16-year-old Scout Evaluates Dion Jordan

[Phindog]

Doesn't matter whether you are 16 year old fan who watches lots of film and analyzes players or a high paid talent evaluator who cut Cam Wake from the Giants organization and roster, you cant measure heart or whats in a players head.

 

[ckparrothead]

Strongly disagree. Plus he wasn't "surprisingly effective, by the numbers." You do realize he had 5 sacks last year? And they came againt Tennessee Tech, Arizona State, Washington State, and Fresno State?

I'm well aware of his numbers. Probably more so than you. Sacks are not the end-all or the be-all or even the most important measure. Pressures matter. So do snap counts, which is what you're not accounting for seemingly at all. Dion Jordan spent a lot of snaps out in coverage. He doesn't get dinged for not getting a sack or pressure on a snap where he didn't even rush the passer. He also spent some time hurt, and furthermore if you're familiar with the Oregon defense then you know that they sub out their front seven players a lot more frequently than a lot of teams because it's part of the defensive philosophy that accompanies their offensive "blur" attack. Can't get a sack if you're not on the field, can't get a sack if you're out in coverage. Dion Jordan's pass rush technique is raw but surprisingly efficient.

 

[mackenzie45220]

The low man wins in football! You will not find a scout that believes anything to the contrary! You are taught as a lineman to hit the opposing lineman right underneath their shoulder pads when you engage in a block, then use your legs to drive him back, at least with the bull rush and defending the run. Jordan is too tall to do this effectively. However, height is perceived as an advantage because long arms are an excellent advantage, and there is a correlation between height and arm length. However, Jordan has the arms of a guy who is about 6'4 3/4 inches tall. So his height really simply ends up being a disadvantage as a pass rusher (though it gives him potential as a guy to stop the Gronkowski's of the world in coverage.)

 

[WVDolphan]

I don't know what you wrote here, but I'm not allowed to view links until I write 10 posts

Don't worry. Youre debating CK. You will get there in a few min. And I will run out of popcorn.

---------- Post added at 12:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 PM ----------

The low man wins in football! You will not find a scout that believes anything to the contrary! You are taught as a lineman to hit the opposing lineman right underneath their shoulder pads when you engage in a block, then use your legs to drive him back, at least with the bull rush and defending the run. Jordan is too tall to do this effectively. However, height is perceived as an advantage because long arms are an excellent advantage, and there is a correlation between height and arm length. However, Jordan has the arms of a guy who is about 6'4 3/4 inches tall. So his height really simply ends up being a disadvantage as a pass rusher (though it gives him potential as a guy to stop the Gronkowski's of the world in coverage.)

Low man wins IF low man can get their hands on the other player.

What happens when Jordan blows right by a guy on his way to the QB?

 

[ckparrothead]

The low man wins in football! You will not find a scout that believes anything to the contrary! You are taught as a lineman to hit the opposing lineman right underneath their shoulder pads when you engage in a block, then use your legs to drive him back, at least with the bull rush and defending the run. Jordan is too tall to do this effectively. However, height is perceived as an advantage because long arms are an excellent advantage, and there is a correlation between height and arm length. However, Jordan has the arms of a guy who is about 6'4 3/4 inches tall. So his height really simply ends up being a disadvantage as a pass rusher (though it gives him potential as a guy to stop the Gronkowski's of the world in coverage.)

"The low man wins in football" is an axiom that does not apply the way you think it does. The NFL likes big players. Otherwise the NFL would be selecting for short players. They're not. They like tall players with good pad level. Dion Jordan is tall, with long arms (34 inches is long, regardless of what you think), and the NFL loves that.

When NFL scouts and coaches praise a player's "length" they are not just talking about his arm length. They're talking about his height. Height can make you harder to block in pass rush. Shorter guys can get pushed to the ground.

But you go ahead and find me the scout that says Dion Jordan's body dimensions are a negative.

 

[mackenzie45220]

For one, there are plenty of guys who got more time than Jordan in Oregon's front seven (Taylor Hart). I usually see him subbed out on likely rushing downs, and for good reason. I think it's a bit worrisome that he got subbed out so much. He really got subbed out more than most of Oregon's front 7. Also, that whole coverage thing is entirely overblown. People saw him take like, 6 snaps as a nickelback in the third quarter in I believe the Stanford game (don't even remember), and Jordan defenders acted like he spent half his plays in coverage. I'd say it was about 80% rushing, 20% coverage

 

[uk_dolfan]

They say the low man wins in football.

Don't worry. Youre debating CK. You will get there in a few min. And I will run out of popcorn.

---------- Post added at 12:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 PM ----------



Low man wins IF low man can get their hands on the other player.

What happens when Jordan blows right by a guy on his way to the QB?

I think you will both find that the guy on the team with the most points tends to win, regardless of whether he is low, medium or high.

 

[WVDolphan]

"The low man wins in football" is an axiom that does not apply the way you think it does. The NFL likes big players. Otherwise the NFL would be selecting for short players. They're not. They like tall players with good pad level. Dion Jordan is tall, with long arms (34 inches is long, regardless of what you think), and the NFL loves that.

When NFL scouts and coaches praise a player's "length" they are not just talking about his arm length. They're talking about his height. Height can make you harder to block in pass rush. Shorter guys can get pushed to the ground.

But you go ahead and find me the scout that says Dion Jordan's body dimensions are a negative.

This thread is starting to have the potential to be highly entertaining.

It might help if you typed something I disagreed with.

 

[DZimmer000]

Why on God's green earth has this ****ing thread been revived? Look kid..... If in 3 years Dion Jordan is a total bust with no sacks and is out of the league and you have to shave regularly......Then come back here and tell everyone "I told you so". Until then, to be honest, why would anyone listen to you? And more importantly, why would anyone on this site care about your opinion of the # 3 overall draft pick in this years draft? You're 17...... And I respect that you have an opinion, but your opinion is NOT shared by 95% of NFL scouts. Some of those guys have been scouting football players since you were an itch in your fathers pants.

If you want to be taken seriously on this board, come here with someone you "scouted" that went in the late rounds of the 2010 draft and is now a star. Show us how in depth your scouting knowledge is....... Because I really don't give a **** what some kid writes between his spelling test and recess.

 

[ckparrothead]

For one, there are plenty of guys who got more time than Jordan in Oregon's front seven (Taylor Hart). I usually see him subbed out on likely rushing downs, and for good reason. I think it's a bit worrisome that he got subbed out so much. He really got subbed out more than most of Oregon's front 7. Also, that whole coverage thing is entirely overblown. People saw him take like, 6 snaps as a nickelback in the third quarter in I believe the Stanford game (don't even remember), and Jordan defenders acted like he spent half his plays in coverage. I'd say it was about 80% rushing, 20% coverage

That 20% is a significant figure. It's surprising that you wouldn't recognize it as such. Talking about Dion Jordan in coverage is not a matter of seeing a few snaps in one game. It was a consistent factor in all of his games.

As for Dion Jordan being subbed out more than SOME other guys in the front seven, are we talking about before or after he shredded his shoulder?

 

[mackenzie45220]

Don't worry. Youre debating CK. You will get there in a few min. And I will run out of popcorn.

---------- Post added at 12:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 PM ----------



Low man wins IF low man can get their hands on the other player.

What happens when Jordan blows right by a guy on his way to the QB?

But see, that's the only thing he can do right now as a pass rusher. He's a one trick pony. All an offensive tackle has to do is lengthen his split a bit and get a good kick slide.

 

[WVDolphan]

But see, that's the only thing he can do right now as a pass rusher. He's a one trick pony. All an offensive tackle has to do is lengthen his split a bit and get a good kick slide.

Well that is a helluva trick. Its such a valuable asset that teams were lining up to draft him early. Pass rushing is a premium these days because of how the game is played.

Good luck to those OL lengthening their split a bit and getting a good kick slide. Im betting on them not being able to do that enough times that it makes Dion Jordan a highly effective player for our defense.

 

[ckparrothead]

But see, that's the only thing he can do right now as a pass rusher. He's a one trick pony. All an offensive tackle has to do is lengthen his split a bit and get a good kick slide.

In college, yes. He was too outside-conscious. That's established. Is that going to be the case in the pros as he develops counters? Probably not.

You're too young to remember this but this is starting to sound like conversations I had with folks in 2000 who absurdly argued that Jason Taylor's 2.5 sack season in 1999 proved that he's a one-trick pony, that "the book has been written" on how to block him, and all you have to do is "muscle him".

We'll see how that works out. I think he's a pretty good prospect. Not the #3 overall, but a pretty good prospect for the mid-1st round.

 

[WVDolphan]

Why on God's green earth has this ****ing thread been revived? Look kid..... If in 3 years Dion Jordan is a total bust with no sacks and is out of the league and you have to shave regularly......Then come back here and tell everyone "I told you so". Until then, to be honest, why would anyone listen to you? And more importantly, why would anyone on this site care about your opinion of the # 3 overall draft pick in this years draft? You're 17...... And I respect that you have an opinion, but your opinion is NOT shared by 95% of NFL scouts. Some of those guys have been scouting football players since you were an itch in your fathers pants.

If you want to be taken seriously on this board, come here with someone you "scouted" that went in the late rounds of the 2010 draft and is now a star. Show us how in depth your scouting knowledge is....... Because I really don't give a **** what some kid writes between his spelling test and recess.

A bit harsh don't you think?

The kid is wrong about Dion Jordan, but really does that make him any less qualified than a couple of the other posters who are accepted as "guru" around here?

 

[uk_dolfan]

But see, that's the only thing he can do right now as a pass rusher. He's a one trick pony. All an offensive tackle has to do is lengthen his split a bit and get a good kick slide.

Maybe he could get low and go under his legs? or maybe step over him? Or you know, just run fast past him?

Your the published author though, im just a lowly forum poster .