16-year-old Scout Evaluates Dion Jordan

[truedolfan57]

I mean, you can compare Dion Jordan to a crappy player with about the same amount of measurables, or a great player, with close to the same measurables. IE Jason Taylor...

 

[ckparrothead]

Scout is the closest one word description to what I am. This upcoming draft is the 5th one of scouted. I always try to be extremely well informed, but there are two things I can never evaluate like a scout: character (I've never met Jordan, don't know very much about him as a person, and I don't claim to), and injury issues (I'm not a doctor, and I have no idea how a player will return from injuries). That being said, I watch tons of film and know a fair amount about the game.

A scout is a professional. It is a profession. You don't call yourself a doctor because you watch a lot of medical shows or read a lot of medical books. There's dues to be paid. You can call yourself whatever you want. This is just my perspective on it. Don't expect me to refer to you as a scout, and I don't mean any offense by that.

 

[mackenzie45220]

I honestly don't mind if anyone sees Dion Jordan as just another Jarvis Moss, or if they're just not buying him as a strong draft prospect.

But I do think some of the particulars are a bit off. When someone tries to claim 34 inch arm length is something to criticize in Jordan, that starts to cross over from opinion to just incorrect detail.

It's all relative. It's hard to deny that 33 7/8 inches is on the short side for a guy who is 6'6. I gave you the average arm length for guys who are 6'6 at the last combine, and Jordan fell below. If he was short enough to get great leverage, then I would be happy with that arm length

 

[AFCMiamiEast]

one huge difference, they aren't the same person...

Bingo.

 

[WVDolphan]

A scout is a professional. It is a profession. You don't call yourself a doctor because you watch a lot of medical shows or read a lot of medical books. There's dues to be paid. You can call yourself whatever you want. This is just my perspective on it. Don't expect me to refer to you as a scout, and I don't mean any offense by that.

Well its not as if we cant be liberal with terms around these parts..........

gu·ru
[goor-oo, goo-roo] Show IPA
noun
1.
Hinduism. a preceptor giving personal religious instruction.
2.
an intellectual or spiritual guide or leader.
3.
any person who counsels or advises; mentor: The elder senator was her political guru.
4.
a leader in a particular field: the city's cultural gurus.

 

[uk_dolfan]

I mean, you can compare Dion Jordan to a crappy player with about the same amount of measurables, or a great player, with close to the same measurables. IE Jason Taylor...

Forget that garbage comparison, I want to know how he compares to Devon Bess, but nobody seems to care. I mean look at the WPA Bess had last season, what sort of "scout" wouldn't make that comparison?

 

[truedolfan57]

It's all relative. It's hard to deny that 33 7/8 inches is on the short side for a guy who is 6'6. I gave you the average arm length for guys who are 6'6 at the last combine, and Jordan fell below. If he was short enough to get great leverage, then I would be happy with that arm length

question, if you know the answer...of all the 6'6" players with average to above average arm length, how many were better than the players with below average arm length? meaning, were the players with longer arms always better than the ones with shorter arms?

 

[WVDolphan]

The scout Jamboree took place just a few miles from my home this past week and ended yesterday. Ive seen enough scouts to last a while.

 

[mackenzie45220]

"The low man wins in football" is an axiom that does not apply the way you think it does. The NFL likes big players. Otherwise the NFL would be selecting for short players. They're not. They like tall players with good pad level. Dion Jordan is tall, with long arms (34 inches is long, regardless of what you think), and the NFL loves that.

When NFL scouts and coaches praise a player's "length" they are not just talking about his arm length. They're talking about his height. Height can make you harder to block in pass rush. Shorter guys can get pushed to the ground.

But you go ahead and find me the scout that says Dion Jordan's body dimensions are a negative.

I've always said that Warren Sapp wouldn't have been a hall of famer if he was 6'4. Same goes for the modern day Warren Sapp, Geno Atkins. Those two use their lack of height and incredible quickness to get ridiculously good initial position and attack the quarterback. Dwight Freeney is another guy who wouldn't have been great if he was taller. But those guys get so low that it's almost impossible to touch the front of their pads.

 

[RockyMtnPhinfan]

I trust Kevin Coyle much more. Ross said after the draft, when he asked his staff repeatedly who they thought would be a steal at #3 nearly his entire staff agreed Dion Jordan was the one.

 

[ckparrothead]

Well its not as if we cant be liberal with terms around these parts..........

For one thing, I never claimed that title or asked for it for myself. Various message boards have given it to me and it was they who thought of the name of the title/badge/whatever.

For another, "guru" is not a profession. The closest to there being a "guru" profession is certain people at the top of certain religious sects. There are very few real gurus that would look at the word and take legitimate offense to the word being applied to someone who just knows a lot about something. It's a subjective label, and its definitions are all across the board...which you just demonstrated by quoting the definitions. It's become a colloquialism.

The term "scout" is not a colloquialism any more than "fireman" or "cop". It's a profession.

 

[Vaark]

You seem like a nice kid... so a word to the wise:

not a great idea no matter how full of yourself you might be, to come into the largest forum of the team that leapfrogged over a bunch of other teams with Jordan on their radar to inform us at the outset of TC that by trading up, our front office and professional scouts made a costly mistake based on your looking at film in between home economics and geometry classes.

Now I don't know if you've reached puberty yet (if not it's well worth waiting for), but if so, why don't you just grab some vaseline, a few photos of Selena Gomez and Miley Cyrus, and put your time to more productive,, satisfying use than trying to give us cognitive dissonance for the sake of stoking your own adolescent ego. :up:

 

[ckparrothead]

I've always said that Warren Sapp wouldn't have been a hall of famer if he was 6'4. Same goes for the modern day Warren Sapp, Geno Atkins. Those two use their lack of height and incredible quickness to get ridiculously good initial position and attack the quarterback. Dwight Freeney is another guy who wouldn't have been great if he was taller. But those guys get so low that it's almost impossible to touch the front of their pads.

Don't you think this qualifies as spectral evidence, at best?

You're using totally hypothetical and unprovable if-then assumptions as evidence of your position.

You talk about Warren Sapp and Geno Atkins. They're great players. Great players can come in different shapes and sizes. Kevin Williams is a full 6'5" and in his heyday he was about as good as I've seen at that same position as Sapp and Atkins. He averaged 7 sacks a year while he was under 30 years old.

 

[truedolfan57]

 

[Tannchise]

didn't we take Jordan away from Philly at 4?