself out of Miami and they have to let him walk (worst possible scenario ... inexcusable) or trade him for a bag of dicks because everyone and their mom can see the writing on the wall ... then that will be exactly what this team deserves by promoting Grier. You want more of the same? You got it.

Strike sooner than later I agree.

I ultimately think we keep him. Flores probably likes what he sees and his scheme makes me more encouraged we’ll get our money’s worth out of X.

Far from a sure thing though, which is what I consider Tunsil. I’d sign him yesterday if I could.
 
Strike sooner than later I agree.

I ultimately think we keep him. Flores probably likes what he sees and his scheme makes me more encouraged we’ll get our money’s worth out of X.

Far from a sure thing though, which is what I consider Tunsil. I’d sign him yesterday if I could.


It's a premium position and they'd be stupid to let him go. Receiver isn't *as long as they're capable of reasonably replacing them*.

They won't be big players in free agency and the cap is in semi decent shape even with the Suh (next up ... Tannehill ... then Jones next year) dead money because of the dearth of talent so I'd lock him up now and front load the balls off that contract. Anything less is being reactive.
 
Bob hit the nail on the head.

Pay X now so you dont get backed into a corner. Because signing a top flight corner or even drafting one is almost as rare as a top flight qb

It's a shame Wilson got hurt, he was going to replace Landry's production and we'd all have a better feeling about what may transpire in the coming offseasons
 
I actually think there are similarities between Jarvis and X situations.

A lot of people wanted to pay Jarvis, and there are argument for it. I think he priced himself out based on his abilities and desire to get paid like one typically does in the open market. Similar situation with X. I won't be mad if we let him walk and take a comp pick or trade him, while I'm sure half the board would be furious.
There are definitely some similarities, agreed. But each situation is different. The most glaring case was Jarvis Landry. Looking at the production, he didn't score TD's from one of the few positions where you can generate TD's, so he was clearly not at the top of the WR market. Looking at his position--slot receiver--he was among the leaders there for sure. But, that is a lower priority position than outside receivers, primarily because it tends to not offer TD's and defensive attention. Speed receivers open up play even when they never see the ball, because they stretch the space underneath for those slot receivers, TE's and RB's. They command double-teams from safeties freeing up the RB's to run against 6 or 5 man fronts and generate most of the chunk yardage running plays because after the thin front the DB's are left in space 1v1 with a RB until after he has gained about 10 yards. Slot receivers don't do that because they typically are quick but not fast (like Landry) and their routes are designed to exploit the space created by those fast outside receivers. Those slot receivers are doing it vs. 1 on 1 coverage most of the time. Simply not fair to look at catches and yards and ignore all of the non-stat things the outside receivers are doing. Slot simply isn't as high value of a position as outside receiver.

Olivier Vernon was a pass rusher and that is definitely a premium position. But, Vernon was a developmental project out of the U, and he only really had one breakout season. One year flashes are bigger gambles than they seem, and stats often show that when that one year is a contract year … the chance of being let down increases. While I advocated signing both of those guys to extensions years prior, that wasn't the front office's decision, leaving us with two bad choices--pay an incredibly bad price at market value when the player's stock is at an all time high, or let him walk. Tougher decision, but again, IMHO, we made the right decision. He wasn't worth the money. In both cases, the Dolphins decision was proved to be the correct one. In both cases, it probably would have been more effective if we had signed those guys to extensions earlier, when the money was workable.

Flash forward to today and Xavien Howard. Similar to Olivier Vernon, it is a marquee position and he is a player who only recently came into his own. If we can negotiate a reasonable extension now, I definitely think we should do it, because finding dominant CB's who produce takeaways is extremely tough. Finding ones that do it without a fierce pass rush is even harder. IMHO, no 1st round pick is going to compensate us for the loss of a top young CB1. But, this is happening in a year we are tanking and if we fail at tanking will need next year's draft picks to move up and get our franchise QB. Without that QB, I have little faith our rebuild will be successful. Also … I'm tired of watching the Dolphins suck on offense, it's not as fun. But I digress, back to X. He is still on his rookie contract, so worst case scenario he wants to be paid top dollar, we still have the option of franchising tagging him (who else would we franchise?) which essentially pays him at the level he wants and buys us another season to determine whether he is a flash in the pan or a truly great CB. If he's a flash, we resign him for less or let him walk and get a compensatory 3rd. If he's the real deal, we're back in the same situation. To me that seems like our Plan B if we can't reach a reasonable extension. I see no version of this story where we are as good or better off from a talent standpoint than we would be with Xavien Howard. His position is too important, too hard to find, and generally requires cultivating over multiple years. Trading him is not likely to net us a younger X.

But as you so correctly point out, there is such a thing as too much, and if his agent is dead-set on becoming the highest paid CB in the game, as Landry was dead-set on becoming the highest paid Slot in the game, and Vernon was dead-set on becoming one of the highest paid pass rushers in the game … then we would be making a foolish decision to back up the brinks truck for the guy. We're not a Super Bowl contending team and he is not the piece that gets us there. We're in full rebuild mode with a one year hiatus for tanking. So, if we need to trade him, even though it is a net-loss of value … it's a good time to do it, and it's not the worst decision in the world. At least the first year of being without X will not be a problem … since we're tanking anyway. But, it makes sense to keep the negotiations open, franchise tag him if we must, and then if we still can't do business, part ways then. At least, that's how I see it.
 
There are definitely some similarities, agreed. But each situation is different. The most glaring case was Jarvis Landry. Looking at the production, he didn't score TD's from one of the few positions where you can generate TD's, so he was clearly not at the top of the WR market. Looking at his position--slot receiver--he was among the leaders there for sure. But, that is a lower priority position than outside receivers, primarily because it tends to not offer TD's and defensive attention. Speed receivers open up play even when they never see the ball, because they stretch the space underneath for those slot receivers, TE's and RB's. They command double-teams from safeties freeing up the RB's to run against 6 or 5 man fronts and generate most of the chunk yardage running plays because after the thin front the DB's are left in space 1v1 with a RB until after he has gained about 10 yards. Slot receivers don't do that because they typically are quick but not fast (like Landry) and their routes are designed to exploit the space created by those fast outside receivers. Those slot receivers are doing it vs. 1 on 1 coverage most of the time. Simply not fair to look at catches and yards and ignore all of the non-stat things the outside receivers are doing. Slot simply isn't as high value of a position as outside receiver.

Olivier Vernon was a pass rusher and that is definitely a premium position. But, Vernon was a developmental project out of the U, and he only really had one breakout season. One year flashes are bigger gambles than they seem, and stats often show that when that one year is a contract year … the chance of being let down increases. While I advocated signing both of those guys to extensions years prior, that wasn't the front office's decision, leaving us with two bad choices--pay an incredibly bad price at market value when the player's stock is at an all time high, or let him walk. Tougher decision, but again, IMHO, we made the right decision. He wasn't worth the money. In both cases, the Dolphins decision was proved to be the correct one. In both cases, it probably would have been more effective if we had signed those guys to extensions earlier, when the money was workable.

Flash forward to today and Xavien Howard. Similar to Olivier Vernon, it is a marquee position and he is a player who only recently came into his own. If we can negotiate a reasonable extension now, I definitely think we should do it, because finding dominant CB's who produce takeaways is extremely tough. Finding ones that do it without a fierce pass rush is even harder. IMHO, no 1st round pick is going to compensate us for the loss of a top young CB1. But, this is happening in a year we are tanking and if we fail at tanking will need next year's draft picks to move up and get our franchise QB. Without that QB, I have little faith our rebuild will be successful. Also … I'm tired of watching the Dolphins suck on offense, it's not as fun. But I digress, back to X. He is still on his rookie contract, so worst case scenario he wants to be paid top dollar, we still have the option of franchising tagging him (who else would we franchise?) which essentially pays him at the level he wants and buys us another season to determine whether he is a flash in the pan or a truly great CB. If he's a flash, we resign him for less or let him walk and get a compensatory 3rd. If he's the real deal, we're back in the same situation. To me that seems like our Plan B if we can't reach a reasonable extension. I see no version of this story where we are as good or better off from a talent standpoint than we would be with Xavien Howard. His position is too important, too hard to find, and generally requires cultivating over multiple years. Trading him is not likely to net us a younger X.

But as you so correctly point out, there is such a thing as too much, and if his agent is dead-set on becoming the highest paid CB in the game, as Landry was dead-set on becoming the highest paid Slot in the game, and Vernon was dead-set on becoming one of the highest paid pass rushers in the game … then we would be making a foolish decision to back up the brinks truck for the guy. We're not a Super Bowl contending team and he is not the piece that gets us there. We're in full rebuild mode with a one year hiatus for tanking. So, if we need to trade him, even though it is a net-loss of value … it's a good time to do it, and it's not the worst decision in the world. At least the first year of being without X will not be a problem … since we're tanking anyway. But, it makes sense to keep the negotiations open, franchise tag him if we must, and then if we still can't do business, part ways then. At least, that's how I see it.

I agree on all counts. Jarvis is a much less valuable position beyond a WR but a WR lacking elite physical tools.

To X’s defense he has them.

If we franchise him, we better damn well not fall on our face. Because you want a player who’s going to buy into the vision of a Lombardi not just a paycheck. If he doesn’t see that here (and if I was a player I’d consider the same approach) I’d be less negotiable. Period. Say what you want about the Pats but every time a player got signed there it was “because he wanted to win” meanwhile whenever we sign a player it’s because he wanted to get paid. The only way we’ll ever flip that equation is if we start winning.

I actually have faith this ends up well because of our new staff. I didn’t feel that way with Landry. Mainly because Gase was an ass.
 
I agree on all counts. Jarvis is a much less valuable position beyond a WR but a WR lacking elite physical tools.

To X’s defense he has them.

If we franchise him, we better damn well not fall on our face. Because you want a player who’s going to buy into the vision of a Lombardi not just a paycheck. If he doesn’t see that here (and if I was a player I’d consider the same approach) I’d be less negotiable. Period. Say what you want about the Pats but every time a player got signed there it was “because he wanted to win” meanwhile whenever we sign a player it’s because he wanted to get paid. The only way we’ll ever flip that equation is if we start winning.

I actually have faith this ends up well because of our new staff. I didn’t feel that way with Landry. Mainly because Gase was an ***.
At this point, if we tank, I'm confident that it will not be a surprise to X. How he feels about that … I have no idea. But he has no say in it until AFTER we tank. If we're rebounding, he may be inclined to stay for the rebuild. But … who knows.
 
I actually think there are similarities between Jarvis and X situations.

A lot of people wanted to pay Jarvis, and there are argument for it. I think he priced himself out based on his abilities and desire to get paid like one typically does in the open market. Similar situation with X. I won't be mad if we let him walk and take a comp pick or trade him, while I'm sure half the board would be furious.

The biggest difference? One's knocking on the door to being one of the best young players at his position, and the other wasn't.
 
Honestly I don't even know. We said rebuild right? Any guesses on the length of that? Do we trade him for a first round, tank and go two first rounders at least? It's a pretty unique situation, but I'm of the mindset to pay him and keep him in Miami ... forever.

All depends on the demands I guess.
 
If Miami intends to re-sign him, it should be now instead of later. Waiting another season for the cap to go up even more and more corners getting paid only means his demands will go up.

If we wait until 2020 he could get very close to 19 or 20 mil a season
Yes please! Can we just be smart with one of our great homegrown player for one damn minute? Finally. Please?
 
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...p-crunch-could-claim-some-recognizable-names/

Appearing on Wednesday’s PFT Live, Vikings radio voice Paul Allen speculated on some of the established players who could become former Vikings.

Paul Allen mentioned players like defensive end Everson Griffen, linebacker Anthony Barr (who is due to become a free agent), and cornerback Xavier Rhodes. Yes, cornerback Xavier Rhodes.

https://vikingswire.usatoday.com/20...odes-tweets-back-at-rumor-he-could-be-traded/

If Rhodes is in trade conversations, though, it would have to do more with his contract than anything.

Rhodes is set to be the ninth-highest paid corner in 2019 with $10.9 million. He’s due $10.5 million in 2020, $11.7 million in 2021 and $13.8 million in 2022, although the Vikings could release him after the 2021 season with no penalty.
 
Agreed. If you have a young elite LT, and you're rebuilding behind a young (rookie) QB in 2020, you need to keep that LT.
But, if we draft Tua next year, Tunsil loses value, because he is left handed. We need a premier Right Tackle at that point.

That would probably net us 2 first round picks to trade Tunsil next year, as long as he progresses.

I am in no way advocating for us to do that. I’m just saying, if you want “Tank for Tua!”, be ready to trade Tunsil for lots of goodies.
 
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