05 phins versus 01 phins? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

05 phins versus 01 phins?

TARHEEL38 said:
It is amazing that so few people see the Fielder factor. He knew what had to be done to win games especially in the schme when we were running back then. Most would agree with eveything in the post about us being better at most positions, yet they can't see the Jay had a lot to do with our record.
Don't get me wrong, I know we had to upgrade the QB position, but he knew how to use what he had to get the most out of the team. He had more heart than any QB I can remember. He was a true winner. Maybe he did not have the talent some had, but he knew what it took to win, and was willing to do anything to get it done.
I have come to hate AJ, not b/c of what he is, but to some how even the score for all those fools who gave Jay such a hard time. I guess I have sunk to their level. I really do wish him the best as a Jet, and will find myself pulling for him if he gets in vs us, just to show all those Jay haters how wrong they were.
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I wouldnt go as far as saying that fiedlier had more heard that any QB you can remember. Fiedler played up to his abilities which i applaud him for but MARINO had the heart of a champion. Marino is all i have to say
 
fitskin said:
2000 Dolphins v.s. 2005 Dolphins
Its not the 2001 but 2000 is close enough. Here is my opinion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the 2000 Dolphins went 11-5 and won the division, I have no doubt that we can do the same this year. Here is why:

Quarterbacks: Jay Fielder v.s A.J. Feely and Gus Ferrotte. Even if our starter only has an average year it will still be better than Jay's 2000 year 57.1 PCT, 2402 YDS, 14 TDs and 14 INTs. Whoever starts in Linehans offense will have a productive year, probably just a little better than the one Jay had in 2000. Advantage: 2005

Runningbacks: Lamar Smith v.s. Ronnie Brown and (Ricky Williams???). The answer to this question goes without saying. Brown is better than Smith (309 att, 1139 yds, 14tds) and Brown and Williams are better than any tandem in the league.
Advantage: 2005

Receivers/Tight Ends: Hunter Goodwin and Jed Weaver combined for 16 Rec, 215 yds and 1 td. McMicheal will have that after week 2. Orande Gadsden, Tony Martin, and Leslie Shepard were the 3 main targets for Jay. Chambers, Booker, Boston, and Thompson are much better receivers and I do not need to say anything more about this.
Advantage: 2005

Offensive Line: I am not sure how good our o-line will be this year, I feel that they will be in the middle of the pack somewhere. (Nowhere near as bad as they were last season.) In 2000 we had a pretty solid unit. Webb, Wade, Donnalley, Dixon, Ruddy. I'm not sure if we will be as good as we were in 2000. This is a toss-up.
Advantage: Push

Defensive Line: Trace Armstrong, Jason Taylor, Kenny Mixon, Tim Bowens, and Daryl Gardener were a pretty strong unit. I could make a case for Taylor, Carter, Bowens, and Chester but Bowens and Chester are big ??????.
Advantage: 2000

Linebackers: Zach Thomas had a pro bowl year, but Derrick Rodgers and Robert Jones were only average. I feel that Zach, and whoever else starts will be very comparable to the 2000 unit.
Advantage: Push

Defensive Backs: Madison and Surtain in their prime's and a younger Marion with a decent SS in Walker. The 2005 d-backs won't hold a candle to the 2000 squad.
Advantage: 2000

Coaching: I don't care what anyone says. I think Nick Saban is nothing short of a god. He does everything right and I can see a "coach of the year" in this guys future. I have a really good feeling about him and I feel that he does everything better than Wanny. Not to mention we have the best assistant coaching staff in the league.
Advantage: 2005

As you can see the 2005 squad wins in 4 categories, loses in 2 and ties in 2.
Let me know if you disagree on any of the positions and also if you do not think that this years team is better than 2000's. It's going to be a fun year.

11-5 and a wild-card spot in the playoffs.
Click to expand...

Good anaylisis! Your getting ahead of yourself with us going to the playoffs,
Wishful thinking though.
 
Good post, but I see things a little differently...

First of all, the linebackers in 2000 were better than we will see from the position this year. Zach was in his prime in 2000, and he isnt about to put up a season like that this year. With the rest of our LB's, they are either too young(Crowder/Pope) or too old (Seau) to make up for the different Zach. I would give the 2000 squad the edge.

The D is the main difference between these two teams. We are going with a whole new scheme, and its going to take time for our front 7 to gell. Saban is adding some very nice pieces to it, but I just think we are a year away. Plus, our secondary is lacking big time this year IMO. Tebucky Jones is a solid starter, and Madison is Madison, but other than that we are weak in the secondary.

11-5 is very optimistic, especially considering our scheduele and the strength of the AFC East. I see us as an 8-8 team this year, and NEXT year we will return to the playoffs. However, if Ricky comes back in good shape, and I think thats a bigger if than most people are assuming right now, that changes everything. A Ricky/Ronnie backfield would be downright scary and might be able to propel us into the playoffs this year.
 
TARHEEL38 said:
It is amazing that so few people see the Fielder factor. He knew what had to be done to win games especially in the schme when we were running back then. Most would agree with eveything in the post about us being better at most positions, yet they can't see the Jay had a lot to do with our record.
Don't get me wrong, I know we had to upgrade the QB position, but he knew how to use what he had to get the most out of the team. He had more heart than any QB I can remember. He was a true winner. Maybe he did not have the talent some had, but he knew what it took to win, and was willing to do anything to get it done.
I have come to hate AJ, not b/c of what he is, but to some how even the score for all those fools who gave Jay such a hard time. I guess I have sunk to their level. I really do wish him the best as a Jet, and will find myself pulling for him if he gets in vs us, just to show all those Jay haters how wrong they were.
Click to expand...

Goodness man, you have got to be freaking kidding!!!!!!!!

To say your willing to see this team get beat by a certain player is mutiny.

NOW WALK THE PLANK!!!

Jay was nothing more than an average Qb, with very limited throwing ability. The team lost more games "because of him", than they ever won "because of him".
 
The 2005 team looses in the two most important categories though o-line and d-line. Those two areas are the ones that cover / offset mistakes.
 
You make a good point Moo, but the 05 O-line has Houck as a coach! This makes it a push. The 00 D-line was more stout, but Saban is not running the tradional 4-3 that Jimmy ran. In that defense, Dline had to be strong at the point of attack. In a Hybrid 4-3 / 3-4 you don't nee to big guys in the middle.
 
fitskin said:
2000 Dolphins v.s. 2005 Dolphins
Its not the 2001 but 2000 is close enough. Here is my opinion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the 2000 Dolphins went 11-5 and won the division, I have no doubt that we can do the same this year. Here is why:

Quarterbacks: Jay Fielder v.s A.J. Feely and Gus Ferrotte. Even if our starter only has an average year it will still be better than Jay's 2000 year 57.1 PCT, 2402 YDS, 14 TDs and 14 INTs. Whoever starts in Linehans offense will have a productive year, probably just a little better than the one Jay had in 2000. Advantage: 2005

Runningbacks: Lamar Smith v.s. Ronnie Brown and (Ricky Williams???). The answer to this question goes without saying. Brown is better than Smith (309 att, 1139 yds, 14tds) and Brown and Williams are better than any tandem in the league.
Advantage: 2005

Receivers/Tight Ends: Hunter Goodwin and Jed Weaver combined for 16 Rec, 215 yds and 1 td. McMicheal will have that after week 2. Orande Gadsden, Tony Martin, and Leslie Shepard were the 3 main targets for Jay. Chambers, Booker, Boston, and Thompson are much better receivers and I do not need to say anything more about this.
Advantage: 2005

Offensive Line: I am not sure how good our o-line will be this year, I feel that they will be in the middle of the pack somewhere. (Nowhere near as bad as they were last season.) In 2000 we had a pretty solid unit. Webb, Wade, Donnalley, Dixon, Ruddy. I'm not sure if we will be as good as we were in 2000. This is a toss-up.
Advantage: Push

Defensive Line: Trace Armstrong, Jason Taylor, Kenny Mixon, Tim Bowens, and Daryl Gardener were a pretty strong unit. I could make a case for Taylor, Carter, Bowens, and Chester but Bowens and Chester are big ??????.
Advantage: 2000

Linebackers: Zach Thomas had a pro bowl year, but Derrick Rodgers and Robert Jones were only average. I feel that Zach, and whoever else starts will be very comparable to the 2000 unit.
Advantage: Push

Defensive Backs: Madison and Surtain in their prime's and a younger Marion with a decent SS in Walker. The 2005 d-backs won't hold a candle to the 2000 squad.
Advantage: 2000

Coaching: I don't care what anyone says. I think Nick Saban is nothing short of a god. He does everything right and I can see a "coach of the year" in this guys future. I have a really good feeling about him and I feel that he does everything better than Wanny. Not to mention we have the best assistant coaching staff in the league.
Advantage: 2005

As you can see the 2005 squad wins in 4 categories, loses in 2 and ties in 2.
Let me know if you disagree on any of the positions and also if you do not think that this years team is better than 2000's. It's going to be a fun year.

11-5 and a wild-card spot in the playoffs.
Click to expand...
Good post. The only thing I would like to add in, is that the competition (especially being in the AFC) this year is going to be tough like always in my honest opinion. I think a 11-5 is a bit of a stretch, but I want to BELIEVE! :rawk:
 
fitskin said:
2000 Dolphins v.s. 2005 Dolphins
Its not the 2001 but 2000 is close enough. Here is my opinion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the 2000 Dolphins went 11-5 and won the division, I have no doubt that we can do the same this year. Here is why:

Quarterbacks: Jay Fielder v.s A.J. Feely and Gus Ferrotte. Even if our starter only has an average year it will still be better than Jay's 2000 year 57.1 PCT, 2402 YDS, 14 TDs and 14 INTs. Whoever starts in Linehans offense will have a productive year, probably just a little better than the one Jay had in 2000. Advantage: 2005

Runningbacks: Lamar Smith v.s. Ronnie Brown and (Ricky Williams???). The answer to this question goes without saying. Brown is better than Smith (309 att, 1139 yds, 14tds) and Brown and Williams are better than any tandem in the league.
Advantage: 2005

Receivers/Tight Ends: Hunter Goodwin and Jed Weaver combined for 16 Rec, 215 yds and 1 td. McMicheal will have that after week 2. Orande Gadsden, Tony Martin, and Leslie Shepard were the 3 main targets for Jay. Chambers, Booker, Boston, and Thompson are much better receivers and I do not need to say anything more about this.
Advantage: 2005

Offensive Line: I am not sure how good our o-line will be this year, I feel that they will be in the middle of the pack somewhere. (Nowhere near as bad as they were last season.) In 2000 we had a pretty solid unit. Webb, Wade, Donnalley, Dixon, Ruddy. I'm not sure if we will be as good as we were in 2000. This is a toss-up.
Advantage: Push

Defensive Line: Trace Armstrong, Jason Taylor, Kenny Mixon, Tim Bowens, and Daryl Gardener were a pretty strong unit. I could make a case for Taylor, Carter, Bowens, and Chester but Bowens and Chester are big ??????.
Advantage: 2000

Linebackers: Zach Thomas had a pro bowl year, but Derrick Rodgers and Robert Jones were only average. I feel that Zach, and whoever else starts will be very comparable to the 2000 unit.
Advantage: Push

Defensive Backs: Madison and Surtain in their prime's and a younger Marion with a decent SS in Walker. The 2005 d-backs won't hold a candle to the 2000 squad.
Advantage: 2000

Coaching: I don't care what anyone says. I think Nick Saban is nothing short of a god. He does everything right and I can see a "coach of the year" in this guys future. I have a really good feeling about him and I feel that he does everything better than Wanny. Not to mention we have the best assistant coaching staff in the league.
Advantage: 2005

As you can see the 2005 squad wins in 4 categories, loses in 2 and ties in 2.
Let me know if you disagree on any of the positions and also if you do not think that this years team is better than 2000's. It's going to be a fun year.

11-5 and a wild-card spot in the playoffs.
Click to expand...

Good Post. I have trouble seeing two of your conclusions though. At linebacker I can't see how 2005 doesn't win out. Thomas is Thomas but compare Jones and Rodgers from 2000 to Seau, Spragan, and Crowder plus a little depth behind them with moore and pope....and I think 2005's group is clearly better. ALso, I think that you have to give the nod to 2000's O-line which you described as solid....this year's line we all hope is solid, but hope is all we got this year. Time will tell but we can't reasonably expect them to be a strong unit until we see it on the field as it is the same group of guys as last year for the most part.....granted we have added more depth though.

Also, on the Dline, I like our Ends better in 2005 but I agree the edge in the middle of the line goes to 2000.

The question is are the advantages at TE and WR and possible RB and LB and of course COACHING, going to outweigh the losses at DB, Safety, DT and possible Oline. The other factor is building confidence...we had built that by the 2000-01 seasons but this year we have a lot to overcome with a 4-12 season under our belt.

In conclusion, I can't see us at 11-5....but mabe 9 and 7.

:D
 
fitskin said:
2000 Dolphins v.s. 2005 Dolphins
Its not the 2001 but 2000 is close enough. Here is my opinion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the 2000 Dolphins went 11-5 and won the division, I have no doubt that we can do the same this year. Here is why:

Quarterbacks: Jay Fielder v.s A.J. Feely and Gus Ferrotte. Even if our starter only has an average year it will still be better than Jay's 2000 year 57.1 PCT, 2402 YDS, 14 TDs and 14 INTs. Whoever starts in Linehans offense will have a productive year, probably just a little better than the one Jay had in 2000. Advantage: 2005

Runningbacks: Lamar Smith v.s. Ronnie Brown and (Ricky Williams???). The answer to this question goes without saying. Brown is better than Smith (309 att, 1139 yds, 14tds) and Brown and Williams are better than any tandem in the league.
Advantage: 2005

Receivers/Tight Ends: Hunter Goodwin and Jed Weaver combined for 16 Rec, 215 yds and 1 td. McMicheal will have that after week 2. Orande Gadsden, Tony Martin, and Leslie Shepard were the 3 main targets for Jay. Chambers, Booker, Boston, and Thompson are much better receivers and I do not need to say anything more about this.
Advantage: 2005

Offensive Line: I am not sure how good our o-line will be this year, I feel that they will be in the middle of the pack somewhere. (Nowhere near as bad as they were last season.) In 2000 we had a pretty solid unit. Webb, Wade, Donnalley, Dixon, Ruddy. I'm not sure if we will be as good as we were in 2000. This is a toss-up.
Advantage: Push

Defensive Line: Trace Armstrong, Jason Taylor, Kenny Mixon, Tim Bowens, and Daryl Gardener were a pretty strong unit. I could make a case for Taylor, Carter, Bowens, and Chester but Bowens and Chester are big ??????.
Advantage: 2000

Linebackers: Zach Thomas had a pro bowl year, but Derrick Rodgers and Robert Jones were only average. I feel that Zach, and whoever else starts will be very comparable to the 2000 unit.
Advantage: Push

Defensive Backs: Madison and Surtain in their prime's and a younger Marion with a decent SS in Walker. The 2005 d-backs won't hold a candle to the 2000 squad.
Advantage: 2000

Coaching: I don't care what anyone says. I think Nick Saban is nothing short of a god. He does everything right and I can see a "coach of the year" in this guys future. I have a really good feeling about him and I feel that he does everything better than Wanny. Not to mention we have the best assistant coaching staff in the league.
Advantage: 2005

As you can see the 2005 squad wins in 4 categories, loses in 2 and ties in 2.
Let me know if you disagree on any of the positions and also if you do not think that this years team is better than 2000's. It's going to be a fun year.

11-5 and a wild-card spot in the playoffs.
Click to expand...

Here's the biggest preoblem with any of this thinking. In 2000 Buffalo sucked, New England sucked, the Jets, even though they swept us, weren't that good and the Colts were OK but we owned them back then. We won the division more becuase of inferior competion then the fact that we had a great team.

In 2005 New England is a dynasty, Buffalo will threaten to make the playoffs, but fall short again and the Jets will probably be as good as they were last ye4ar or improve.

Some of you guys will not like this but the level of competition is much different.
 
I know I keep repeating myself, but, I still say I want to wait until we're halfway through training camp to give my opinion on this years team. There is still a pretty good chance of adding/cutting some players. We need to see if this info about Ricky is true or if it turns out to be a bunch of smoke.. how TBo and Chester pan out and if we sign Traylor... Not to mention injuries... hopefully we won't have any of the (David Boston, Todd Perry, Yatil Green) type training camp injuries.. If Boston can return to form, Ricky DOES come back, and this oline does improve, then our offense will make up alot for what if anything our Defense lacks.. however, this defense is going to be special IMO... I give them 1/4 way into the season to really grasp Nick's scheme's and I think we'll be shutting down Offenses cold.. With Boston, Chambers, Booker, McMichael, and a possible ricky and ronnie tandum.. our O-Line and QB have a lot more room for error..
 
Disagree on linebackers.

Jones was AVG but Rogers was so undsiciplined he was below average. I think Crowder and Seau are better and so is Pope for that matter. With Spragan and Moore we have even more depth.
 
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